Trade in your S-Class for a Hyundai Genesis?
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From: East Bay Area, CA
2013 SL 550 (Previously 2012 Porsche Panamera Turbo-S, 2015 Tesla P85D, 2007 S600, 2005 E55 AMG)
Trade in your S-Class for a Hyundai Genesis?
Well that got your attention....
http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/luxury_...nshift_090414/
"Starting at $32,250, it has drawn buyers who until recently might have opted for more costly prestige cars, such as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class (stickered at $89,350 and up), says John Krafcik, president and CEO of Hyundai Motor America."
Whatever you say John...
Chris
http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/luxury_...nshift_090414/
"Starting at $32,250, it has drawn buyers who until recently might have opted for more costly prestige cars, such as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class (stickered at $89,350 and up), says John Krafcik, president and CEO of Hyundai Motor America."
Whatever you say John...
Chris
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From: Paradise (a.k.a. Austin, TX)
'09 S63 AMG
Well......one thing to say about the Koreans/Chinese (and this is exactly how the Japanese did it back in the 70's) is that they are the masters of flattery - as in immitation being the ultimate form of flattery. They have figured out that the best way to cut the bull and swim to the top is to copy the big dogs. And voila - you have the ultimate "S-Class wanna-be". Welcome Genesis.
NOT!
On another note.... just the other day, a colleague of mine was talking to me about how he was going to buy a new car...... and so I asked him - which car? The Hyundai Genesis he said? I was like "what"? "Genesis", he said. "If you were at a stop light eye balling this car next to you, you'd swear it was a Benz or BMW / Lexus". At that time I had absolutely no clue what a Genesis was. So, then I checked it out and - wow! Even though I have a trained eye I could see how an average person could be fooled into thinking it was something a little more prestigeous than a "Hyundai"
Last edited by AustinGuy; Apr 17, 2009 at 02:17 PM.
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If someone is in the market for an $80k+ car, they're not going to go for the cheaper, $32k car no matter how close to the more expensive one it is. That's how I see it. A lot of people buying these type of cars are also in it for the prestige of owning a Mercedes-Benz. How much prestige is there in owning a Hyundai?
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If someone is in the market for an $80k+ car, they're not going to go for the cheaper, $32k car no matter how close to the more expensive one it is. That's how I see it. A lot of people buying these type of cars are also in it for the prestige of owning a Mercedes-Benz. How much prestige is there in owning a Hyundai?
The Genesis when I sat in one was superficially an OK car for the price and an offensive rip-off style wise... but structurally, dynamically and technologically, (the real reasons for buying an S-Class - not the badge) it does not even exist in the same universe.
Chris
Last edited by cjf_moraga; Apr 17, 2009 at 12:51 AM.
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I have to say the title of this post got my attention. I am sorry but I would not trade my S Class for anything except the facelift S Class. Hyundai is yet to prove itself, in terms of comfort, safety and reliability... Maybe when they throw in distronic plus, blind spot assist, pre safe II and all the other bells and whistles will I give it a second look. I am not trying to come across as snotty or anything, but if I were to downgrade the order would be Mercedes -> BMW 7 Series -> Audi A8 -> Lexus. At that point, I would leave the luxury segment and move down to the likes of the E Class before I even consider a hyundai. John needs to show me one person that had the money for an S but took the Genesis.
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2002 E430
Hyundai is slowly creeping up. Remember early 90's with Lexus? European car community bashed them for being a toyota and copying benz's. Sadly some of the ignorance still exists. Give them few more yrs. They market themselves as value brand not necessarily cheap brand and I believe it. There's a rumor for supercharged version of the V8 and that will definitely get more attention from here. They're top 5 selling brand for a reason.
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Hyundai is slowly creeping up. Remember early 90's with Lexus? European car community bashed them for being a toyota and copying benz's. Sadly some of the ignorance still exists. Give them few more yrs. They market themselves as value brand not necessarily cheap brand and I believe it. There's a rumor for supercharged version of the V8 and that will definitely get more attention from here. They're top 5 selling brand for a reason.
It is an economy car in enonomy segment of cars.
