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Yeah, I came across that slick piece of bull**** while I was tearing my car apart hunting down crappy speakers and replacing them. The one word in that brochure you need to pay attention to is the mention of an "Alumaprene" speaker cone...basically plastic coated metal... and, aside from a terrible factory EQ curve, the number one reason the HK sounds so thin, tinny and harsh. Instead of a concert violin in that brochure it should be a picture of a kazoo.
Honestly if I was out somewhere and someone introduced me to the guy that invented "Alumaprene" I would not be able to stop kicking him in the *****.
Like, they would have to taze me. Multiple times.
Last edited by Mike5215; Feb 16, 2015 at 11:08 PM.
Hahaha. It's funny how they brag about this new type of speaker in the literature. Why do they always want to try something new that always ends up proving an older design works better. And, didn't someone who did the sound system in the 220 listen to a w221 before they gave Harman the go ahead?
I agree Jason, I remember before I bought my W221 how I watched Jeremy Clarkson talk about the surround sound and how it gives the full cinema experience and how oh how I thought it would blow the socks off my 220's system but no! The bose sound system in my wife's ML from 1998 sounds 10x better. I used to have a 740i and it had an echo feature which sounded great.
Last edited by MBZSW221; Feb 17, 2015 at 12:50 AM.
The audio from the stock Bose system in the W220 was gorgeous right out of the box. All I needed to do was add a small powered sub in the trunk and install a Dennison module to add streaming BT and an Aux In and I was set. No comparison to the 221.
Hahaha. It's funny how they brag about this new type of speaker in the literature. Why do they always want to try something new that always ends up proving an older design works better. And, didn't someone who did the sound system in the 220 listen to a w221 before they gave Harman the go ahead?
The alumaprene cones are hardly new. I remember installing speakers into my '72 Monte Carlo back in 1984 that had alumaprene cones. I wasn't any kind of audiophile back then, but I remember that they sounded better than the stock 1972 paper speakers.
Nothing to me sounded as good as the Mark Levinson stereos that Lexus has been installing in their LS models for years. You could hear each individual instrument in a concert hall. They were a little lacking on thumping bass, but I don't think they were trying to appeal to thumping rap music.
^Same in the 220 Bose. You could distinctly pick out any instrument or vocal harmony and follow the performance throughout the track. One way they do that is to avoid artificially enhancing the bass, which takes a lot of the "thickness" out of the bottom but leaves the openness you need in order not to mask the detail.
The problem is that people become accustomed to hearing their music presented in a certain way, usually with exaggerated bass and highs. Kind of like when you see a TV on display in a store and they have all of the brightness, contrast and color saturation maxed out. It grabs your eye but really in order to have true detail you have to back down the eye candy. The resulting image doesn't "pop" as much but the detail can reveal itself.
The audio from the stock Bose system in the W220 was gorgeous right out of the box. All I needed to do was add a small powered sub in the trunk and install a Dennison module to add streaming BT and an Aux In and I was set. No comparison to the 221.
I think I've asked you this before, but now does your modded 221 beat the 220?
Well, it's been awhile since I've heard the 220, but I still think I'd prefer it to the modded 221. Just more open and natural. Even with the speaker replacement it still needs a good deal of post processing to compensate for the factory EQ, which is embedded in the Harman-Becker amp and inaccessible externally. I enjoy my system a great deal...it entirely transforms the car's driving experience to have high-end audio, but I can't honestly say it's subjectively better than or equal to the 220.
I agree Jason, I remember before I bought my W221 how I watched Jeremy Clarkson talk about the surround sound and how it gives the full cinema experience and how oh how I thought it would blow the socks off my 220's system but no! The bose sound system in my wife's ML from 1998 sounds 10x better. I used to have a 740i and it had an echo feature which sounded great.
Jeremy is tone def !!! LOL
THE HK in the W221 is not that bad.....it sounds better than all Bose systems I've had in the past (Acura, Infiniti.....some GM products)
The best Bose system I ever head was in my old man's 86 Caddy Coupe D'ville. Listening to the heartbeat in the beginning of Dark Side of the Moon....when you closed your eyes you really could not tell where the bass was coming from....sounded like it came from the front & rear (only 4x6 speakers up front)
No Quarter from Led Zeppelin sounds thick & smooth.
No highs, no lows.......it must be Bose!
