S600 Hesitation Problem - Impossible to Diagnose & Fix - Need Help
08-28-2019, 11:50 AM
#51
A weak battery certainly can cause hesitation.
But if that doesn’t solve it , and I don’t think it will bc knocking is a different issue . Since your car has an unknown tune in it you really need to get a stock tune
a transmission wouldn’t cause engine knock . A tune definitely would
But if that doesn’t solve it , and I don’t think it will bc knocking is a different issue . Since your car has an unknown tune in it you really need to get a stock tune
a transmission wouldn’t cause engine knock . A tune definitely would
08-28-2019, 11:59 AM
#52
Senior Member
A weak battery certainly can cause hesitation.
But if that doesn’t solve it , and I don’t think it will bc knocking is a different issue . Since your car has an unknown tune in it you really need to get a stock tune
a transmission wouldn’t cause engine knock . A tune definitely would
But if that doesn’t solve it , and I don’t think it will bc knocking is a different issue . Since your car has an unknown tune in it you really need to get a stock tune
a transmission wouldn’t cause engine knock . A tune definitely would
In regard to knock sensors, it is still to be determined if the signal is coming from 1 sensor, and verified by at least one more, or we have a faulty sensor.
member @roberttran is going to check that.
10-29-2019, 10:29 PM
#55
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Quick update:
Took the car to even more shops - they were of no help and couldn't find the issue. Even with STAR diagnosis.
Changed the camshaft position sensors - no result
Changed the throttle body - no result
Used fuel system cleaners and octane boosters multiple times - no result
Should I just set the car on fire? I have a feeling it's possessed...
Took the car to even more shops - they were of no help and couldn't find the issue. Even with STAR diagnosis.
Changed the camshaft position sensors - no result
Changed the throttle body - no result
Used fuel system cleaners and octane boosters multiple times - no result
Should I just set the car on fire? I have a feeling it's possessed...
10-29-2019, 11:06 PM
#56
Member
Quick update:
Took the car to even more shops - they were of no help and couldn't find the issue. Even with STAR diagnosis.
Changed the camshaft position sensors - no result
Changed the throttle body - no result
Used fuel system cleaners and octane boosters multiple times - no result
Should I just set the car on fire? I have a feeling it's possessed...
Took the car to even more shops - they were of no help and couldn't find the issue. Even with STAR diagnosis.
Changed the camshaft position sensors - no result
Changed the throttle body - no result
Used fuel system cleaners and octane boosters multiple times - no result
Should I just set the car on fire? I have a feeling it's possessed...
Did you ever check for presence of a tune?
Try to look for spare ECU on eBay?
I have a new STAR unit coming in 2 weeks so I can help re-pair to new ECU if it can do that.
10-30-2019, 03:08 AM
#57
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Hey Robert, thanks for checking up on this issue again. I really don't think it's the tune because I've had the car for 5 years now and it just started doing this 5 months ago. Besides, the race gas should have made at least some sort of measurable improvement to the issue, but it didn't feel like anything happened, so I would rule out the ECU. Something else must be the culprit here.
Maybe once you get your STAR working I can come by again and really try to figure out what is going on? I feel like these shady mercedes independent shops with STAR don't really know what they're doing or how to properly diagnose anything.
You'll drive the car next time so you can really feel what's going on, it's different than sitting in the passenger seat or me explaining it. It is highly apparent on the freeway. The symptoms are constant, it is never unpredictable.
Hopefully I can get this issue solved by the end of the year.
Maybe once you get your STAR working I can come by again and really try to figure out what is going on? I feel like these shady mercedes independent shops with STAR don't really know what they're doing or how to properly diagnose anything.
You'll drive the car next time so you can really feel what's going on, it's different than sitting in the passenger seat or me explaining it. It is highly apparent on the freeway. The symptoms are constant, it is never unpredictable.
Hopefully I can get this issue solved by the end of the year.
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biker349 (10-30-2019)
10-30-2019, 07:46 PM
#59
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Yes. Brand new fuel pump, filter, and 5bar control unit. All according to the updated part numbers in this bulletin: https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...fuel-issue.pdf
That did absolutely nothing.