At least when Lexus emerged, it was Toyota's baby. Let's not compare Toyota and Hyundai.
Don't ever forget - you get what you paid for. Plain and simple.
I guess, only in the looks departament alone, Genesis driver could fool somebody....a mile away?
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Lots of other trade-down choices like BMW, Lex, Audi...or used copies of MB, etc
Aspirational affluent often will pay up for a used version of whichever brand/model seems cool
That said, perhaps majority of centimillionaires/billionaires in Manhattan are driven around in scuffed up, base S550s; most wealthy guys have zero interest in cars and just want a brand/model that looks respectable among their peers who are often similarly clueless about cars
Market speaks for itself in jaded regions, esp in a deep recession....often, new 65s are a hell of a lot easier to sell than new 550s in a difficult economy, as natural selection among buyers occurs
Aspirational affluent often will pay up for a used version of whichever brand/model seems cool
That said, perhaps majority of centimillionaires/billionaires in Manhattan are driven around in scuffed up, base S550s; most wealthy guys have zero interest in cars and just want a brand/model that looks respectable among their peers who are often similarly clueless about cars
Market speaks for itself in jaded regions, esp in a deep recession....often, new 65s are a hell of a lot easier to sell than new 550s in a difficult economy, as natural selection among buyers occurs
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Hyundai is slowly creeping up. Remember early 90's with Lexus? European car community bashed them for being a toyota and copying benz's. Sadly some of the ignorance still exists. Give them few more yrs. They market themselves as value brand not necessarily cheap brand and I believe it. There's a rumor for supercharged version of the V8 and that will definitely get more attention from here. They're top 5 selling brand for a reason.
This is not ignorance. Hyundai is not another Lexus, and anyway the market is completely different to the early 1990's.
What Hyundai and the Genesis proponents don't seem to get is that 50% of what an informed luxury car purchaser is buying is not "value".. it is confidence. In MB's case confidence in its understanding of what its customer wants, confidence in its heritage, design language, technology and innovation, build integrity, levels of customer service, willingness to be original... confidence built on decades of experience. Ultimately every luxury brand commands a level of respect - this is an MB forum, but most of us respect BMW, Audi, even - yes Lexus to a degree for what they have achieved. Can anyone in the market for a luxury car say that they really respect Hyundai? Despised for being an imitator more likely.
Chris
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Well that got your attention....
http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/luxury_...nshift_090414/
"Starting at $32,250, it has drawn buyers who until recently might have opted for more costly prestige cars, such as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class (stickered at $89,350 and up), says John Krafcik, president and CEO of Hyundai Motor America."
Whatever you say John...
Chris
http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/luxury_...nshift_090414/
"Starting at $32,250, it has drawn buyers who until recently might have opted for more costly prestige cars, such as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class (stickered at $89,350 and up), says John Krafcik, president and CEO of Hyundai Motor America."
Whatever you say John...
Chris
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have to admit the *first* time i saw the car, i did a double take. then i realized what it was, noted it for the future, and now pay no attention. it may look like a benzo-bmw class automobile from the OUtside, but me thinks the interior would not feel, look or perform like our cars. that said, i've never been in one and don't plan to do so in the future. some people will find it appealing, but true automobile fans will dismiss it straight away. i guarantee you it doesn't *drive* like a german automobile. in short: the engineering isn't there like our cars, the safety elements are not present like our cars and know very well that it won't *feel* the same. move along now. nothing to see here.
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2002 E430
That Hyundai is a top selling brand is completely irrelevant in the luxury car segment. That the Genesis is marketed as a "value" luxury car makes it even less relevant. Slavishly copying other companies designs makes it less relevant still.
This is not ignorance. Hyundai is not another Lexus, and anyway the market is completely different to the early 1990's.
What Hyundai and the Genesis proponents don't seem to get is that 50% of what an informed luxury car purchaser is buying is not "value".. it is confidence. In MB's case confidence in its understanding of what its customer wants, confidence in its heritage, design language, technology and innovation, build integrity, levels of customer service, willingness to be original... confidence built on decades of experience. Ultimately every luxury brand commands a level of respect - this is an MB forum, but most of us respect BMW, Audi, even - yes Lexus to a degree for what they have achieved. Can anyone in the market for a luxury car say that they really respect Hyundai? Despised for being an imitator more likely.
