cjf_moraga

Some speculation on the web about the end of MB V12's... (In contradiction to rumblings about a new generation of direct injection V12 a few months ago and rumors of cooperation with BMW and Aston Martin) Given that BMW seems to have dropped their own V12, perhaps MB finally decided to pull the plug? (And if so will Audi keep making the W12?)

http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-m...2-engines.html

http://www.wiyule.com/2008/11/29/mer...hasing-out-v12 engines/

http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...2-engines.html

Note the comments/speculation about the V12 being too long for upcoming models. I think I can look forwards to enjoying my S600 for a long time.

I originally ordered an S63 but turned it down when it arrived in the wrong trim. My choice of an S600 was a late substitute as it only cost slightly more - the best automotive purchase decision I ever made. I love the qualities of this engine configuration - its sheer smoothness, relaxed nature, yet vast quantities of power on hand whenever needed, amazing torque, its unused reserves and potential for future modification. There is really no other engine that combines all of these qualities. Just knowing I have this wonderful piece of automotive engineering under my hood is a source of the greatest pleasure... engineering that is part of an exclusive tradition... In fact there is a book lovingly devoted to the significance of the V12. (Recommended)

http://www.amazon.com/V12-Engine-Tec.../dp/1844250040

So if this is really true, imagine future Maybach's (if they survive) on V8's? And what about Rolls if BMW is no longer a source? (Though Bentley has been using big V8's for a long time) I guess Ferrari. Lambo, and Aston will continue to offer V12's for sports cars, but no sedans? MB has/had the volume of scale to set a (relatively) affordable price point for V12 sedans - and delivers higher levels of engineering integrity based on that volume.

I wonder what impact (if any) will this have on the price/value of existing V12 sedan's? Will they become dinosaurs, or to be cherished more as future collectors items?

Chris

trumpet1

I find this extremely disappointing. Not only do I not like the idea of not being able to get a new V12 later, I also don't like the fact the car will not be as long. I like the weight and dominance of our cars. I don't want an Acura, I don't want a BMW, I want that heavy solid V12 Benz.

I hate to say it, but I don't believe the value of our cars will have any significant appreciation any time soon. Now in 20 years, they may could pull off a premium just from the nostalgia of them, especially if the mileage on a copy is kept way low. In fact, I'm considering finding a cheap beater to use on a daily basis since I only drive 3 miles a day to work and back.

All I know is, I'm more happy now than ever that I bought this car. It really is awesome. We may be owners of the last of the absolutely best car built in the world EVER!

This is a sad day to hear this news as I was really counting on getting a new V12 sometime in the new S class lineup.

vonbeeler

+1 Chris. Well said!!!
I also originally ordered the 63 but was underwhelmed. The V12 offers all the advantages you mention and where all important factors in my decision to move forward with the 600.

Not sure about future collectivity. As soon as this economic uncertainty passes, I'm sure the 12 would be back. However in the short term if MB announces this, I'm sure it will provide some upward pressure on the resale values that have been falling off a cliff.

cjf_moraga

Yes agreed... I was envisioning eventually replacing my S600 with a next generation V12 CL in 6-7 years when my teenagers have likely moved on.

Having now had a V12 I don't really want a V8... (Turbo or not) It is not bragging rights.. it is the smoothness and elegance of the V12 design itself... and knowledge of what that means in engineering terms... frankly still relying on 4, 6, or 8 reciprocating masses of metal banging around inside a block of steel/aluminum is a pretty primitive way of powering a vehicle after 100 years... At the least, more pistons in a balanced configuration is the most elegant way of achieving the qualities I previously mentioned short of going to a turbine... (which is not economic)

I know that a V8 can be made to seem as smooth... but it is still not the same...

Chris

Red Marko

Chris,
I must say, I always enjoy your posts. Right to the point, well researched and written.
I too had a chance to compare CL63 and 600 (back to back). After 4 months of driving CL550, I could feel that something is missing. Sheer power and smoothness, that's what.
If in fact MB will decide to stop V12, totally unwise decision, then at the last year of production I will buy brand new one and enjoy it for another 6-7 years. I dislike Bentley.
Lets hope for V12, for years to come.
Mark.

trumpet1

Just showed this thread to a bunch of salesmen at my dealership today and they know nothing of the phase out. I really hope Dr.Z gets my Christmas card I sent to him this week with the extra note attached "Please Keep The V12!"

WSH

Saw this stuff...think it's a trial balloon

Last wk posted on AMG Private Lounge (which AMG Germany mgmt reads closely) my strong views about need for continued new-tech V12s

Suspect MB/AMG US and Germany have failed to properly market V12s to US mkt...and lack an understanding of poss demand for such cars if marketed competently

BTW, thx to V12 addicts like cjf, trumpet, markopolo and others for continuing to remind me about lack of tq of 63

My 65 is best damn car I've ever owned/driven...and can now no longer consider ever driving a mere V8 (NA or not), simply b/c of smoothness of delivery of V12...and its more elegantly intimidating exhaust note is rather addictive

gyzmo123

I just love the CL65's ... wanna share some pics dude?

trumpet1

Thanks WSH for the great post. Much of what you just said , I said to my MB friends at the dealership.
I too find it difficult now to go back to V8s. That's why I'm gonna watch this story close.

v8plus4

So, the additional power trumps the codgerly quilted interior?

Red Marko

I guess so,
this or we are getting older?
Which one is it, WSH
Mark.

Untertürkheim

I love the quilted interior!