chargedC32

Hello, I am thinking of purchasing a "large sedan" for my household. Wouldn't be a daily driver (the AMG GT S is my daily), but something to take short trips in and for around town. Figure 300-500 miles a month at most.

Was looking at the 3 major full size sedans: 2008-2010 Audi A8L, 2007-2009 BMW 7 Series (in particular, Alpina B7), and 2007-2008 S550.

I noticed prices of the 2007 S550's dropped faster than a rock in a lake, and seen a few pristine examples for $14-16k with low miles (30-50k; 1-2 owners; slightly optioned with msrp around $100k).

I typically avoid 1st year of any new model, but I cannot stop thinking about what a value the 2007 S550 brings. What is the community's thoughts on a low mileage 2007 S550 for my purposes? What "must have" tech is the 2007 model missing that I would regret not having?

Will Hunt

I would avoid the 2007 for first model year issues as well as the early m273 balance shaft gear failure. But if's low miles, good condition and you don't mind more problem potential than a 2008 and up than I would go for it.

MowgliCSM

There are 07's that fall outside of the balanace shaft issued engines. So I wouldn't rule them out completely. Just look up the VIN number and see if the engine serial number is not included or see if there are service records of the upgraded parts being installed.

BOTUS

first reply almost gets it right, but added additional text, if we edit this is, where you want to be re a 221 "I would avoid "

if you want the best advice available .... "I would avoid - any Mercedes"

if you are nostalgic like the styling or a fan boy get one pre 1990 and nothing later ever

tonylinc

The 2008 S550 I bought in December is like a dream. I have all its service records since new and very little has gone wrong with the car! It's had new brakes and the usual oil changes, antifreeze and brake fluid changes, but very little else. When I purchased it, it ran a little rough it seemed, so I got new spark plugs and while at it, also new ignition coils for good measure! I've kept the old coils because they weren't defective. Turned out an engine mount was causing vibration. What an awesome automobile. I've had Benzos for the last 20 years and the pre-2000 were the ones "made to last forever" with exception of the engine wiring harness issues from about 1993-1996. I used the wiring harness issue to my advantage when I bought my W140 sitting in a field with one window rolled down in the rain, with its engine wiring like a pile of spaghetti atop the engine, Got a great deal on that car because of that. Bought a harness from a 1998 W140 off an ebay seller in Los Angeles for $149 and took an hour to replace the harness. The car ran beautifully and cleaned up great, I drove it a few years and sold it to a friend who still owns the car. But, avoiding any mercedes? Three of my Benzos I have today are post-2000 and they all run like they're new and don't have many issues at all. My 2002 W220 did have some issues that I spent money on fixing, but I still liked the car. My 2004 SL600 is the most incredible car!!! My 2008 GL450 had the ABS wheel speed sensor wiring issue I learned about that after it happened; previous owner had monkeyed the wires up instead of getting the repair kit from Mercedes. Turns out on some of those SUVs the factory tied the wires too tightly and they fray eventually, when that happens you'll know, and Benz has a repair kit they give you if you try to order a full wiring harness replacement for the ABS wheel speed sensor, costing a lot less than the entire harness ) That's been addressed and now the car is like new again. If you like Mercedes, I'd say get one. Look out there, the one you want is out there. There are almost no other cars I would want. I have no fear of cars requiring service. Some people are afraid of Maseratis because they can be costly to keep running. My 2004 4200 Coupe, with 68K miles, looks runs and drive as new, has no oil leak, has no issue whatsoever and never ever has!!! I must have the Golden Midas touch. The SL600 with the V12 did fall victim to the ignition coilpack issue, where one side of the motor goes dead, and replacement part is like $1700 from Mercedes. A guy name Clark in California rebuilds them with better components than they had in 2004, for half the cost. I had mine rebuilt, and while doing the R&R I replaced All 24 of the engine's spark plugs, and came to realize the ones in the engine were original with 88K miles. As the miles go by, slowly the plug gap increases and eventually it becomes more work for the coilpack to make the spark jump the gap. I surmised that old spark plugs are one of the causes of those coilpacks going bad, and I strongly doubt that the one on the other side of the engine will go bad now that I've got all new plugs, Those V12s with 24 plugs - how many owners are going to change their own plugs, at a cost of $15 each, and even more cost when you have a dealer or shop do the job. If that other coilpack does quit, I know what do do. I love these Benzos and I'll never be without at least three or four of them. Then let's talk about crash safety. No one else even comes close.

chargedC32

Since the W220 was made from 1998-2006, are you saying the 1998-2000’s were good, and the 2001-2006’s were no good? What changed during this time?

there is a 2004 S600 , 3 owner all in CA, 43k miles , for $13k. And a 2003 S55, 1 owner, 43k for $16k.. These are tempting too.