Since this issue appeared right after the transmission service, I'll be tackling that next. The conductor plate and TCC/PWM solenoid were replaced. P2600 Circuit 87 undervoltage and P2501 engine overreving codes are stored in the transmission control module. I have a good feeling something is wrong with either the electronics/sensors in the conductor plate or the TCC/PWM solenoid not correctly engaging, causing the surging.
Transmission repair shop denies any issues caused by his work. Looks like I'll have to find out about that myself.
That did absolutely nothing.
Since this issue appeared right after the transmission service, I'll be tackling that next. The conductor plate and TCC/PWM solenoid were replaced. P2600 Circuit 87 undervoltage and P2501 engine overreving codes are stored in the transmission control module. I have a good feeling something is wrong with either the electronics/sensors in the conductor plate or the TCC/PWM solenoid not correctly engaging, causing the surging.
Transmission repair shop denies any issues caused by his work. Looks like I'll have to find out about that myself.
11-01-2019, 05:28 AM
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
Torque converter clutch solenoid?
Does it make it's presence felt in any particular circumstances? ie: certain gear / speed / load conditions?
Nick
Does it make it's presence felt in any particular circumstances? ie: certain gear / speed / load conditions?
Nick
11-01-2019, 06:30 AM
#61
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Hey Nick. Yes, it does it consistently at particular speeds. Consistently at a certain gear/speed/load condition.
When you're gentle/moderate on the pedal, the car always has this hesitation and on/off feeling at exactly 2-3k rpm. The revs struggle to stabilize at a constant rpm. Car struggles to get going. Only in 2nd gear and up. First gear isn't affected.
I notice when I am going on the highway on-ramp at moderate throttle, right after it changes to third gear and tries to rev past 3.5k rpm, the car will suddenly halt and the rpm will drop down to around 3.2k and the car will no longer feel like it wants to go forwards. It always does this.
When I am going any speed over 40mph and attempt to give it heavy throttle, it will lurch forwards until it hits 4k rpm and the car will suddenly halt and no longer feel like it wants to move forwards. Always does it.
When I am completely off the throttle, at approximately 42mph through 62mph, the revs will start bouncing. After 62mph, it's gone. If I am on the throttle going 55mph and let off the pedal, the revs will keep bouncing while I decelerate until I hit under 42mph, where it will stabilize and no longer bounce. If I am going 80mph and let off the pedal, it will not bounce at all until I hit 62mph and then it starts bouncing again until I hit 42mph where it stabilizes.
It also bounces from around 20mph to 38mph. So If I am going 35 and let off, it will keep bouncing until I decelerate to 20mph where it will again stabilize.
The sweet spot to keep the revs from bouncing is exactly at 40mph.
These are constant. There are no exceptions. It may sound like a TCC problem after all.
When you're gentle/moderate on the pedal, the car always has this hesitation and on/off feeling at exactly 2-3k rpm. The revs struggle to stabilize at a constant rpm. Car struggles to get going. Only in 2nd gear and up. First gear isn't affected.
I notice when I am going on the highway on-ramp at moderate throttle, right after it changes to third gear and tries to rev past 3.5k rpm, the car will suddenly halt and the rpm will drop down to around 3.2k and the car will no longer feel like it wants to go forwards. It always does this.
When I am going any speed over 40mph and attempt to give it heavy throttle, it will lurch forwards until it hits 4k rpm and the car will suddenly halt and no longer feel like it wants to move forwards. Always does it.
When I am completely off the throttle, at approximately 42mph through 62mph, the revs will start bouncing. After 62mph, it's gone. If I am on the throttle going 55mph and let off the pedal, the revs will keep bouncing while I decelerate until I hit under 42mph, where it will stabilize and no longer bounce. If I am going 80mph and let off the pedal, it will not bounce at all until I hit 62mph and then it starts bouncing again until I hit 42mph where it stabilizes.
It also bounces from around 20mph to 38mph. So If I am going 35 and let off, it will keep bouncing until I decelerate to 20mph where it will again stabilize.
The sweet spot to keep the revs from bouncing is exactly at 40mph.
