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2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Originally Posted by wallyp
Does the S600 not have the shiftable transmission like the S430 and S500?
Yes it does.
I've said it before that the engine has peak high pitched sound when it's between 2.5-3K RPM. Redlining it changes the sound and doesn't sound high pitched anymore.
The biggest problem with this platform is it doesn't rev high enough to really get that nice high pitch sound. If we could turn the engine to 7-8k it would sound like a ferrari with the exhaust setup you had.
The car in post #1 sounded high revving, especially with the custom headers.
The exhaust seemed to have a sort of frequency doubling effect.
The car in post #1 sounded high revving, especially with the custom headers.
The exhaust seemed to have a sort of frequency doubling effect.
Nick
Those headers look to be true equal length, which if the firing pattern is properly matched, results in even spaces between cyl events and that awesome racecar sound. There's no way to replicate that without matching the runner length to the collector, otherwise you get overlap and the pulses dilute each other.
So yes to get the retarded wail the original car had would require those headers. Or a good open exhaust on stock headers with a higher redline would do the trick.
I've looked into this a little as the cars are so cheap now, I've contemplated buying one just to do the exhaust and drive around making cool noises in.
Dash looks the same with indicated redline at 6k. I'm sure it's not much different than the biturbo, they weren't using these engines as high-rpm screamers but as velvety smooth luxury powerplants.
I've said it before that the engine has peak high pitched sound when it's between 2.5-3K RPM. Redlining it changes the sound and doesn't sound high pitched anymore.
Interestingly enough, my TTV12 also gets its peak high pitched sound around 2.5-3K RPM. Not as loud as the NA V12, but it still does have that high pitched sound only at around that RPM. After 3K RPM, the noise gets watered down and you hear more engine noise than exhaust noise.
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
So I've been emailing back & forth with the custom header shop the past few months.
In the last E-Mail this is what they said:
If you could take the oem manifolds and tack them together and then get a 2 bolt flange tacked off the manifolds to where the exit should be with plenty of pictures and measurements of the surroundings we should be able to get an equal length headers from that.
So with that, I'm thinking of getting a full set of used OEM headers which is like $200 from eBay, then taking pictures underneath the car of how the headers sit. Also measuring the distance from where they bolt on to how much space they have between block and the engine bay for horizontal clearance. I am not sure about vertical clearance yet.
HOWEVER, my BIGGEST challenge right now is, the 'dual set' of headers in each side compared to TGSASAKIs headers which seems to have one single piece for each side with one collector.
The OEM headers basically have two sets of headers in each side which merge into one collector. With that presents the problem of having TWO primary O2 sensors in each side instead of one.
If I'm making a single piece of header which is to merge to a single collector without splitting, then what would I do with the extra O2 sensor cable. That's just throw things off. Any ideas?
If someone can get a car to me for a few days in Portsmouth NH, I would be willing to make an equal length manifold at cost. Cost is quite variable depending on material and finish options.
Some photos of one I just finished tacking together today for an OM606 build we are doing. Keep in mind that this is just the first step of the fabrication phase. When finished they will be fully TIG welded and then ceramic coated just like the ones posted above. We could also do bare polished stainless which looks pretty cool but ceramic is a better choice if budget allows.: https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...ml#post6921652
That's pretty impressive considering. Certainly a lot better than I could do. Some of those gaps are going to be a pain in the butt to TIG though! Would love it if you post pics of that piece here when it's finished.
That's pretty impressive considering. Certainly a lot better than I could do. Some of those gaps are going to be a pain in the butt to TIG though! Would love it if you post pics of that piece here when it's finished.
Thanks.
Any air gaps you see will be eliminated before TIG welding. TIG filler won;t actually be used to fill the gaps. We will wiggle things around and re-adjust as necessary to mate up the smaller gaps. The larger gaps will be made slightly bigger if possible and we will cut some more piping to fit. The welds will all be single width. It's far easier to move things around a little bit and cut elbows when the manifold is on the bench than it is in the car so we just left them out for the tacking process.
Am I the only one looking at that TGSASAKI manifold and thinking that the exhaust flanges aren't co-planar? See how the shadows differ? Cylinder 2, for example, sits a few mm OFF the table while the rest all show some varying degree of gap between table and flange...that will put some unusual stress on the manifold if it's tightened enough (to the head, which has al the ports in the same plane) to eliminate leaks.
Will they mill the flanges now that it's built up to make them all flat and co-planar?
Am I the only one looking at that TGSASAKI manifold and thinking that the exhaust flanges aren't co-planar? See how the shadows differ? Cylinder 2, for example, sits a few mm OFF the table while the rest all show some varying degree of gap between table and flange...that will put some unusual stress on the manifold if it's tightened enough (to the head, which has al the ports in the same plane) to eliminate leaks.
Will they mill the flanges now that it's built up to make them all flat and co-planar?
