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Well I plan on doing that or at least close to that as possible.
As you also may know, that those manifolds/headers are only made by one exhaust company in Japan and they charge an arm & a leg for it (more that $9K for headers+exhaust). So I contacted a custom header company in the US and they can fabricate v12 headers/manifold for for the M137 motors for $3k. That would be my last step.
Right now, I plan on doing some exhaust work. Unfortunately, I haven't seen much N/A W220 S600 with straight exhaust. There are few videos on Youtube that feature the non Turbo models. The rest are all Twin Turbo models.
TG Sasaki(the ones who make the custom headers in Japan for the M137 S600) at the beginning of this video shows how it sounds with straight pipes and stock manifold.
So I stitched together the following from the original video.
That's the exhaust setup along with the custom manifold that gives it the F1 sound that you hear in the video.
I was trying to copy the exact same setup but Tusabes suggested if you do straight pipes all the way after the first cats, you should get similar sound(Wish you had some exhaust vids of your m120 Tusabes!). So that's what I am going for.
I ordered some dual tips that I will be putting on:
At this stage, I'm thinking what I can do to NOT make the CEL come on due to removing the secondary cats. I also realized the other day that there are FOUR O2 sensors on each side - two before the first cat and two after I believe.
I am wondering if there exists any sort of O2 plugs that would prevent the CEL from going off. I know using the SDS in advanced mode you can turn it off but I'm not there yet in terms of being friends with my local autohaus for them to do that. Just wondering if there are any other options besides leaving the CEL on due to removal of the secondary cats. (FYI, emissions laws are pretty lax where I reside)
That's an interesting product. But as it says on their product page there is no guarantee if it will work.
So the SpeedDriven downpipes for the 03+ S600 states that it won't give any CEL using it. I'm wondering how it's achieved. I don't see anything extra they include like a plug for the O2. Is it by using the same kind of concept as this product? Like by spacing it out?
That's an interesting product. But as it says on their product page there is no guarantee if it will work.
So the SpeedDriven downpipes for the 03+ S600 states that it won't give any CEL using it. I'm wondering how it's achieved. I don't see anything extra they include like a plug for the O2. Is it by using the same kind of concept as this product? Like by spacing it out?
You can buy very nice, very expensive custom-made stainless spacers - or you can buy super-cheap spark plug anti-foulers from most parts stores that do the same thing...
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Originally Posted by wallyp
You can buy very nice, very expensive custom-made stainless spacers - or you can buy super-cheap spark plug anti-foulers from most parts stores that do the same thing...
When you say very expensive spacers are you talking about like $30 vs. those $5 ones?
The right-angle spacers (which aren't stainless after all) are $28 if you aren't on Amazon Prime, and that is for three different pieces, which appear to make only one spacer.
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Originally Posted by wallyp
The right-angle spacers (which aren't stainless after all) are $28 if you aren't on Amazon Prime, and that is for three different pieces, which appear to make only one spacer.
The anti-foulers are $4 for two.
Ok, I see what you mean. I found some 90 degree stainless spacers on Amazon for $25. But for one. So yeah putting two one each side, you're looking at around hundred at least.
There is still that chance it won't work. But it's worth a shot.
I just read on another thread that someone on an 07 S600 had issues where the car went on limp mode due to the O2 sensors. Is that a possibility on the 01? I know on American cars, I think 02 was the cut off point where messing with the cats would make the car go crazy. Is there any similarity with these German machines? Or would there be a chance of that happening to the 01?
I see people with the w140 m120 S600 with catless straight pipes and I think it's running fine. Didn't send it off on a limp mode.
This has to be one of the most amazing threads on MBworld. I've been watching that video on and off forever just wondering when someone with a Merc V12 would give this another go.
I would think it's somewhat critical to get all the pulses into the same pipe at some point or other to get that F1 sound you are after. I don't think headers into straight pipes will have quite the same effect, then you'd have a pair of straight 6s. By merging them you get all the sound waves coming out all of the tailpipes instead of half out of each.
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Originally Posted by AMG3.2
This has to be one of the most amazing threads on MBworld. I've been watching that video on and off forever just wondering when someone with a Merc V12 would give this another go.
Thanks. I appreciate that. That video is what got me hooked. I've always been an exhaust guy. I've owned 4 cyl turbos, V8 cammed muscle cars. And now I wanted to try a V12. And I've always admired the S-class. So this was the final push to try it.