These are constant. There are no exceptions. It may sound like a TCC problem after all.
Last edited by AlexMercedes; 11-01-2019 at 06:32 AM.
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biker349 (11-01-2019)
11-02-2019, 11:35 AM
#62
Senior Member
You are finally 'getting to it IMHO. I would re-replace the 'conductor plate' and the leak prone connector, and then the TCU if not cured.
The exact repetition means a 'hard' incompatibility' between the transmission control system and the engine control system. Since this started 5 years after the 'tune', that 'tune' cannot be the problem--unless the 'tune' data map got corrupted somehow. That this showed up right after the tranny work, that is highly suspect IMHO, regardless of what that Tech says. HE may not have done anything wrong, but The Result is a problem. A faulty solenoid, circuit trace, connection or TCU may be the HARD cause.
The TCU and ECU and ??? how many other 'modules' coordinate to modulate the shifting processes. The engine speed and torque is modulated to smooth out the torque convertor clutch action and other gear changes. SOMETHING is not right and it is not a 'mechanical' failure.
'
The exact repetition means a 'hard' incompatibility' between the transmission control system and the engine control system. Since this started 5 years after the 'tune', that 'tune' cannot be the problem--unless the 'tune' data map got corrupted somehow. That this showed up right after the tranny work, that is highly suspect IMHO, regardless of what that Tech says. HE may not have done anything wrong, but The Result is a problem. A faulty solenoid, circuit trace, connection or TCU may be the HARD cause.
The TCU and ECU and ??? how many other 'modules' coordinate to modulate the shifting processes. The engine speed and torque is modulated to smooth out the torque convertor clutch action and other gear changes. SOMETHING is not right and it is not a 'mechanical' failure.
'
11-02-2019, 06:09 PM
#64
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Yeah, I could tell it's not a mechanical failure because I don't feel any vibrations, harsh thuds, grinding, kicking, or anything while driving. The transmission upshifts and downshifts as smooth as butter. It could very well be something wrong with the conductor plate, TCC solenoid, or TCU. Something between those components that were replaced are not agreeing with the car. Since the TCU was fine before the transmission service, I would suspect that last.
01-12-2020, 04:38 AM
#65
Senior Member
Thread Starter
UPDATE:
I believe we have found the problem. I met up with Robert again so we can try and pinpoint this issue for good, now with the help of his STAR/DAS that he finally got working.
We scanned the entire car and found some codes for minor electrical stuff that doesn't pertain to the issue. No codes stored in the engine or transmission at all. We reset everything and went for a drive. The issue still persisted. Came back and saw most of the electrical faults were gone, presumably from a weak battery that I just replaced last week, but still no codes from the engine or transmission. This thing was putting up a fight! It is a sick patient pretending it's fine towards the doctor!
Feeling stuck because there were absolutely no codes in the drive train, I went back to the TCC solenoid theory, which is having it serviced at a transmission shop by someone else for a faulty torque converter clutch (TCC) solenoid somehow went wrong and is causing the transmission to act up. This theory seems more valid due to the fact I noticed this issue right after the service was done. The service included replacing the fluid, filter, conductor plate, plug, and TCC solenoid. So we decided to inspect every aspect of the work that was done.
First, we checked the fluid and noticed it was a yellow/gold color. We checked Robert's S600 and the ATF was red. Already a red flag (no pun intended). It seemed like mine was also a bit overfilled too compared to Robert's car. Even though the color was off and it seemed a bit overfilled, the fluid was clean and the transmission didn't show any issues related to poor shift quality, leaking, or overheating. So we moved on to the next major part.
We navigated the DAS and found an option to temporarily turn off the TCC solenoid for diagnostic purposes. This was an incredibly useful tool, since I can ultimately see if my rpm fluctuation and hesitation is caused by a malfunctioning or erratically engaging TCC solenoid. Turning the function off would mean the TCC never engages, and hence will never cause any fluctuation or hesitation upon erratic engagement if it does indeed to be my issue here.
