highfrequenzee

I'm in the process of ordering an s550 4-matic, as I live in an area where
there is a lot of snow. The thing is, I like the sport pkg looks and especially
the wheels. I'm wondering if it's oxymoronic to have the performance tires
and 4-matic, that is, if the reduced snow traction of said tires negates the
benefits of 4-matic in snow. I need something that I can drive year-round.

Has anyone ever tried to install a pass-thru ski bag in an s550, a la the
Audi A8?

My thanks to gweiler for posting the excellent pix of the graphite designo
interior on 3/21.

AsianML

As the great Luke@TireRack once said (I think ), it's better to have dedicated winter tires on a RWD/FWD car, than it is to have all-seasons or performance tires on an AWD car. So, in short, YES, it would negate the effects of AWD in the snow.

Welcome btw!

eddietr

Without a doubt, high perf summer tires on a 4matic car would totally defeat the purpose of the 4matic in snow/ice. Or even just cold weather.

But all you have to do is get another set of wheels/tires for the winter. Then you get the looks of the AMG pack and the best of both worlds in summer/winter performance.

Chucky300

Its still such a shame that u cant put ABC and 4MATIC on the same car.......

highfrequenzee

Thank you for welcoming me ...

I was thinking about equipping the vehicle with a set of high performance
all-season tires, such as the Yokohama ADVAN S.4,s, that come in the
275/40x19 size. These are similar in concept to the Michelin Pilot A/S,
although Michelin does not offer the size needed. I once owned an '02
s600 sport and made the mistake of installing slightly different rear tires
than the original size (like 285/35x18 instead of 275/40x18). This caused
the traction control to violently modulate the brakes of one tire. I ended
up driving around with traction control off, occasionally enjoying tire
smoking acceleration and fishtails. Not the best scenario for snow, so rather
than change tires, I traded the vehicle for an 04 SL600, a superb summertime
ride.

I'm thinking that the slight increase of width, 275 mm (sport) vs 255 mm (std)
versus std rear tires, that if they are both all-season, there isn't going
to be a huge difference in snow traction ?? If it was really bad out, I would
drive my '04 Range Rover.

FlavioB

While I don't have a W221, I have both a W220 S-class and 210 E-class 4-matic.

Here in Europe it's standard procedure to have both dedicated summer and winter tires. All-season tires are almost unknown, especially on high-end cars.

Can someone explain why people in the U.S. would prefer them, since they're basically just a compromise ? It's not like you're spending less, since one set of tires will last you longer, being used only for half a year.

BTW, I had a chance to drive a 221 on snow and equipped with snow tires it handeled extremely well.

silberrosa

I have to back up what flavio says. If you need tires for real winter driving, get some dedicated snow tires. You will not believe the difference. I have experienced the difference that snow tires can make and the improvement is unbelievable. Should be able to find a set of 17" or 18" to fit the 221 very easily. I would also recommend against putting staggered width tires on the 4matic.
MB recommended tires sizes for 221 17" - 235/55 R17 (17x8 ET43)
18" 255/45 R18 (18x8.5 ET43)
Yes, they might not look the best, but the small wheels/tires will be a nice benefit when those winter potholes make themselves known. Keep the winter tires on until the road crews get caught up - that's what we do up in the Northeast. Good Luck

eddietr

Agreed. I feel much safer in a RWD car with good winter tires than even a quattro with all seasons. The traction, particularly for braking, is the most important thing to me.

We put winter tires on the Touareg, the 201 and the 124. Obviously the GT3 goes into winter storage.

I'm not sure what I will do with the 221 yet. Either it will get proper winter tires mounted on 17 or 18 stock wheels. OR it will not come out of the garage if there is any chance of weather.

highfrequenzee

While I can't speak for all Americans, if you can avoid the hassle of storing and changing an extra set of tires/wheels, therein lies the benefit of all-season tires. All things in life are a compromise (trite, very trite), but I
can honestly say that I rarely or never take my tires to their adhesion limits on dry pavement. Anyway, here's a link to some compromised tires that tries to quantify the differences: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...speed_rating=Y

A few years ago, I attended a MB sponsored event at the Texas Motor Speedway, where customers paid a fee an got to drive all of the AMG models over a road course inside of the big oval with an instructor seated beside you. A co-sponsor of the event was Michelin, who were pitching the new Pilot sport A/S tires, which I believe were installed on the cars. The style of driving involved mashing the throttle, at the last minute, slam on the brakes, drift through the turns, maybe the tail hangs out a little, full throttle, slam on the brakes, etc. When you get out of the car, the brakes are clinking as the metal discs try to dissipate the heat. The point being, I'm not going to drive my Benz this way, and the trade-off of a little less adhesion at the limit is a good one for me if you get a substantial increase in foul weather traction. Not that driving that way wasn't a lot of fun, I'd simply rather abuse MB's cars and not my own.

