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Read the codes. Code for charge air temp too high came back. It can't be the map sensors, because the intercoolers are still boiling hot. Vacuum bleeding will be my last option.
I let the car cool off until this morning, then filled up coolant in the IC filler and kept squeezing the rubber hose feeding into it while the car was off.
The hose on the left without the schrader valve is the one I was squeezing:
A decent amount of air bubbles came out, and I kept filling in more coolant and kept squeezing the hose until there were no more air bubbles and no more coolant was being sucked in. Then I turned on the car and repeated the same process while it was running.
I was following the OP of this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...s600-m275.html
I didn't touch the two schrader valves at all, just like the OP in that thread.
After all that, I was pretty sure there were no more or close to no more air bubbles left. Went for a drive, noticed the car backing off the boost again, came back to garage just too see intercoolers still boiling hot. At this point I was pretty sure that new pump I installed wasn't even working even though I tested it through diagnostics. So my next step was to check the fuse/relay for the pump, and I have noticed something that I've never noticed before. The little fuse box towards the passenger side of the car has 03 S55 written on in in marker, so someone must have replaced that fuse box with one from an S55 at a salvage yard. Are the fuses and relays for an S55k IC pump different from an S600? I think this explains why my pump is working but it never turns on apparently. Does anyone have an 03 S600 who can let me know what are the correct fuses and their order in that little fuse box?
Here are pictures of mine:
Just do the following, its a permanent fix. Put a cable with an 15 amp inline fuse on your empty 12v number 45 in your fuse box (see photo). And solder it on your 12v at your pump. Leave the 12v and ground from the factory in place. So now you have 1 ground as it was and you have 2 cables on the plus. You only do this so the ecu does not throw the code.
Your fuse box with extra cable on 45
Your relay location is W This is the pump relay This is number 45 and has 12v when the car is on. Put there your cable and run to the pump.
Thanks for that info! That seems like a great solution, even better if the pump is working at all times so there's always coolant being circulated throughout the intercoolers rather than just whenever the ECU decides to. I just have a few concerns about it. Is it safe for the pump to constantly be running or will it be prone to break? Won't it be a little too noisy?
Also, do I run the wire from the #45 empty fuse slot to the pump relay, or the pump itself?
My recollection is that the S55 and S600 use the same aux fuse box, but only the V8 uses the third relay - it's for an ECU that the V12 doesn't have.
If you want to be sure the pump is running, you can jump the relay socket, and then you can hear the water circulating.
Regarding bleeding, my view is that unless you're prepared to re-design the IC system, the only way to be sure to get all the air out is to use a rotary vane vacuum pump (as used for AC servicing) in conjunction with a vacuum re-filler.
Dont touch the realy. Just run the line 45 straight to the pump
you wont even hear the pump running. And it really doesnt matter running it at all times. Great upgrade. And your new pump will be fine for many many years to come.
There's a reason the pump doesn't run all the time. The Bosch has a DC motor with commutator and brushes, and it has dynamic seals, unlike newer pumps. They all wear out. The pump will have to be replaced more frequently, but that might be a price worth paying.
Very worth paying. Runs for 5 years straight now and never failed. And pumps are cheap anyway. Especially stock pumps that people have laying around because they upgraded their perfect working oem pumps.
henk, do you have the Bosch 010 pump? With all those crazy mods you've done to your S600 I kind of doubt it lol. If I have the bosch 010 pump running all the time does it guarantee 5 years like you said? It would really be worth it if it does.
Also, won't it be easier to bleed the system without any special vacuum tool now since the pump constantly running and circulating the coolant?
Last edited by AlexMercedes; 05-21-2017 at 04:30 PM.
I had the bosch pump before i started serious mods, and i have it now still working in a box. And yes bleeding air out is much easier when the pump is running with cold coolant.
But i would still advice the overflow reservoir. any extra reservoir would solve the air problem. The problem is getting enough coolant in. Put a small tank next to your pump (there is space enough) would also solve the air problem.
That overflow reservoir with the upgraded cap seems like a really good idea. In combination with the pump running at all times, I think I won't have to worry about the IC system for a long time.
I'll use the willwood reservoir and the upgraded cap just like the people on this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...reservoir.html
I ordered a reservoir for the IC system, new 13 psi filler cap with fill valve, and some mounting hardware. I'll be installing these soon and report back my results. I also want to try the always-running pump mod and see how that goes. Henk, do you mind sharing where you got that long cable with the 15 amp inline fuse you were talking about? Thanks
Yeah just buy an inline fuse in any autoshop. And buy yourself 3 meter of 16awg quality cable. And you can install it. Dont forget the small connector for pin 45. See photo
Ok, so I installed the reservoir. It was very easy, I'm just really surprised why Mercedes didn't do this in the first place. It actually came out very clean and looks factory much to my surprise.