Turned that b*tch off, went for a drive and viola! No more bouncing RPMs and hesitation! I couldn't believe I finally found the issue! I had suspected that was it for the longest time, but without the help of Robert and his STAR/DAS I really wouldn't know for sure. Unfortunately you can't turn off the TCC engagement completely, since the function returns whenever the ignition is switched to off. I took some video evidence of the TCC solenoid being faulty with the use of DAS, and will present it to the shop that "serviced" my car. Assuming he's a normal person and will own up to his mistakes with clear evidence presented, I hope we will fix it free of charge.
Major thanks to Robert (roberttran) for helping me finally pinpoint the issue. Couldn't have done it without him. I'm definitely buying myself a STAR unit myself now, so worth it!
I believe we have found the problem. I met up with Robert again so we can try and pinpoint this issue for good, now with the help of his STAR/DAS that he finally got working.
We scanned the entire car and found some codes for minor electrical stuff that doesn't pertain to the issue. No codes stored in the engine or transmission at all. We reset everything and went for a drive. The issue still persisted. Came back and saw most of the electrical faults were gone, presumably from a weak battery that I just replaced last week, but still no codes from the engine or transmission. This thing was putting up a fight! It is a sick patient pretending it's fine towards the doctor!
Feeling stuck because there were absolutely no codes in the drive train, I went back to the TCC solenoid theory, which is having it serviced at a transmission shop by someone else for a faulty torque converter clutch (TCC) solenoid somehow went wrong and is causing the transmission to act up. This theory seems more valid due to the fact I noticed this issue right after the service was done. The service included replacing the fluid, filter, conductor plate, plug, and TCC solenoid. So we decided to inspect every aspect of the work that was done.
First, we checked the fluid and noticed it was a yellow/gold color. We checked Robert's S600 and the ATF was red. Already a red flag (no pun intended). It seemed like mine was also a bit overfilled too compared to Robert's car. Even though the color was off and it seemed a bit overfilled, the fluid was clean and the transmission didn't show any issues related to poor shift quality, leaking, or overheating. So we moved on to the next major part.
We navigated the DAS and found an option to temporarily turn off the TCC solenoid for diagnostic purposes. This was an incredibly useful tool, since I can ultimately see if my rpm fluctuation and hesitation is caused by a malfunctioning or erratically engaging TCC solenoid. Turning the function off would mean the TCC never engages, and hence will never cause any fluctuation or hesitation upon erratic engagement if it does indeed to be my issue here.
Turned that b*tch off, went for a drive and viola! No more bouncing RPMs and hesitation! I couldn't believe I finally found the issue! I had suspected that was it for the longest time, but without the help of Robert and his STAR/DAS I really wouldn't know for sure. Unfortunately you can't turn off the TCC engagement completely, since the function returns whenever the ignition is switched to off. I took some video evidence of the TCC solenoid being faulty with the use of DAS, and will present it to the shop that "serviced" my car. Assuming he's a normal person and will own up to his mistakes with clear evidence presented, I hope we will fix it free of charge.
Major thanks to Robert (roberttran) for helping me finally pinpoint the issue. Couldn't have done it without him. I'm definitely buying myself a STAR unit myself now, so worth it!
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01-14-2020, 07:38 AM
#69
Member
And that demonstrates the value of having a STAR Diagnostic System. :-) I had a somewhat similar issue in the E320 CDI (same transmission), and yep, TCC solenoid.
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turbonos7 (08-30-2020)
01-16-2020, 08:42 PM
#70
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2003 S600 (x2)
Exact same thing happened to me and I found my solution (finally)
Hello everyone, I have been chasing this hesitation problem on my 03 S600 for a very long time now and I lost all hope trying to figure out what it is and how to fix it. Its especially tough and frustrating when there are absolutely zero fault codes relating to it. I have pretty much run out of options, as I have changed everything I could possibly think of that this problem can be related to with no success. I am asking for help from all the knowledgeable people in this forum who may have a clue what it could be and how to properly go about fixing this nightmare of an issue.