I haven't seen anyone yet whose done this around here - to take the non-Turbo M137 V12 and do the same as that Japanese one. I've watched almost all the videos that exist on Youtube with the S600 V12s. From ones with Meisterschaft, Renntech, Brabus, Lorinser, & MEC Design exhaust. So far the MEC Design on the TT comes close to that F1 sound.
But no one has done it on the non-Turbo models. And I'm not sure if most of the latter companies offer systems for the non-Turbo models except Meisterschaft.
Anyways, time will tell how fast I can get this done. But now I'm just trying to get all the possible help/advice to make this project come to life.
Originally Posted by ZephTheChef
I would think it's somewhat critical to get all the pulses into the same pipe at some point or other to get that F1 sound you are after. I don't think headers into straight pipes will have quite the same effect, then you'd have a pair of straight 6s. By merging them you get all the sound waves coming out all of the tailpipes instead of half out of each.
Thanks for that input. I'd thought that would be the case too but felt someone else suggested I'd do two separate straight pipes. So I think I'll try either an X-pipe which my exhaust shop can fabricate OR get two Y-pipes to merge the two pipes from the headers, then split them again on the rear to dual exhaust.
For some reason, this catless Y-pipe looks very close to what that guy has.
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Update:
Took it to my exhaust shop to have the car lifted and take a closer look at how the current setup is and what I plan on doing to it. Upon closer inspection stumbled on two things:
1. There seems to be some sort of plug after the rear cats.
I am not sure what it's for. Do they send some emissions info back to the car when the car runs in 6cyl? If so, what's the best way to eliminate it?
2. There appears to be 4 cats after the headers. And then another set of cats after the y-pipe merge. Would all four be considered primaries? And the secondary cats are like right under the drivers seat where that other plug I mentioned above sits?
Do you V12 TT guys have 4 cats to deal with in front?
That looks like some sort of vacuum actuated valve. It's probably a restrictor plate/dampener that makes the exhaust quieter when you are at lower throttle positions. No idea if it's factory or not, there is nothing like that on the V12 TT cars (well, there is on mine now, but not from the factory). There should be no problem with eliminating it, just make sure you cap that vacuum line.
The V12 TT only has two cats, one on each side immediately after the turbos. They are right at the back of the engine bay in the downpipes. They have O2 sensors right before them, and then in the middle of the cats themselves. As I understand it, older cars used to have multiple converters in series like that, but as technology has evolved they can now get the emissions within acceptable limits with a single stage so most newer vehicles only have one stage of converter. There are some pics in my cutout thread, but I didn't take any when all the exhaust was on the ground, unfortunately...it's kind of hard to tell what the exhaust looks like as a whole from my pics. But the cutout pipes are essentially where my cats were from the factory. Here is the link to that thread:
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Originally Posted by ZephTheChef
That looks like some sort of vacuum actuated valve. It's probably a restrictor plate/dampener that makes the exhaust quieter when you are at lower throttle positions. No idea if it's factory or not, there is nothing like that on the V12 TT cars (well, there is on mine now, but not from the factory). There should be no problem with eliminating it, just make sure you cap that vacuum line.
The V12 TT only has two cats, one on each side immediately after the turbos. They are right at the back of the engine bay in the downpipes. They have O2 sensors right before them, and then in the middle of the cats themselves. As I understand it, older cars used to have multiple converters in series like that, but as technology has evolved they can now get the emissions within acceptable limits with a single stage so most newer vehicles only have one stage of converter. There are some pics in my cutout thread, but I didn't take any when all the exhaust was on the ground, unfortunately...it's kind of hard to tell what the exhaust looks like as a whole from my pics. But the cutout pipes are essentially where my cats were from the factory. Here is the link to that thread:
Ok good to know. Yeah I knew the TT setup is slightly different and better since it's newer. This setup I have seems quite complicated as you described being an early model. I forgot to take a video of the rest of the exhaust but I'll go underneath it and show how it's set up.
It's like this: Manifolds-->2 cats on each side-->merge into a X-pipe-->Splits to dual pipes-->Then to some dual cats?-->Y pipe to single 3" pipe-->Y-pipe to dual pipes-->Resonator-->muffler-->tail pipe.
I think it's like that. I'll get underneath my car to take a video hopefully tonight.
