I've got a chipped 211 Bluetec with an engine that I absolutely love. The car's not a race car, but it really gets going after adding a tuning box that works both the common rail and boost sensor about 5 years ago. It's also getting a bit long in the tooth so I've started researching what my next car will be. I know my major requirement is that it's another diesel.

I'm not a big fan of the W212 interior (pre facelift), and I can't bring myself to move to the inline 4 found in the E250 Bluetec. That leaves two major options for a larger 6 Cylinder Diesel Sedan: S350 and BMW 535D (I will not consider any VAG product), with similar used pricing between the models.

The last S-Class I daily drove was a 126. I had both a short wheelbase and a long wheelbase. I prefer the shorter wheelbase, as the longer is a bit of a boat. I know the 221 only comes in LWB in the states, and I know it's already larger than a 560SEL, so I'm a bit concerned about maneuverability. In addition, while they added a twin-scroll turbo to the S350 that produces more TQ and HP than my W211, it also weighs around 800 pounds more, making it considerably slower.

I know the interior kills the 211, but here are my major concerns in summary form:
1) I'd have to budget for aftermarket arnott airmatic struts at some point. I think I can tolerate that.

2) It appears that the revision of the bluetec engine that upped the HP also may have introduced an oil cooler seal issue which causes leaks and requires an expensive replacement. I've been seeing mentions of this on the MB SUV & 221 forums, which I think all used the same revised version of the OM642. My question is.. if this is fixed properly once, does it continue to manifest itself over time, or is it simply a result of faulty original assembly and can be corrected going forward? Are there certain model years or VINs to avoid for this issue? Finally, I didn't see a recall notice, but was there ever one?

3) Seems like these cars have been eating NOX sensors. Mine is pre-urea, so I have no experience with that, but I've read all sorts of posts about people having multiple NOX sensors replaced at a pretty significant cost.

4)Has the 7G-Plus been fully sorted out? Mine had speed sensor problems that required some very expensive fixes, as well as requiring new firmware for rough downshifts specific to the diesel model.

5) Anyone added a tuning box? The claims for various tuners are pretty lofty for this engine revision compared to mine. Wondering if I could get this car to at least match the performance of my much lighter 211

Thanks in advance!

 

Not a lot of guys on this board driving the oil-burners. Why are you so against gas burners? Gas is now cheaper than diesel, makes a lot more power, and seems to have lower maintenance costs. I know the diesel motors seem to run forever, but the gas engines also are very solid in the 221. Most issues with the W221 seem to be centered around Airmatic and the 7G trans. Many of the 7G problems were sorted by the face-lift in 2010....although it's nowhere near as bulletproof as the 5G trans from the S600 and AMG cars.

If you're worried about how they handle, I'd suggest looking for a car with ABC. Cornering is completely flat and the ride is more compliant than Airmatic. With ABC, the S never feels like a boat.

 

Less concerned with being able to take the car around the track than with the ability to make U-turns without making it a 3-point. ABC is something I would never, ever consider. I can barely bring myself to tolerate the added complexity of Airmatic.

As for the gasser consideration.. I just really like the characteristics of diesel engines. Sure, a 450HP twin turbo S550 would be nice, but it's overkill and I can get 80% of the usable power out of a diesel with twice the mileage. How often would I be doing burnouts from a stoplight in an S-Class? The balance between low-end V8 like torque, considerable range, good mileage and the unique driving characteristics of a diesel all combine to make it more desirable to me.

 

Believe it or not, the turning radius in the S-class is pretty good for a large car. I've never had to do a 3 point U-turn. The good thing about the S350 for a buyer of a used one is that you can pick them up for dirt cheap. They just sit on dealer lots because nobody wants them. They often sit for a year or more....new or used. So they are highly discounted.

Unfortunately your numbers regarding power and mileage are quite a bit off when comparing the TT S550 and the turbo S350. The S350 only makes 54% of the horsepower that the S550 makes. And the S350 doesn't even get close to double the mileage. EPA rated highway mileage in the S350 is 31....while the S550 is 25.