The problem I am experiencing is that the car hesitates to move under any circumstance; whether it be at light throttle, medium throttle, heavy throttle, or full throttle. At light to medium throttle, the car attempts to move but the RPMs jerk back and forth, preventing it from taking off smoothly from a stop. If I press the gas pedal a bit harder, it moves past that "jerking" stage and gets going like normal, but it is very annoying and lacks smoothness, especially resulting in bad fuel economy. During heavy throttle or full throttle, the car launches forwards with incredible power until it hits a certain RPM - typically between 3.5k to 4.5k - and then the RPMs just abruptly halt and the car along with it, then the rpm climbs up very slowly and the car slowly accelerates following up with it, not giving it anywhere near its full power. The interesting thing is that if I put the car in 1st gear manually and give it gas, it has no problem and launches forwards without any hesitation (or none that I could immediately tell), until it gets to second gear and starts hesitating to put down the power again around that high RPM range. In addition to those two issues, there is another one that seems to be linked with them. When cruising at a steady speed or slowly coasting to a stop, with no throttle input applied at all, RPMs start to bounce back and forth between the 1k-1.5k range until I come to a stop or give it any throttle input. These three separate problems I have described seem to all be linked with each other as one huge problem, and I am confident that finding the solution for one of them will solve all three.
I have changed so many things on the car just in the past two months. I have been chasing this problem like a madman and I have not achieved any results because of its sheer difficulty of diagnosing. There is no check engine light. Scanners show nothing wrong with any systems. There is no trace of this problem ever existing within the car's computers. Therefore, I just started to throw a lot of parts at it, with no success. It has been a living nightmare. Here is the list of things I have done/changed on the car in the past two months with absolutely no result:
-Brand new coil packs, spark plugs, and red boot connectors (all properly installed with the proper OEM parts)
-Brand new fuel pump, fuel filter, and updated 5bar fuel pump control unit (OEM)
-Brand new MAP (green) and boost pressure (blue) sensors in the right places (OEM)
-Brand new charge air temperature sensor (OEM)
-Brand new accelerator pedal with sensor (OEM)
-Brand new PCV valve, oil separator, and hoses (OEM)
-Brand new vacuum lines for the entire wastegate/diverter valve system
-Brand new intercooler pump with a properly bled system, 12v always-running mod, and expansion reservoir (intercoolers are cool to the touch even after driving hard in California heat)
-Cleaned throttle body from carbon deposits, installed t-bolt clamps for boost hoses, checked charge pipes for leaks, changed air filters, no difference
-Rebuilt transmission valve body, along with upgraded torque converter lockup solenoids and springs, and changed fluid/filter
As you can see, I have pretty much changed everything that relates to vehicle power/hesitation issues. Although some of these fixes added some power back to the car, none of them fixed that RPM cutting off/bouncing/hesitating issue that has been plaguing my car. It has become extremely mentally frustrating for me, and I have used up all the information and resources that I could find from this forum, and none of it lead to me solving this specific issue thus far. The only other thing I can think of at this point is that the throttle body actuator itself is faulty, resulting in erratic opening/closing of the butterfly valve, but I am pretty certain that would throw a fault code. Another possibility I have in mind would be defective cats/o2 sensors, but those checked out fine when I had them tested. One more thing I can think of is that there is an air leak somewhere in the engine, but I cannot figure out where it could be coming from. Even if there was an air leak somewhere I believe my symptoms would be a constant decrease in performance rather than erratic engine speed fluctuation. So my money is on the throttle body itself at this point, but I do not want to just throw money at parts anymore with no result, so this is why I am asking all of you for your help and opinion. If my throttle body is the culprit here, what is the best way to go about fixing it? It looks like a basic Bosch electronic unit that is similarly used in many other makes and models, and I wonder if rebuilding it would be better than just finding a used one on ebay that may develop the same problem again later on due to age and use. If I do get a used ebay throttle body, will I need to program it to the car or is it just plug and play? Is there any throttle body reset/adaption procedure on this car? Any information or insight is greatly appreciated.
I noticed threads with complicated problems like these rarely have any videos demonstrating it, so I made one here just so everyone can understand what is really going on:
https://youtu.be/neFAsQMuaes
I apologize for the long and somewhat complicated post, but I would like this to be a main thread for people to stumble upon if they ever have the misfortune of being plagued with same problem. That way they would come here for a quick solution and be met with relief, since I was not able to have that myself.