Chris
This is not ignorance. Hyundai is not another Lexus, and anyway the market is completely different to the early 1990's.
What Hyundai and the Genesis proponents don't seem to get is that 50% of what an informed luxury car purchaser is buying is not "value".. it is confidence. In MB's case confidence in its understanding of what its customer wants, confidence in its heritage, design language, technology and innovation, build integrity, levels of customer service, willingness to be original... confidence built on decades of experience. Ultimately every luxury brand commands a level of respect - this is an MB forum, but most of us respect BMW, Audi, even - yes Lexus to a degree for what they have achieved. Can anyone in the market for a luxury car say that they really respect Hyundai? Despised for being an imitator more likely.
Chris
Hyundai isn't only ones to blame for copying others. Almost everyone copy each other. They got a bad start in the US when they sold rebadged Mitsubishi precis as Exels. People, including myself, thought Hyundai was done here in the US. Then boom! after yr 2000 things started to takeoff. Nobody offered 10 yr warranty on new cars, some people bought it, most of them became repeat buyers. Now It's only matter of time when Hyundai will take bigger market share in luxury car segment.
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When Hyundai does that for me maybe just maybe I ll think about the ten year warranty nonsense.
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have to admit the *first* time i saw the car, i did a double take. then i realized what it was, noted it for the future, and now pay no attention. it may look like a benzo-bmw class automobile from the OUtside, but me thinks the interior would not feel, look or perform like our cars. that said, i've never been in one and don't plan to do so in the future. some people will find it appealing, but true automobile fans will dismiss it straight away. i guarantee you it doesn't *drive* like a german automobile. in short: the engineering isn't there like our cars, the safety elements are not present like our cars and know very well that it won't *feel* the same. move along now. nothing to see here.
The hyundai's V8 is quite powerful, the interior actually uses stitched leather on the dash, and it has many modern safety features. While it not be as tech heavy as an S-Class, we can't really expect it to given its $40k cheaper price.
It may not drive like a german automobile, and thats because it isn't one. Who cares? Enough people have bough Lexuses to show us that not everyone likes or wants something that drives like a german automobile.
true automotive fans usually appreciate bang for the buck, and in the luxury segment, the hyundai does a great job.
If MB's didn't have such awful resale value (meaning you can pick up a 2-3 year old model S-class for what the genesis costs), I would have looked at them.
Hyundai actually makes a pretty good car. I respect the work they've done, regardless of whether they've stolen some styling cues.
Last edited by Quadcammer; Apr 19, 2009 at 09:26 AM.
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From: SE Asia; Canada;
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For that price, you can't and shouldn't expect too much. Hence, IMO, for that price, the Hyundai is a great buy. It's absurd to cross-shop it with an S-class and so despite what Hyundai PR says, I'm sure they know their true target market. It's part of a evolution/growth process. Japanese manufacturers copied, and look how far they've come in the past 30 years. Look at where Hyundai was just 10 years ago, they have definitely come to long way. Undoubtedly, some people, including S-Class owners will compare an S with the Genesis but if you factor in the price, I'd say the Genesis deserves some credit.
Personally, in keeping an open mind about everything, I'll just say that Hyundai, like the Japanese, have come a long way and will continue to improve.
Now, saying S-Class owners will buy one to replace an S-Class, I'm skeptical. But I think Hyundai is well-aware of that despite of what their PR people say. They are just selling this car to showcase their capability, and just part of the process of eventually making better products at value price. I agree that brand/prestige is important, so while I won't be buying a Genesis to replace my S-Class, I am pretty sure Hyundai will sell many Genesis to many who would buy it over something else in that market segment (and dare I say, some would even buy it over a C-Class). The brand factor will not help the Genesis much but it's also not the cheap mini Hyundai either (whatever it's called).
Lest we forget, Hyundai makes some very upscale products in the domestic south Korean market, selling for >$100k. Those models carry prestige factor endorsed by many rich/powerful in Korea.
Just my 2 cents.