I will soon add a JL sub & my trusty JL amp to the Benz when I muster up the courage to tackle the back seat removal to access and remove the stock "subwoofer"
I try not to get hung up on names and focus on performance. There's nothing wrong with Bose per se. It really depends on what kind of money the car's manufacturer is willing to commit to the system beyond paying Bose for the license. The Bose system in a $30,000 Chevy pick up truck isn't the same system a $90,000 W220 got, especially since in the W220 had no option for "premium" audio. The stock Bose had to do the trick because there wasn't another choice.
The W220's Bose system was almost universally loved by owners, whereas the W221 HK system is almost equally reviled. Actually, the one area I can't complain about, after adding a little EQ, is the bass response. The two 8" subs in the front doors hit really hard once their EQ is corrected, and the same for the 8 x 12" on the rear deck. I just had to Hushmat everything to stop the car from rattling.
The problem with the 221 is a combination of a midrange heavy factory EQ, over attenuated bass in the factory EQ, and excessively bright drivers in the front doors. That, combined with minimal tone controls in COMAND.
Is your JL sub in a box? If so you'll want to cut open a portal between the rear seats otherwise the thing will be pounding away back there and you'll barely hear it. MB builds really isolated trunks.
I try not to get hung up on names and focus on performance. There's nothing wrong with Bose per se. It really depends on what kind of money the car's manufacturer is willing to commit to the system beyond paying Bose for the license. The Bose system in a $30,000 Chevy pick up truck isn't the same system a $90,000 W220 got, especially since in the W220 had no option for "premium" audio. The stock Bose had to do the trick because there wasn't another choice.
The W220's Bose system was almost universally loved by owners, whereas the W221 HK system is almost equally reviled. Actually, the one area I can't complain about, after adding a little EQ, is the bass response. The two 8" subs in the front doors hit really hard once their EQ is corrected, and the same for the 8 x 12" on the rear deck. I just had to Hushmat everything to stop the car from rattling.
The problem with the 221 is a combination of a midrange heavy factory EQ, over attenuated bass in the factory EQ, and excessively bright drivers in the front doors. That, combined with minimal tone controls in COMAND.
Is your JL sub in a box? If so you'll want to cut open a portal between the rear seats otherwise the thing will be pounding away back there and you'll barely hear it. MB builds really isolated trunks.
Agreed. I used to own a 96 vette and the delco bose system sounded great (even when the cd jammed some times lol). The easiest way I can describe the W221s system is like this. I recently bought a new TV. Now the sound from the speakers of the TV are okay but not as good as my home teather system. But really in a car of this class they should have some world class speakers. I wonder how the Mark Levinson in the LS sounds like.
Agreed. I used to own a 96 vette and the delco bose system sounded great (even when the cd jammed some times lol). The easiest way I can describe the W221s system is like this. I recently bought a new TV. Now the sound from the speakers of the TV are okay but not as good as my home teather system. But really in a car of this class they should have some world class speakers. I wonder how the Mark Levinson in the LS sounds like.
I had a Lexus LS460L with the Mark Levinson system. It sounded really good and makes the HK system in the Mercs sound cheap. I do miss it but the system was problematic. A very common issue for that system is for the sub or the amp to blow. Those parts when you need to replace are not cheap. I believe its $1200 for the sub and almost $3000 for the amp.
The 221 did have the option for high end audio (B&O), but it was $6400 and you don't see a lot of 221's with that upgrade. It was more often in the S600 and I believe in 2011 it became standard in the 600. I've heard good things about the Levinson system and I did take out a 460 for a test drive but I really didn't have time to shake out the audio like I normally would. It did seem nicely neutral and balanced.
I can pretty much work with any stock system and get it to sound how I want without getting into major equipment replacement, but the 221 HK really presented much more of a challenge than I was expecting for an S Class. I did ultimately get there and it wasn't hugely expensive, maybe a couple grand total, but it was a pain in the ***.
The 221 did have the option for high end audio (B&O), but it was $6400 and you don't see a lot of 221's with that upgrade. It was more often in the S600 and I believe in 2011 it became standard in the 600. I've heard good things about the Levinson system and I did take out a 460 for a test drive but I really didn't have time to shake out the audio like I normally would. It did seem nicely neutral and balanced.