The problem I am experiencing is that the car hesitates to move under any circumstance; whether it be at light throttle, medium throttle, heavy throttle, or full throttle. At light to medium throttle, the car attempts to move but the RPMs jerk back and forth, preventing it from taking off smoothly from a stop. If I press the gas pedal a bit harder, it moves past that "jerking" stage and gets going like normal, but it is very annoying and lacks smoothness, especially resulting in bad fuel economy. During heavy throttle or full throttle, the car launches forwards with incredible power until it hits a certain RPM - typically between 3.5k to 4.5k - and then the RPMs just abruptly halt and the car along with it, then the rpm climbs up very slowly and the car slowly accelerates following up with it, not giving it anywhere near its full power. The interesting thing is that if I put the car in 1st gear manually and give it gas, it has no problem and launches forwards without any hesitation (or none that I could immediately tell), until it gets to second gear and starts hesitating to put down the power again around that high RPM range. In addition to those two issues, there is another one that seems to be linked with them. When cruising at a steady speed or slowly coasting to a stop, with no throttle input applied at all, RPMs start to bounce back and forth between the 1k-1.5k range until I come to a stop or give it any throttle input. These three separate problems I have described seem to all be linked with each other as one huge problem, and I am confident that finding the solution for one of them will solve all three.
I have changed so many things on the car just in the past two months. I have been chasing this problem like a madman and I have not achieved any results because of its sheer difficulty of diagnosing. There is no check engine light. Scanners show nothing wrong with any systems. There is no trace of this problem ever existing within the car's computers. Therefore, I just started to throw a lot of parts at it, with no success. It has been a living nightmare. Here is the list of things I have done/changed on the car in the past two months with absolutely no result:
-Brand new coil packs, spark plugs, and red boot connectors (all properly installed with the proper OEM parts)
-Brand new fuel pump, fuel filter, and updated 5bar fuel pump control unit (OEM)
-Brand new MAP (green) and boost pressure (blue) sensors in the right places (OEM)
-Brand new charge air temperature sensor (OEM)
-Brand new accelerator pedal with sensor (OEM)
-Brand new PCV valve, oil separator, and hoses (OEM)
-Brand new vacuum lines for the entire wastegate/diverter valve system
-Brand new intercooler pump with a properly bled system, 12v always-running mod, and expansion reservoir (intercoolers are cool to the touch even after driving hard in California heat)
-Cleaned throttle body from carbon deposits, installed t-bolt clamps for boost hoses, checked charge pipes for leaks, changed air filters, no difference
-Rebuilt transmission valve body, along with upgraded torque converter lockup solenoids and springs, and changed fluid/filter
As you can see, I have pretty much changed everything that relates to vehicle power/hesitation issues. Although some of these fixes added some power back to the car, none of them fixed that RPM cutting off/bouncing/hesitating issue that has been plaguing my car. It has become extremely mentally frustrating for me, and I have used up all the information and resources that I could find from this forum, and none of it lead to me solving this specific issue thus far. The only other thing I can think of at this point is that the throttle body actuator itself is faulty, resulting in erratic opening/closing of the butterfly valve, but I am pretty certain that would throw a fault code. Another possibility I have in mind would be defective cats/o2 sensors, but those checked out fine when I had them tested. One more thing I can think of is that there is an air leak somewhere in the engine, but I cannot figure out where it could be coming from. Even if there was an air leak somewhere I believe my symptoms would be a constant decrease in performance rather than erratic engine speed fluctuation. So my money is on the throttle body itself at this point, but I do not want to just throw money at parts anymore with no result, so this is why I am asking all of you for your help and opinion. If my throttle body is the culprit here, what is the best way to go about fixing it? It looks like a basic Bosch electronic unit that is similarly used in many other makes and models, and I wonder if rebuilding it would be better than just finding a used one on ebay that may develop the same problem again later on due to age and use. If I do get a used ebay throttle body, will I need to program it to the car or is it just plug and play? Is there any throttle body reset/adaption procedure on this car? Any information or insight is greatly appreciated.