I also have a big, heavy SUV (Range Rover) that has good weight distribution and has never gotten stuck in the past 4 years. I was going to put winter tires on it, but got lazy during the first year I owned it, and when I didn't encounter any problems, just left them on. As an aside, where I live, today there is a winter storm warning issued, expecting 8 - 14 inches of snow.

BTW, Switzerland is a lovely country, probably a wonderful place to live.

eddietr

Agreed that very often people don't exceed the traction limit of all seasons (except in panic braking)

BUT people do routinely exceed the traction limit in the winter. So it's not about the compromise of all-seasons in the summer, I agree that's not a big deal in a luxury car. But it's about the compromise in the winter!

ajm0623

based on a discussion i had with my dealer, i also concur with the sentiment of this topic - amg sportline with the 4matic system is counterproductive. my dealer said (and i love this quote "the s550 4matic WITHOUT the amg option will climb trees!" climb trees. funny. the s550 4matic with the amg option - forget it. so -- i too -- am in the same situation as you - love the look of the amg - need the 4matic for the chicago winters. hmmmmmm.

FlavioB

If anyone wants to see what kind of roads we drove on in the Alpine Training,

here's a link:

http://www.flickr.com/gp/47749519@N00/82z896

I can attest to the ability of the S550 on snow and ice. We also drove the RWD cars (SL-SLK-E-C) but the ESP was kicking in at almost every curve while the 4matic just drove up easy as you please !

For a daily driver I'll only consider a 4matic, at least as long as I don't live in Southern AZ. BTW, in a couple of weeks I'm off to Tucson to enjoy some welcome hot and dry weather !

eddietr

But again, dealer hyperbole aside, the best possible combination for winter driving in the 221 would be 4matic and winter tires. So if you're already committed to driving the 221 in the winter, and you know you would be far safer with a set of winter tires/wheels, then it doesn't matter if you get the AMG pack or not. The winter tires/wheels will fit either way.

AsianML

I'll be the first to admit that I don't always practice what I preach. On the ML we use all-season tires year round. For the past two years we've been on the very same tire (surprised they've lasted this long! knock on wood) and very little traction problems.

I don't see the problem with going with all-seasons M+S, that's fine, but I would absolutely go against high/performance all-seasons. Even more against it since you were thinking about going with 275s. The ML only has 255mm tires and with the V6 I still lose traction off the line, especially turning, I can't even imagine 275 with a big V8.

CLIFFS NOTES: Stick with 255mm, maybe something a little less aggressive than high-performance all-seasons, and as you said in earlier, if you even have to think twice about whether or not you should take the S out, then take the RR.

jstein

I have the same vehicle and I drove the car around the block in light snow and it was terrible. I purchaed Avon High Performance All-Season and they are great. I didn't want the bother of switching tires.

So I have a great looking car that handles like a dream and will go almost anywhere. (PS I live in Milw Wi so we have a lot of snow.)

Enjoy the car. (I don't understand how MBA can put Summer Tires on a 4matic vehicle.)

highfrequenzee

Isn't this a great forum, every post was constructive and respectful. I formalized my order yesterday, in spite of the weather, and should get an '08 S550 4-matic sometime in August, built in Germany during the first decade of July. I ordered the designo graphite, sport pkg, p2, rear seat pkg, panorama, etc.

When I returned, the latest Car & Driver had arrived, which had a brief writeup on the LS600. I hadn't realized that it would have all wheel drive and be a tad quicker than the S550. But, the S550 is much prettier and the designo interior is stunning. Plus the sport pkg, I mean, just look at the photo of Chucky300's car ...

FlavioB

Congratulations on your new car. I'm sure you'll be very happy with it.

eddietr

Congrats! You will love the Designo interior.

robpicard

Did you put the order in and did you actually get build date etc? I have been told that Designo's are on hold...

Diesel Benz

I'm not familiar with the Audi ski bag, I have the MB original ski bag as an option, you get a back that loads through the centre rear arm rest area.

robpicard

I have a similar order for Designo Graphite... Dealer stared that Designo will only be built some time during 3rd Quarter 07... Does this line up with your Designo Order? Please let me know.

highfrequenzee

I have now been told by my dealer that the designo graphite car cannot be built in July, but can be built in August leading to a 10/1/07 time frame for delivery to me. Ugh. Just in time for the change in weather.

Still interested in a ski bag solution like the one in the Range Rover or Audi.
I have not seen a factory solution available from MB

highfrequenzee

Diesel Benz -

I am unaware of a factory ski bag for the s550. What vehicle is the bag
that you speak of equipped in? Is it Europe only? thanks.

Incendiary

Flavio, were the RWD cars shod in winter or all-season or summer tires? Just curious.

FlavioB

All the cars were equipped with winter tires. Even so, the difference was incredible. There were some stretches were they allowed us to stop on a steep uphill climb with the 4matic but told us no to try with the RWD because they had trouble getting them moving again.
Now, keep in mind that this was in the Alps and the difference wouldn't be that great on flat roads.