I can pretty much work with any stock system and get it to sound how I want without getting into major equipment replacement, but the 221 HK really presented much more of a challenge than I was expecting for an S Class. I did ultimately get there and it wasn't hugely expensive, maybe a couple grand total, but it was a pain in the ***.
If I knew about how horrible the HK system was I would have searched for a car with the B&O. The HK is very disappointing.... so disappointing I rarely drive with music on. I hardly get any bass, if I turn up the system it gets distorted, vocals sound tinny.....
The Lexus ML system I could have it on full blast and would not distort. The bass was nice and didn't drown out the vocals, it would even shake the rear view mirror.
I did blow the sub once, and I had to purchase one off eBay for $750. I didn't attempt to install it myself due to my Lexus having the optional shiatsu massager in it and the entire back seat, fridge, rear deck lid had to come out to install the sub. Cost another $300 in labour to replace the sub.
If I knew about how horrible the HK system was I would have searched for a car with the B&O. The HK is very disappointing.... so disappointing I rarely drive with music on. I hardly get any bass, if I turn up the system it gets distorted, vocals sound tinny.....
The Lexus ML system I could have it on full blast and would not distort. The bass was nice and didn't drown out the vocals, it would even shake the rear view mirror.
I did blow the sub once, and I had to purchase one off eBay for $750. I didn't attempt to install it myself due to my Lexus having the optional shiatsu massager in it and the entire back seat, fridge, rear deck lid had to come out to install the sub. Cost another $300 in labour to replace the sub.
I can totally help you out, and it'll cost you around $100. So what's causing the tinny sound are the 4" front door midrange speakers. If you put your ear to the the lower door speaker module near the smaller of the two openings you'll immediately know what I'm talking about. There are actually 5 of those crappy 4" speakers in the cabin, but the front doors get the majority of the signal and sound the crappiest.
The lack of bass is entirely a self-inflicted wound by Mercedes. The factory EQ emphasizes the mids (again, the 4" front door speakers) and kills the bass, and my guess is they did that to avoid complaints of rattles. The good news is that buried in all that crappy EQ is a very powerful and capable 14 speaker system with a 600 watt amp and digital signal processing. There are three stout shallow mount subwoofers in the car and they will shake the rearview mirror with no difficulty at all. The mids can be tamed without killing all the highs.
My solution is to put a 7 band graphic equalizer in the glove box, pull power for it from the 12v receptacle in the glove box, and run the output from the EQ into the car's aux in jack, also in the glove box. Run a cable from your smartphone to the input on the EQ and you're in business. The whole install is tool-less and takes about ten minutes.
With the EQ, you just dial up the bass (it will give you more than you'll ever actually want) and push the mids into the basement. Several members have done the mod and I've had nothing but great feedback from very happy guys.
See the write up in my blog (the link is in my sig). I guarantee you'll start listening to music in the car again.
Last edited by Mike5215; Feb 18, 2015 at 11:14 AM.
I can totally help you out, and it'll cost you around $100. So what's causing the tinny sound are the 4" front door midrange speakers. If you put your ear to the the lower door speaker module near the smaller of the two openings you'll immediately know what I'm talking about. There are actually 5 of those crappy 4" speakers in the cabin, but the front doors get the majority of the signal and sound the crappiest.
The lack of bass is entirely a self-inflicted wound by Mercedes. The factory EQ emphasizes the mids (again, the 4" front door speakers) and kills the bass, and my guess is they did that to avoid complaints of rattles. The good news is that buried in all that crappy EQ is a very powerful and capable 14 speaker system with a 600 watt amp and digital signal processing. There are three stout shallow mount subwoofers in the car and they will shake the rearview mirror with no difficulty at all. The mids can be tamed without killing all the highs.
My solution is to put a 7 band graphic equalizer in the glove box, pull power for it from the 12v receptacle in the glove box, and run the output from the EQ into the car's aux in jack, also in the glove box. Run a cable from your smartphone to the input on the EQ and you're in business. The whole install is tool-less and takes about ten minutes.
With the EQ, you just dial up the bass (it will give you more than you'll ever actually want) and push the mids into the basement. Several members have done the mod and I've had nothing but great feedback from very happy guys.
See the write up in my blog (the link is in my sig). I guarantee you'll start listening to music in the car again.
Great, informative post, Mike. I appreciate you sharing your experience with us.