I noticed threads with complicated problems like these rarely have any videos demonstrating it, so I made one here just so everyone can understand what is really going on:
https://youtu.be/neFAsQMuaes
I apologize for the long and somewhat complicated post, but I would like this to be a main thread for people to stumble upon if they ever have the misfortune of being plagued with same problem. That way they would come here for a quick solution and be met with relief, since I was not able to have that myself.
the exact same thing happened to my 2003 S600. I swear I thought I was going to have to replace the transmission ( after already spending 10k on ABC)
Turns our it was a simple ECU/adaptive transmission reset. The beast drove like a brand new car and ALL those problems went away. Here are the instructions:
http://www.mercedesmedic.com/reset-m...-instructions/
follow the instructions carefully and don’t turn anything on or off. 5 minutes instead of 2 seemed to be my magic number. I use that time to question my car-buying decisions but after this reset I never looked back
good luck
01-16-2020, 09:45 PM
#72
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2003 S600 (x2)
S600 hesitation probs
A great post on how to fix this - http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w220...ise-cabin.html
I was stunned how well this works. Kinda like the wall tv mount I bought that doesn’t screw into the studs- just tiny nails. Again I was stunned.
if you try this reset let me know if it works and, if so, how well does it work
01-16-2020, 11:15 PM
#73
Senior Member
the exact same thing happened to my 2003 S600. I swear I thought I was going to have to replace the transmission ( after already spending 10k on ABC)
Turns our it was a simple ECU/adaptive transmission reset. The beast drove like a brand new car and ALL those problems went away. Here are the instructions:
http://www.mercedesmedic.com/reset-m...-instructions/
follow the instructions carefully and don’t turn anything on or off. 5 minutes instead of 2 seemed to be my magic number. I use that time to question my car-buying decisions but after this reset I never looked back
good luck
Turns our it was a simple ECU/adaptive transmission reset. The beast drove like a brand new car and ALL those problems went away. Here are the instructions:
http://www.mercedesmedic.com/reset-m...-instructions/
follow the instructions carefully and don’t turn anything on or off. 5 minutes instead of 2 seemed to be my magic number. I use that time to question my car-buying decisions but after this reset I never looked back
good luck
This show my ME9.7 ECU, but the same function should be in your ME2.8 ECU.
Just change "Lastschlagdaempfung " from aktiv to deaktiviert.
It is located in development menu, variant coding, Implizite.
If you don.t have DAS / Xentry, contact member @pmercury and have a talk with him.
02-14-2020, 03:51 AM
#74
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Update:
I took the car back to the transmission shop, and once again he's telling me my symptoms are not related to transmission issues. He hasn't even driven the car to see what's going on.
He did use his DAS/Xentry to update the TCU to the newest firmware via SCN coding, and reset all transmission adaptation values. There is an obvious difference in shift quality now, but the issue I'm having still persists. It did not get affected at all.
If the transmission software was practically "cleaned" and updated from any faults and this issue still persists, I do strongly believe it is a mechanical/internal issue now. The TCU had no stored codes yet again, and neither did the ECU. This is becoming the biggest pain in the *** to deal with.
At this point it feels like I have to take this loss and replace the entire valve body with a brand new one, which I really should have done to begin with. I just hope my torque converter didn't get fried from all this. It feels like it is constantly locking/unlocking for no reason, and I fear that all that stress definitely reduced the life of the converter.
I took the car back to the transmission shop, and once again he's telling me my symptoms are not related to transmission issues. He hasn't even driven the car to see what's going on.
He did use his DAS/Xentry to update the TCU to the newest firmware via SCN coding, and reset all transmission adaptation values. There is an obvious difference in shift quality now, but the issue I'm having still persists. It did not get affected at all.
If the transmission software was practically "cleaned" and updated from any faults and this issue still persists, I do strongly believe it is a mechanical/internal issue now. The TCU had no stored codes yet again, and neither did the ECU. This is becoming the biggest pain in the *** to deal with.