Personally, in keeping an open mind about everything, I'll just say that Hyundai, like the Japanese, have come a long way and will continue to improve.
Now, saying S-Class owners will buy one to replace an S-Class, I'm skeptical. But I think Hyundai is well-aware of that despite of what their PR people say. They are just selling this car to showcase their capability, and just part of the process of eventually making better products at value price. I agree that brand/prestige is important, so while I won't be buying a Genesis to replace my S-Class, I am pretty sure Hyundai will sell many Genesis to many who would buy it over something else in that market segment (and dare I say, some would even buy it over a C-Class). The brand factor will not help the Genesis much but it's also not the cheap mini Hyundai either (whatever it's called).
Lest we forget, Hyundai makes some very upscale products in the domestic south Korean market, selling for >$100k. Those models carry prestige factor endorsed by many rich/powerful in Korea.
Just my 2 cents.
Last edited by WingFlex; Apr 19, 2009 at 10:07 AM.
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I'm not on the "Genesis hating" trend personally. Sure Hyundai's copied everyone, but look at the W212 E-Class, M-B has copied them with that rear end (
) and seem to have copied various other manufacturers as well in some design elements. People will copy each other, and it does suck, but the gap between M-B and the others is closing in, and they're showing it with playing catch up more often than they did in the past IMO.
The interior of the Genesis is very nice, and being someone who Rents a different car almost every weekend for long trips, the Hyundai Sonata has been the best all around car I've driven in its segment, top to bottom it outshines its competitors IMO. If the Genesis carries that trend and improves upon it, it's going to be a real player....
Being a detail-oriented M-B owner, there are areas in the Genesis which don't have the attention to detail, or solid feeling of materials throughout, and that teutonic nature, but it is a great interior nonetheless.
Price wise the Genesis will if anything possibly take some people in the market for the E-Class or 5-Series.
Here's a Link to and some Photo's from an Article on the W211 and Genesis. The 211 prevailed, but it shows Hyundai is on the right track.
One thing I will say, is it's not a bad looking car, but lacks the finessed look and "leaner" nature of the better M-B designs, it has that bloated Japanese look, but to the average Joe, it's probably close enough:
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature...s/Motive.shtml
IMO these pics clearly show how much more defined and crisp (and superior IMO) the W211's design is, and Hyundai does have some work to do to really capture the essence of a good M-B design, but again, many people couldn't tell perhaps.
) and seem to have copied various other manufacturers as well in some design elements. People will copy each other, and it does suck, but the gap between M-B and the others is closing in, and they're showing it with playing catch up more often than they did in the past IMO.The interior of the Genesis is very nice, and being someone who Rents a different car almost every weekend for long trips, the Hyundai Sonata has been the best all around car I've driven in its segment, top to bottom it outshines its competitors IMO. If the Genesis carries that trend and improves upon it, it's going to be a real player....
Being a detail-oriented M-B owner, there are areas in the Genesis which don't have the attention to detail, or solid feeling of materials throughout, and that teutonic nature, but it is a great interior nonetheless.
Price wise the Genesis will if anything possibly take some people in the market for the E-Class or 5-Series.
Here's a Link to and some Photo's from an Article on the W211 and Genesis. The 211 prevailed, but it shows Hyundai is on the right track.
One thing I will say, is it's not a bad looking car, but lacks the finessed look and "leaner" nature of the better M-B designs, it has that bloated Japanese look, but to the average Joe, it's probably close enough:
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature...s/Motive.shtml
IMO these pics clearly show how much more defined and crisp (and superior IMO) the W211's design is, and Hyundai does have some work to do to really capture the essence of a good M-B design, but again, many people couldn't tell perhaps.
Last edited by K-A; Apr 19, 2009 at 12:06 PM.
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From: Maui, Hawaii
CLS63, GLK350
I'm not on the "Genesis hating" trend personally. Sure Hyundai's copied everyone, but look at the W212 E-Class, M-B has copied them with that rear end () and seem to have copied various other manufacturers as well in some design elements. People will copy each other, and it does suck, but the gap between M-B and the others is closing in, and they're showing it with playing catch up more often than they did in the past IMO.