I'm not sure why you'd be so scared of ABC. I assume you'd have a warranty with the car....so if anything went bad, the warranty would cover the repair. You should try driving a car with ABC before you knock it. It makes the S handle much better than a 7 series Bimmer....while offering a much nice ride. Yes, ABC is complex. But so is any modern German car.

 

Alright, I seem to have struck a nerve with you here, as you've chosen to ignore my questions and instead parrot the narrative that my choice of diesel is a poor option, which was not what I had intended to get into, but whatever, here are my reasons:

1) When it comes to holding its value, the diesel will retain it much longer. In fact, KBB is showing a 2012 model of an S550 worth 42,040 and a 2012 S350 with a value of 41,964. So with an initial retail price difference of around 10K, they're now worth within 100 bucks of one another (estimated). I bought my E320 with 28K and a couple of years old. at that time, I could have had the 550 version even cheaper. Diesels keep their demand. Only diesel owners will understand that.
2) Mercedes does diesels. Very well. They invented the diesel. They've been the only trusted diesel seller in the states since the 1960s. I like my engine. My engine has been used in everything from taxis, sedans, work trucks and RVs since 2005 and it has a great track record. The recently released TT 4.6 is a sweet engine, I'm sure, but it's still relatively new by MB standards. Given their track record with the grenading 3.5 M272 (and to a lesser extent, the M273), I'm not too keen on trusting their first twin turbo V8 until it's proved itself in the field for quite some time. Take a look at the 126, the number of diesel models on the road probably outnumbers the gasser versions these days by 10:1, despite selling fewer new ones.
3) HP does not tell the whole story. 240HP & 455ft/lbs. Diesels respond well to boxes/chips/ecu flashes. Adding 600 bucks worth of that to it and it'll be approaching 300HP and well over 500ft/lbs, which is more than adequate.
4) Gas is currently dirt cheap. Think that'll last? That's the same thinking that caused everyone to buy gigantic SUVs that they then took a bath on when gas jumped up to 5$ a gallon? Where I live, Diesel is always within a few dozen cents of premium, either above or below, which is negligible.
5) Mileage: I live in a major city with insane traffic. Even with my current car, the tank range is so far that I've never managed to drive an entirely highway trip. The S550 will theoretically get 25MPG on the highway if I stay at a steady 70MPH,stay very light on the throttle and don't get into any traffic situations. My E320 will get 25MPG in full city driving with me driving like a mad man. If I owned an S550, I'd be getting no greater than 14MPG combined, I promise you.

As for ABC... the value provided by ABC versus the cost to maintain creates a very poor value proposition. I will be owning this car outside of warranty, as I have a great independent mechanic so I don't fear visits to the shop. ABC is a complex system intended for the people who pay 120K for these cars and use them for two years before upgrading to the next one. That person is not me. I'm the person that buys it for 25-35% of it's original value 3 years later and gets a great car for the price of a base Hyundai Genesis.

You're clearly not a diesel fan, and that's fine, but I didn't come here to argue the virtues of either version, I came here to find out if anyone had upgraded from one to another.

Thank you.

edit: Just checked for giggles, my bluetec with the same options, year and miles is still worth $1100 more than an E550 (13,807 vs 14,939). E350 is 13,100 if it matters.

 

Well the mpg numbers your state are the rated numbers, but in practice, the 2012 - 2013 S350 gets more than 31 mpg, but not anywhere near 50mpg, unless you are in an area where you can get imperial gallons. Then the numbers go up quite a bit according to some posters on the forum. With the 2012 - 2013 S350, you can get 31 mpg, pretty easily. One other factor, we know the gas pricing will eventually go up again.

 

I have absolutely no problem with the S350 or diesels in general, especially the newer non-stinky clean burning diesel engines. They just aren't popular or very common in the US for car and truck buyers. They are more of a niche here and appeal to a very small group of people is this country. Europe is a different story where oil burners are a lot more common.