At this point it feels like I have to take this loss and replace the entire valve body with a brand new one, which I really should have done to begin with. I just hope my torque converter didn't get fried from all this. It feels like it is constantly locking/unlocking for no reason, and I fear that all that stress definitely reduced the life of the converter.
02-25-2020, 01:07 AM
#75
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Okay, so here is what I have decided.
Shop refuses to acknowledge there is an issue with the TCC, despite clear evidence being presented. He says "all V12 benzes do that." Wow, interesting to know! I bet all the other V12 owners can chime in and agree with that!
I'm taking the loss and moving on. Maybe if I had better equipment (Star/DAS) and was better at diagnosing issues, I would have caught this much earlier and the shop would have no choice but to actually fix it to avoid legal trouble. It's 9 months too late for that now.
Moving forward, the approach I would like to take is to try and disable the lockup function of the torque converter entirely. I don't want to go messing around with transmissions and valve bodies because I know I'll just make something worse, so I would want the ideal solution to be just disabling that tc lockup function entirely. The car drove perfect in the short test drive with the lockup function turned off via Star/DAS. It makes perfect sense, since every other normal car in the world only locks the torque converter when reaching a cruising speed in a high gear; it never locks up while accelerating. The fact that mercedes does this in every gear in practically every situation is quite dumb, and I don't think that 1% increase in fuel economy that they claim is justified by anything.
Here are the two big questions I have with disabling the torque converter lockup function:
1) Is it even possible to permanently disable the lockup function?
Star/DAS has a "diagnosting feature" to turn off the solenoid for diagnostic purposes. This shuts off the function only during a test drive with the computer still hooked up. Once the ignition is switched to the OFF position, normal TCC function is restored. I want to know if there is any hidden feature or any possible way to just disable it permanently, since the car was driving perfectly without the lockup function.
2)What kind of negative impacts will this have?
Now that the torque converter will never lock up, that means the engine flywheel is always spinning independently from the transmission, which is essential for proper engine output and acceleration, but creates heat and loss of fuel economy once a cruising speed is reached in a high gear. Will this be a major problem later down the line in terms of drivetrain wear? Are there any other negative consequences of permanently disabling the lockup?
Thanks for all the help so far. I feel like I'm nearing the light at the end of this miserable tunnel.
Shop refuses to acknowledge there is an issue with the TCC, despite clear evidence being presented. He says "all V12 benzes do that." Wow, interesting to know! I bet all the other V12 owners can chime in and agree with that!
I'm taking the loss and moving on. Maybe if I had better equipment (Star/DAS) and was better at diagnosing issues, I would have caught this much earlier and the shop would have no choice but to actually fix it to avoid legal trouble. It's 9 months too late for that now.
Moving forward, the approach I would like to take is to try and disable the lockup function of the torque converter entirely. I don't want to go messing around with transmissions and valve bodies because I know I'll just make something worse, so I would want the ideal solution to be just disabling that tc lockup function entirely. The car drove perfect in the short test drive with the lockup function turned off via Star/DAS. It makes perfect sense, since every other normal car in the world only locks the torque converter when reaching a cruising speed in a high gear; it never locks up while accelerating. The fact that mercedes does this in every gear in practically every situation is quite dumb, and I don't think that 1% increase in fuel economy that they claim is justified by anything.
Here are the two big questions I have with disabling the torque converter lockup function:
1) Is it even possible to permanently disable the lockup function?
Star/DAS has a "diagnosting feature" to turn off the solenoid for diagnostic purposes. This shuts off the function only during a test drive with the computer still hooked up. Once the ignition is switched to the OFF position, normal TCC function is restored. I want to know if there is any hidden feature or any possible way to just disable it permanently, since the car was driving perfectly without the lockup function.
2)What kind of negative impacts will this have?
Now that the torque converter will never lock up, that means the engine flywheel is always spinning independently from the transmission, which is essential for proper engine output and acceleration, but creates heat and loss of fuel economy once a cruising speed is reached in a high gear. Will this be a major problem later down the line in terms of drivetrain wear? Are there any other negative consequences of permanently disabling the lockup?
Thanks for all the help so far. I feel like I'm nearing the light at the end of this miserable tunnel.