The interior of the Genesis is very nice, and being someone who Rents a different car almost every weekend for long trips, the Hyundai Sonata has been the best all around car I've driven in its segment, top to bottom it outshines its competitors IMO. If the Genesis carries that trend and improves upon it, it's going to be a real player....
Being a detail-oriented M-B owner, there are areas in the Genesis which don't have the attention to detail, or solid feeling of materials throughout, and that teutonic nature, but it is a great interior nonetheless.
Price wise the Genesis will if anything possibly take some people in the market for the E-Class or 5-Series.
Here's a Link to and some Photo's from an Article on the W211 and Genesis. The 211 prevailed, but it shows Hyundai is on the right track.
One thing I will say, is it's not a bad looking car, but lacks the finessed look and "leaner" nature of the better M-B designs, it has that bloated Japanese look, but to the average Joe, it's probably close enough:
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature...s/Motive.shtml
IMO these pics clearly show how much more defined and crisp (and superior IMO) the W211's design is, and Hyundai does have some work to do to really capture the essence of a good M-B design, but again, many people couldn't tell perhaps.
) and seem to have copied various other manufacturers as well in some design elements. People will copy each other, and it does suck, but the gap between M-B and the others is closing in, and they're showing it with playing catch up more often than they did in the past IMO.The interior of the Genesis is very nice, and being someone who Rents a different car almost every weekend for long trips, the Hyundai Sonata has been the best all around car I've driven in its segment, top to bottom it outshines its competitors IMO. If the Genesis carries that trend and improves upon it, it's going to be a real player....
Being a detail-oriented M-B owner, there are areas in the Genesis which don't have the attention to detail, or solid feeling of materials throughout, and that teutonic nature, but it is a great interior nonetheless.
Price wise the Genesis will if anything possibly take some people in the market for the E-Class or 5-Series.
Here's a Link to and some Photo's from an Article on the W211 and Genesis. The 211 prevailed, but it shows Hyundai is on the right track.
One thing I will say, is it's not a bad looking car, but lacks the finessed look and "leaner" nature of the better M-B designs, it has that bloated Japanese look, but to the average Joe, it's probably close enough:
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature...s/Motive.shtml
IMO these pics clearly show how much more defined and crisp (and superior IMO) the W211's design is, and Hyundai does have some work to do to really capture the essence of a good M-B design, but again, many people couldn't tell perhaps.
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Indeed. You're right, the stuff that I personally noticed when sitting in the Genesis were things that a nit-picky M-B owner would, such as how solid the buttons felt, how certain materials felt, etc. But all in all, they were definitely minor enough to go unnoticed by the mass public. The thing has a very nice interior, which really does stand up well enough to cars that cost a ton more.
Can you imagine in a year or two these things will be going for around $20K? Dipping into the teens? With all those great plus points it gives, and the huge Warranty, it will be the best Used value around.
It even has the M-B/BMW I-Drive/Command knob
Can you imagine in a year or two these things will be going for around $20K? Dipping into the teens? With all those great plus points it gives, and the huge Warranty, it will be the best Used value around.
It even has the M-B/BMW I-Drive/Command knob
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2002 E430
S-class buyers switching to Genesis sedan doesn't seem likely. But I do see possibility of C-class buyers or some E-class buyers switching. For price of fully loaded C350 you can get fully loaded v8 genesis.
From clublexus.com:
Genesis may become separate brand
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-...sub-brand.html
From clublexus.com:
Genesis may become separate brand
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-...sub-brand.html
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GT63S ePerformance 4dr, '25 Bentayga Black Ed.(wife), Wrangler and 250 MLB(kids)
That Hyundai is a top selling brand is completely irrelevant in the luxury car segment. That the Genesis is marketed as a "value" luxury car makes it even less relevant. Slavishly copying other companies designs makes it less relevant still.
This is not ignorance. Hyundai is not another Lexus, and anyway the market is completely different to the early 1990's.