Dub's quoted numbers from KBB just aren't accurate (most KBB numbers aren't reliable any way as they're usually very optimistic when it comes to values). It is very true that the diesel models of German cars just sit on dealer lots and take a long time to sell. Thus their resale values suffer as it's harder to find that niche buyer who wants that type of car.

 

Yeah, mine was on the lot for 100 days - worked out for me.

 

I have a 221 bluetec. Picked it up as I need a winter beater. I like it. On to your questions:

The om642 oil cooler seals past 2012 my are supposedly better. They still fail but at a very low rate. Older cars once fixed generally don't re-fail.

The 7g tranny still has sensor issues. The 2009 and later cars are better, but they do fail.

Nox sensors fail on all model year 221 cars. They are about $350 and are covered under the emissions extended factory warranty.

The bluetec cars have another problem and that is the urea injection system- the pump and heater do fail and are expensive to repair.

Hope this helps

 

I had my lower oil seal on the turbo go and had that repaired under warranty, I have had 3 N0x sensors replaced, one I think they installed either incorrectly or it just croaked

 

Car runs great and has very good acceleration due to the huge amount of torque.

 

My 350 gets routinely over 35 mpg on the highway going 70-75 mph. Just a real world data point

 

Any 350 I've seen on ebay are going as cheap as the Hybrid S400's. No one wants them because most uneducated people are SCARED of them. The S550 is the staple model, and that's what most think of when they want an S. Unfortunately.

I'm not going to get into it, but had the last S350 made w140, 1995 and it blew up - runaway diesel. I can't ever go back.

 

I think you should get the S350, with the understanding that there will be some additional repairs coming as described above.
They're not as popular but have their charms. 31 mpg or more for mixed highway and city driving vs 18 I'm seeing now is a major difference. Granted with gas being cheap now it may not add up, but it would be naive to expect things to be different this time. Oil will rebound and then the fuel cost difference could be $1500 per year.
Buying the car now while demand for diesels is low is a good idea.

 

Wrong. The 350 bluetecs are the best money performer in the Mercedes depreciation race. The 550s on the other hand are a money pit surpassed only by the amgs.

 

Actually, just the diff in mpg in daily driving alone was enough for me, far less stops to get fuel in mixed and city, and the car is rated at up to ~775 miles per tank for long continuous trips too at the MB mpg number..

 

I'm not so sure about that. There's a 2012 S350 with under 40k miles at a dealer in my area for under $40k. Clean Carfax too.

 

I did move from a 2007 W211 Bluetec to my current 2013 W221 S350. I think everyone has already addressed the concerns you had. I'll add a few bullets to this:
- The OM642 in the S-class is far quieter and more refined than it ever was in the W211.
- I have not noticed any oil leakage from the turbo to manifold gasket, or in or around the oil separator like there was on the OM642 in my old W211 and many others - no matter how many times I changed gaskets.
- The C(E)/S button on the transmission actually does change the throttle response and shift points.
- The 7G-Tronic plus transmission is better - but still suffers from occasional unrefined moments at low speeds, when the engine is cold. But nothing like the neck whipping downshifting in my W211 Bluetec
- The car while significantly larger than a W211 (esp since the USA market only got the long wheelbase version) , never feels that way. It is still highly maneuverable, and gets around parking lots and garages quite easily.
- For whatever reason, the trunk seems smaller than the W211 - not sure if this is true, it's definitely wider but maybe not as deep due to the false rear bulkhead.

See enclosed photo for a recently airport run I did from the East Bay to SFO. Arrived earlier and was playing with buttons while waiting....surprised that it almost hit 36 MPG (US)....despite the usual traffic hassles.

 

I went from a 2005 W 211 to a 2013 w 221 and love it. Car is much smoother. Have had zero problems. I get about 2 to 5 mpg less, but still average 30 overall. Diesel is much cheaper here in California right now, about a dollar less than premium. Can't even compare the ride between the two cars, as the S is unbelievable. Car still under warranty and has extended warranty.