Interesting observation. With that much piping and individual flanges I don't think it will be an issue, they should flex right back into place. But it brings up a good point. Most 4 cyl or V6 flanges I have done have to be surfaced to take the warp out if they aren't welded with the flange bolted up on a purpose built water-cooled fixture.
Interesting observation. With that much piping and individual flanges I don't think it will be an issue, they should flex right back into place. But it brings up a good point. Most 4 cyl or V6 flanges I have done have to be surfaced to take the warp out if they aren't welded with the flange bolted up on a purpose built water-cooled fixture.
+1
With individual flanges and super long pipe runs like that header, I would expect a little bit of warping. It should pull flat against the head with no issues. Is it perfect? No. Is it going to cause any problems? No
Zeph, you mentioned having done header flanges before. Did you make them or buy them? A lot of the ones that are pre-made come warped. I always like to make my own flanges to have better control over it. In the photo above we had to use someone else's flange and it was BADLY warped. It can be frustrating dealing with stuff like that. On top of that, like you mentioned, it is very hard to keep them from warping when welding a complex design.
With individual flanges and super long pipe runs like that header, I would expect a little bit of warping. It should pull flat against the head with no issues. Is it perfect? No. Is it going to cause any problems? No
Zeph, you mentioned having done header flanges before. Did you make them or buy them? A lot of the ones that are pre-made come warped. I always like to make my own flanges to have better control over it. In the photo above we had to use someone else's flange and it was BADLY warped. It can be frustrating dealing with stuff like that. On top of that, like you mentioned, it is very hard to keep them from warping when welding a complex design.
I'm an ultra cheap-***. I usually chop the stock flange off and reuse, lol. I don't do for-hire stuff I'm usually just building a shade tree turbo kit or something for a friend. I attempted to get into the production business at one point years ago and had about two dozen flanges CNC'd up for that little venture. They were 1/2" thick and contoured from the oval ports to accept round pipe weld els. They were a dream to work with but I was too early to the party on that particular platform and the interest just wasn't there so I only completed that first set and just sold the rest of the flanges to other individuals/fabricators.
These days, I DO NOT do pretty, lol. I am mostly too impatient for the TIG so I just crank up the MIG and goober something together. Takes about 1/4 the time, lol.
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Today, the car was loaded onto a trailer and is currently on its way to a secret location. It is unknown to the public where it will be...But the phase 'making it happen' has begun....
Today, the car was loaded onto a trailer and is currently on its way to a secret location. It is unknown to the public where it will be...But the phase 'making it happen' has begun....
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Update:
I kinda kept it on the downlow because I wanted things to be in place before I make announcements. But I guess I'll mention them now since things are getting closer.
The car is currently waiting on flanges from the machine shop. The first set weren't a proper fit so they had to be sent back and a new one done. Hopefully the next ones will be a proper fit.
After that, the runners will be measured and put on. Hoping to have it all done on the week of X-mas as long as the flanges come back on time and are proper fit. Can't wait!
(Picture is from when the car was being unloaded to the shop.)
Am I the only one looking at that TGSASAKI manifold and thinking that the exhaust flanges aren't co-planar? See how the shadows differ? Cylinder 2, for example, sits a few mm OFF the table while the rest all show some varying degree of gap between table and flange...that will put some unusual stress on the manifold if it's tightened enough (to the head, which has al the ports in the same plane) to eliminate leaks.
Will they mill the flanges now that it's built up to make them all flat and co-planar?
Those headers have slip fit collectors. So the piping can rotate a bit when installing.
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Latest update:
So the shop has had a few hurdles since my last post. The machine shop they were dealing with kept producing bad quality header flanges that kept warping. So they had to switch to another machine shop that hopefully can produce better quality flanges. Last month when I spoke to the shop, they said it was still in queue from their new machine shop to be fabricated.
The header flanges are the first part of this process. Second part is the measurement, fabrication, and fitment of the headers, which the shop said is the easy part as they use some sort of 3D scanning tool to do the measurements. And they do the header fabrication in house. (Some of you may already know which shop it is by mentioning this...hint hint OM606)
Still waiting for the next part of this process, which should be the fun part...
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Feeling Disappointed
Latest Update:
This has taken a weird turn. The shop I gave the car to for the work to be done hasn't got back to me in over a month. And it's gotten me a bit worried. I usually contact him every month and he gives me status update. But it's been 1 1/2 months since we've been in contact. I left multiple voice mails and multiple text messages. He hasn't returned any.
I hate stuff like this cuz I have too much good faith in humanity especially someone who owns a MB Repair Shop, and is the owner of Overlandchallene.com which is an offroad vehicle challenge portal and exploringnh.com which is about New hampshire outdoor recreation.
So if anyone knows Ryan from W220Repair in Maine, or lives around Kittery, Maine I would appreciate if they can reach out to him. I know he's posted his work here before.
Some suggested I call the local Sheriff but I would really hate to take it to that level if there is something more simple going on rather than ill intent.
07-22-2016, 12:04 PM