Yeah, that sounds like a lot of complicated piping. The TTs are basically log manifolds into the turbos, downpipes with cats in them, individual pipes back into a Y about halfway back on the car, a short section where they are together as one pipe, then split back into two pipes that go into resonators then mufflers on each side. The factory piping is bent/squished/all kinds of terrible for clearance purposes. Not sure why though, there is plenty of room for the full round pipe even in the places where they kinked it.
I am confident due to all that less than optimal piping that the cutouts way up front was a good idea as opposed to right before the mufflers like some people have done. I will try to get some more pics undercar of the system as a whole if I can.
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
So I was able to get the full diagram from EPC. Here is how it looks - along with my notes.
As you can see, each side of the catalyst has two converter boxes, then there is another pair after that. I am hoping that number 3 are the secondary cats? If that's the case, it makes it so much easier. Because they are really far from the primary cats. If that's the case then the O2 sensors are really far away from the secondary cats. Unfortunately the parts catalog doesn't list what number 3 is.
Number 4 is where the vacuum actuated valve is located.
I am thinking of cutting off right before number three, using a custom 2.5" Y-pipe into a 3" single. Taking out all up to number 4 including the actuated valve. Then splitting the single 3" into dual 2.5" or even 3". Taking out resonators(number 5) and mufflers(number 6) all the way back into dual 3" tips.
I agree with tusabes. From the looks of it, the factory goes 12-4-2 with essentially 2 x-pipes. If it were me, I would do pretty much exactly what you are planning. Cut it right before the secondary cats, and instead of the stock crimped X, I would put in a nice Y adapter to 3" all the way back...split somewhere near the rear end for two tips. If you could eliminate the front cats as well it would probably be a little more F1-ish.
But to really get that sound, ideally I would think you want every exhaust pulse to have to travel the exact same distance from the head to the exhaust tip so that there are no collisions in the pipes, and the pulses are spaced perfectly evenly. That's where the "equal length headers" come in.
Very curious how it will sound just doing the straight pipes without the headers. I honestly don't know how big of a deal the equal length thing is for sound.
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Originally Posted by tusabes
Yes the primary cats are where number 2 is, the secondary cats are number 3
You can get close to that f1 sound by running straight pipe to replace the secondary and everyting back
Originally Posted by ZephTheChef
I agree with tusabes. From the looks of it, the factory goes 12-4-2 with essentially 2 x-pipes. If it were me, I would do pretty much exactly what you are planning. Cut it right before the secondary cats, and instead of the stock crimped X, I would put in a nice Y adapter to 3" all the way back...split somewhere near the rear end for two tips. If you could eliminate the front cats as well it would probably be a little more F1-ish.
But to really get that sound, ideally I would think you want every exhaust pulse to have to travel the exact same distance from the head to the exhaust tip so that there are no collisions in the pipes, and the pulses are spaced perfectly evenly. That's where the "equal length headers" come in.
Very curious how it will sound just doing the straight pipes without the headers. I honestly don't know how big of a deal the equal length thing is for sound.
HECK YA! Just what I wanted to hear. So then it's a go ahead. I'll follow up with my exhaust shop and get this started very soon.
Your use of the word 'pulse' and the description got my heart racing. lol. I'm quite hyped!
Those front cats are a bit challenge to me right now. Ideally I'd love to remove it. But knowing MB and how everything is tied to the ecu, I'm afraid it'll go in limp mode and not sure if plugging four O2 sensors with those eliminators will be successful. That sounds like a lengthy trial-error. I'll look into that after I get this part of it set up.
From there, depending on how it sounds, I'll target the equal length headers. I mean if I end up doing the headers down the line, I'll have to figure something out for the O2 sensors anyway.
Regarding the difference in sound...well in this video below those TG Sasaki guys demonstrates how it sounds. In the beginning, I'm assuming it's straight pipes but not sure if he already had all the cats removed.
This looks like a really fun project! I am really interested in the results. I have my TT S600 basically fully straight piped (except for the primary cats) and it is still WAY too quiet for what it is.
If this goes as good as it's planned, then I might consider removing the turbos for that sound, I'd say that F1 exhaust note is worth trading in the extra horsepower (and no turbos will get me less speeding tickets too)
04-14-2016, 01:03 PM
(and no turbos will get me less speeding tickets too) 