Here are some pictures:
This is with the old radiator cap:
This is with the new cap with the fill valve:
I'll monitor the level of the reservoir every day for the next couple of days and see what happens. I'll also do the always-running pump mod, but for now I'm waiting for the air bubbles to vent out before I do anything.
I used a thin piece of sheet metal and bent it over the top of the firewall to mount it. It's pretty sturdy, no need to drill into anything. The only modification was drilling into the firewall right behind the overflow nipple for the hose. Took less than an hour for the whole thing.
Just thought I'd do a quick update to this thread. Intercooler expansion tank reservoir completely solved any problems the IC system had. That stupid MB design is the reason why many people experience this problem, so the number one thing anyone should ever do when they buy a v12 biturbo is to install an IC expansion reservoir. I looked at the brand new s65 engine recently in a dealership, and noticed MB finally added a reservoir right above where the intercoolers sit! Smart. Now only if they did this earlier. I also noticed they don't use that bull**** $1,200 coil pack the size of a football field anymore. They use normal coils and spark plugs now. This leads to my next issue....
After fixing the boost issue, now I'm having dreaded misfire issues again. Of course. When you fix one issue on this car, another one shows its face. I have a cylinder 10 and 12 misfire now whenever I'm heavy-ish on the throttle when the boost kicks in around 2k-3.5k rpm in 2nd gear and up.
I installed new coil packs and 24 new spark plugs, so I'm ruling those out as being the problems. Can these misfires be because of incorrect gaps in the coils or the red silicone inserts? Or anything else? I want to make sure before I pull them out to see what the hell is happening now. Thanks.
I installed new coil packs and 24 new spark plugs, so I'm ruling those out as being the problems. Can these misfires be because of incorrect gaps in the coils or the red silicone inserts? Or anything else? I want to make sure before I pull them out to see what the hell is happening now. Thanks.
I would suggest running only the correct NGK plugs in this application, as they are quite sensitive to the wrong ones being used.
If you haven't replaced the transformer, it may not be feeding enough voltage for the coils to fire under full power, it all has to work right unfortunately, it's a very overly complex system for such a simple task.
If you have run the wrong plugs for a while you could have damaged the coils as well. Something to consider.
2001 S600 Lorinser Body Kit & W215 Front-End Conversion
Originally Posted by AlexMercedes
I used only the OEM spark plugs. The transformer hasn't been replaced, but it has been fully rebuilt. Can this still be an issue?
Can the voltage transformer be rebuilt? Did you rebuild it urself? Last I heard was that the voltage transformers were very difficult to rebuild. This was from Clark Rupp who rebuilds the coil packs from v12icpack.
Yes they can be rebuilt. I had someone replace the condensers and any other failed components in there with higher quality ones that are more reliable than whatever mercedes uses. It cost $550 in total, $275 for each side. I know I could have gotten a new one with that price, but the two sides failed 2 years apart from each other, and they seem to be holding strong right now.
I don't think my misfire issue now has anything to do with the voltage transformer, I'll probably have to pull out the coil pack to inspect it.
There's a company that's semi-local to me, Programa, who rebuilds the transformers.
In my personal OPINION, take it as you will, I would never waste my time with a rebuilt. A new one is ~$600, and it is 100% new. The most thorough rebuild possible will still reuse the board, and there is just no way that a rebuild can possible function test it the same as it sees in the real world, unless they are installing on the car and driving it under all conditions, including a tuned car.
The guys at Programa are very good, and they have rebuilt many modules for me and I've never had an issue. I just feel, in this application, if you're planning on racing the car (if you have a tune at all), it's not the place to cheap out. They cannot possibly simulate the load on the transformer, so even if it tests fine at 85% of what you need, if it fails at 95% it's junk.
In talking with the guys there, I was told they wouldn't rebuild the coils due to quality control issues with the replacement coils. The only thing they were comfortable with was the transformer. To my logic, this tells me they don't have a great way to test them. Rupp at V12icpack claims every coil he does is put in a car and test driven, which is a great way to guarantee that they work. As a private person doing the repairs he can do this. I wouldn't expect a major electronics rebuild to road test every part they sell, the economics just don't work.
05-20-2017, 08:53 PM