I can totally help you out, and it'll cost you around $100. So what's causing the tinny sound are the 4" front door midrange speakers. If you put your ear to the the lower door speaker module near the smaller of the two openings you'll immediately know what I'm talking about. There are actually 5 of those crappy 4" speakers in the cabin, but the front doors get the majority of the signal and sound the crappiest.
The lack of bass is entirely a self-inflicted wound by Mercedes. The factory EQ emphasizes the mids (again, the 4" front door speakers) and kills the bass, and my guess is they did that to avoid complaints of rattles. The good news is that buried in all that crappy EQ is a very powerful and capable 14 speaker system with a 600 watt amp and digital signal processing. There are three stout shallow mount subwoofers in the car and they will shake the rearview mirror with no difficulty at all. The mids can be tamed without killing all the highs.
My solution is to put a 7 band graphic equalizer in the glove box, pull power for it from the 12v receptacle in the glove box, and run the output from the EQ into the car's aux in jack, also in the glove box. Run a cable from your smartphone to the input on the EQ and you're in business. The whole install is tool-less and takes about ten minutes.
With the EQ, you just dial up the bass (it will give you more than you'll ever actually want) and push the mids into the basement. Several members have done the mod and I've had nothing but great feedback from very happy guys.
See the write up in my blog (the link is in my sig). I guarantee you'll start listening to music in the car again.
Great. Let me know if you run into any problems. The only hiccup anyone has encountered has been forgetting to run a little jumper wire on the EQ from "Remote" to "12v". The unit won't power on without it. Then get ready for some mo fo bass, and clean highs that won't feel like they're tearing your scalp off.
Does this only work with RCA audio in? I'd like to be able to have the EQ control my FM and Sirius radio output. I don't use my phone for music, but I'd love to change the entire sound for all formats.
My car is a 2007, so I don't have the RCA jacks in my glove box any way. I'm not sure I have any in the car in any location. Do you know of any solutions to run the EQ to control all audio sources?
Does this only work with RCA audio in? I'd like to be able to have the EQ control my FM and Sirius radio output. I don't use my phone for music, but I'd love to change the entire sound for all formats.
My car is a 2007, so I don't have the RCA jacks in my glove box any way. I'm not sure I have any in the car in any location. Do you know of any solutions to run the EQ to control all audio sources?
Short answer is sadly "no". The aux in is the only preamp input, so it's the only source where you can do any post processing like EQ before it gets to the amp. Everything internal on the head unit (FM, XM, Media Interface, SD Card input, USB input) gets sent optically to the amp in the trunk and there's no way to splice into it.
For a global solution you'd need to do as I ended up doing and strategically replace some speakers. Obviously in a 600 you're probably not going to want to flush mount aftermarket tweeters like I did, but the whole speaker upgrade can be done entirely behind the factory grilles and you'd never know anything was touched.
Now you can, of course, get quite a bit of flexibility out of your Aux In if you're willing to use your phone as a source (or buy a dedicated device like an Ipod for the car) and install an outboard EQ. You can get the XM app and stream your account from the phone, there are streaming versions of a lot of FM broadcasts, you have Pandora streaming, Spotify, Rhapsody, Amazon all have streaming subscription services, and of course you can put local files on the device itself.
Could the same thing be achieved by plugging a Tune to Air BT module into the aux port....and stream through a good EQ app through your phone?
Yes and no. Yes on the BT adapter. I use one even with my modded system because it sounds great and it's convenient. No as far as using an EQ app for streaming. I've yet to find a streaming service that would allow a 3rd party EQ app access to the raw audio files.
The apps do work on your local files though, so it would be an easy way to test the effectiveness of EQ. I know you're an Android guy but in my experience I've yet to hear an Android EQ or DSP app that didn't give the sound a very heavily colored "processed" artifact. But there are a ton out there and I didn't try a whole lot. Generally a software EQ app is altering files on the bit level and that's hard to pull off without a really good DSP chipset (like in the Audisen Bit1). Although the new high end Samsung phones may be able to pull it off.
The only software based EQ I've auditioned that added nothing but good EQ is the AudioForge EQ app (IOS). I'm actually on the Beta team for the upcoming release and it's a great sounding, refined app.
On the other hand, the Glove box EQ mod works on everything you run through it...streaming files, local files, etc.
Last edited by Mike5215; Feb 18, 2015 at 08:03 PM.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