Bklyn

Yes. All that he said, and more. I purchased a 2008 S550 4MATIC almost 2 years ago with 125,000. Now has 150,500. LOVE, love, love this car. It is everything I want in a car and more. On trips to NYC from Boston, I can get between 25 and 26 MPG at 70 mph. Only repair was for an oil leak and the power steering cylinder. Cost was $1,829. This is my first car of this type so I know little of the others but I hear that Audis have so many gremlins and BMW is just not to my taste as I am not the ultimate driver.

chargedC32

125k miles!!! Thats bravery.

tonylinc

I don't think buying a Benz with 125K miles on it requires bravery, certainly the older models were made to last "forever" more than the newer ones, there was a point when the bean counters took over the automaker's philosophy, but these German cars are not like American cars where 125K means it's all worn out. I owned a 1982 BMW 7-Series that had 330,000 miles on it and the car looked, ran and drove like it was new, and didn't even use or leak oil. Obviously it had probably never missed an oil change, and care and maintenance make a big difference to a car's longevity. But Most Benz owners while wanting a car with the lowest miles they know a Benz isn't really broken in until it reaches 100K.

BOTUS

people seem muddled these days - the whole business model of a car manufacturer has been evolving (sadly in a sick planet and wallet destroying manner). Go back 30 years they fell to bits and rusted away nicely. They were cheap to build and they had long model cycles (7 to 10 years and almost zero development costs). So were cheap to make, with big profit margins and fell off the road automatically keeping sales stable

now they are ridiculously complex, the model cycle is lucky to hit 2 years and development and manufacturing costs are off the wall. With modern materials, lubricants and processing, if they wanted they'd last for a long time.... but there is no profit and thus ultimately no business like this. So they went and designed them to die. Germany are clearly world leaders in this make them die philosophy. From 95 to 2002 most cars did 15 years... but the cycle is now as fast as 4 to 5 years, before stupid things mean its not cost effective to bother keeping it on the road.

in general - if it was designed and built pre 2002 and is not driven in damp salted roads and gets an oil change then it might last 20 years with little undue cost (and 30 if lucky)
if it was made by Mercedes that break point changes... and you need to step back to 1994

it is exclusively time related. If you buy a brand new car in the first 3 years you can expect it (with appropriate maintenance) to easily hit 500,000 miles with little issue. However after 5 years on any non Japanese brand expect any level of fun at any mileage.

An S class is the perfect example of a model / brand to avoids at all costs. Up to 95 they did last forever …. now they last 4 years, unless you want to keep buying spares to the tune of virtually just buying a brand new car anyway. The key thing is a 221 is a pretty average 2005 car and it drives like one. A new Toyota will actually drive a lot better and will last a lot longer for a lot less cost

tonylinc

I have a 2008 GL450 with 146K miles on it and it runs and drives as new. I also have a 2008 S550 with 134K miles on it and it looks, runs and drives like it was made last October. I think the W220 in particular especially the one I had, needed a lot of repairs, but with the W221 they sorted out most of the issues they were seeming to be prone to. If I'm going to crash, say smashing a new Toyota crashing into a 2008 S Class, I'll take the S-Class. If you disagree then buy a Toyota! I think for the money, a used S Class is the most car you can get and I wouldn't want any brand new car, because of the depreciation. Now, for the guy who knows absolutely nothing about working on and maintaining a car, maybe a new Toyota with a warranty is a better avenue. I can have any cars I want, and my driveway is full of Benzo'z, and I haven't spent many thousands of dollars on them: The S Class was about $100,000 new and still looks like a new car, yet I paid around ten thousand, and my GL450 looks much like a new one, even at 12 years old? And cost $90K new, and I paid ten. What other car brand can you do that with. Even my 2004 SL600 looks like she was born last month and with 89K miles runs like it was made last year, and cost $130,000 new yet I paid about $17,000 for that car! I absolutely LOVE how the depreciation on these cars makes them affordable.

chargedC32

cars didnt have as many electronics, sensors, computers, etc back in the day...which is the bulk of most repairs on cars these days across any manufacturer
and they definitely used better materials on all the wear & tear items

chargedC32

just taking a look at the first few pages of the W221 subforum section, 95% of the threads are about problems, issues, repairs, and the related

Bklyn

Ha! From, your lips to Gods ears. I hope this car lasts. If I polish it up and vacuum it, it looks brand new. The previous owner took very good care of the car. I love it. Really, the question is simple; if you have a 550, how can you possibly go to another car.

Bklyn

Nooo, just lack of brains. I am willing to put in the maintenance and I change the oil every 5,000 miles without fail. ($156.00 plus tax) My one big expense was that the seat did not work as far as the different airbags that fill up and deflate based upon how you set them. The active side bolsters did not work. It cost me, a fortune but I really wanted to get it done. I LOVE that car. How can one not. My only gripe is that it is almost 17 feet long but I have gotten used to maneuvering it in tight spaces. Really now, that car and be in 2 states at the same time. Aside from that, when you put it on the road and do about 75 on a great highway, it is wonderful. I get almost 26 MPH on there highway. Not too bad.