What Hyundai and the Genesis proponents don't seem to get is that 50% of what an informed luxury car purchaser is buying is not "value".. it is confidence. In MB's case confidence in its understanding of what its customer wants, confidence in its heritage, design language, technology and innovation, build integrity, levels of customer service, willingness to be original... confidence built on decades of experience. Ultimately every luxury brand commands a level of respect - this is an MB forum, but most of us respect BMW, Audi, even - yes Lexus to a degree for what they have achieved. Can anyone in the market for a luxury car say that they really respect Hyundai? Despised for being an imitator more likely.
Chris
This is not ignorance. Hyundai is not another Lexus, and anyway the market is completely different to the early 1990's.
What Hyundai and the Genesis proponents don't seem to get is that 50% of what an informed luxury car purchaser is buying is not "value".. it is confidence. In MB's case confidence in its understanding of what its customer wants, confidence in its heritage, design language, technology and innovation, build integrity, levels of customer service, willingness to be original... confidence built on decades of experience. Ultimately every luxury brand commands a level of respect - this is an MB forum, but most of us respect BMW, Audi, even - yes Lexus to a degree for what they have achieved. Can anyone in the market for a luxury car say that they really respect Hyundai? Despised for being an imitator more likely.
Chris
This car sells well because it offers great value at the price it is at, for all the people who are not really into cars (like 100% of this site) but see a great alternative to a BMW 3series,MB C-Class or Audi A4/A6.
Hyundai dealers receive a lot of these cars as trade-ins,that has never happened before.
Genesis is NOT a competition for the S-Class or even any other luxury car in that segment(750i,A8 etc) but is succesfully stealing sales from to lower ranks of these manufacturers.
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^^ You guys are right, I forgot about the C-Class. I think S-Class buyers wouldn't go to a Genesis at all, just totally different price points, UNLESS it's someone looking at either a Used S-Class, or a new Genesis, I could see that happening.
The E-Class may have some Sales taken, but again, the price difference is wide enough to ensure that someone in the market for an E wants the "prestige" value too much to possibly go to the Hyundai.
The C however, could very well suffer some Sales. Besides the solidity and Safety assurance you get with the C-Class, the Genesis is VASTLY superior (taking handling and Sportiness out of the equation here), and if I were spending $30whatever K for a brand new car, I couldn't get myself to go with the C knowing how much of a more luxurious, and nicely appointed car I could get with the Genesis, even despite me acknowledging the C's nicer exterior design- even despite its more compact nature. Those who like the sportier/nimble nature of the C obviously won't be considering the Genesis though....
The E-Class may have some Sales taken, but again, the price difference is wide enough to ensure that someone in the market for an E wants the "prestige" value too much to possibly go to the Hyundai.
The C however, could very well suffer some Sales. Besides the solidity and Safety assurance you get with the C-Class, the Genesis is VASTLY superior (taking handling and Sportiness out of the equation here), and if I were spending $30whatever K for a brand new car, I couldn't get myself to go with the C knowing how much of a more luxurious, and nicely appointed car I could get with the Genesis, even despite me acknowledging the C's nicer exterior design- even despite its more compact nature. Those who like the sportier/nimble nature of the C obviously won't be considering the Genesis though....
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Mercedes-Benz
I drove the V8 Genesis sedan back to back with my CLS550.
Pros:
V8 power
Good materials
Soft leather
Great navigation system
Excellent stereo
Good visibility
Cons:
Terrible paint finish and bumper to body color match... absolutely the worst I have seen
Rear hat shelf had a bad rattle
V8 transmission felt clunky (could be still adapting)
Ride was extremely choppy and stiff, couldn't believe it
Seats were too soft
Pros:
V8 power
Good materials
Soft leather
Great navigation system
Excellent stereo
Good visibility
Cons:
Terrible paint finish and bumper to body color match... absolutely the worst I have seen
Rear hat shelf had a bad rattle
V8 transmission felt clunky (could be still adapting)
Ride was extremely choppy and stiff, couldn't believe it
Seats were too soft
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
2007 s600 2007 cls63
This might be a little OT...does anyone remember what the MSRP was on the FIRST Lexus LS? If I remeber correctly it was somewhere around 38k (and look at what the MSRP is for a 09 LS) Hyundai is just trying to go this route by starting low and in a few years they hope they can follow Toyota in rebranding their image.