Polar Bear

I would debate that a late model Mercedes-Benz is on the cutting edge of technology, and with that, one should expect glitches from time to time with the electronics. The balance shaft issue was something that should have been recalled IMO.

However, as the saying goes, one must pay to play, and many individuals had rather spend the extra maintenance cost (as long as they know that is a factor up front) and the additional price for the vehicle than drive a brand that is commonly referred to as "the most boring car" to drive and is a machine that has a single purpose - to get from Point A to Point B. In the former, it is about the journey.

BOTUS

thanks for taking my the response in the right spirit....

re balancer shaft issues, agree in USA it was done correctly, FYI across the whole of Europe (with 500 million people) it was kept dead secret and the owners had to pay out (just like most issues on all brands of car) . We only know about any of the free mega extras USA customers get from forums like this one.

Another example, the Ford Focus with the DSG (powershift twin clutch box) had issues from birth, with a poor casting allowing gearbox oil on the clutch and juddering like hell. The fix requiring the whole box to be changed (2007 to 2011, I think). Then it turns out the control module was faulty (fixed by 2014), the software went through many revisions (finally writing something worth having by 2015) and the clutches went through three sets of friction material / resign (fixed by mid 2016). This 11 plus year saga was NEVER known to a single customer in the UK. Most sold on the car.... Cars built post June 2016 worldwide have all the bugs out. Yet in the USA and Australia all customers got a new gear box, new clutches, control module and software update FOC. Ford UK secretly extended the warranty to 5 years but told no one they did it, and where a more technically savy owner is on the case dealers just tell you to go away....

And whilst I agree many Toyotas are boring and the CVT means many are not worth having. Since the third gen Mr Toyoda took on command of his grandfathers company he is moving back to good cars rather than good food mixers. The next vital point is few cars are enjoyable anymore as any cost or across any brand.

Many European cars around the 1995 where the best, compliant long travel suspension, relatively light weight, fun to drive, great handling and with a natural flowing gait .... on big luxo cars culminating in the BMW E39 as probably the best blend of weight, safety and comfort realised. But the world has gone wrong. We allowed public transport to get too expensive and stupidly threw most freight from trains onto lorries. In 30 years we’ve created joke jobs forcing anyone of any skill on the roads, there is too much traffic and too many bad drivers. Creating carnage and congestion all the way... Manufacturers “helped improving vehicle safety” but realised an opportunity to market selling safer cars, was the way to really implement a secret agenda making them “designed to fail” Of course doing it in ways that will be hard for lawyers and consumer group campaigners to prove in court !!!

I’m all for safer cars, but just making them heavy is damaging the planet. And a heavy car falls off the road far more easily, so we have to upgrade everything and add so much electronics that they aren’t enjoyable anymore (regardless of the brand). Most of that is in combating appalling driving skills. Designers noticed an additional benefit from the crash testing was that it had brought in far stiffer body shells and they found you could now fit stiff suspension, tyres 3 inches wider than we used to have and alongside the computers, it meant any idiot just needs to turn the steering wheel in the right direction and regardless of speed it will go there.

But it brings in huge weight gains.... New Euro NCAP crash testing in the 90’s and the world suddenly changed. Since the early 1970s all a car had to do was crash head on with both chassis legs taking the full hit at 30mph and look bit like a car afterwards, and basically anything passed. Euro NCAP put an electronic dummy in the car and drove one chassis leg into the accident at 40 mph. In this scenario it turns out everyone always dies in any car we made except a 1980s S class.

The impact of this was so severe most manufactures had to change tack overnight. At the time 1* = death 2* = almost guaranteed death 3* was as good as anything out there and 5* was a dream yet to be realised. My GM Omega B was developed in 1993 and got 3*. Yet a complete redesign of what was the best car in the world at the time, creating the new 2003 5 series E60 struggled to get 2*. It was such a death trap it was stopped before global production ever started. It was put on hold for three months as a series of bodge on safety fixes were added. The re test showed the BMW developed 9 years after the Omega (that had been designed before Euro NCAP existed) and post 3 months of safety fixes specifically to address the shocking criticism by Euro NCAP was still much more dangerous than the Omega. Since then Side impact testing came in, showing that everyone dies... the fix has added 9” to each side of all new cars since 2014, and more recently the rear end crash testing has meant another redesign at the back (because if your are hit from behind in any car made before 2015 all your children die).

Anyway the point being 1000lbs of safety junk has meant every wheel needs a computer, the engine and gearbox needs a computer and regardless of who make it.... most cars are miserable, woeful, anti- fun disasters that aren’t actually pleasant to be in. The fix for this is to add more and more multimedia junk. I scrapped my Omega, it lasted 17 years (aside from oil, filter and tyre changes.... the only costs in its life was one instrument bulb $1 and 25 minutes to fit, one failed ABS module repaired for $200, 2 heater valves 10 minutes to change and $30 each and one second hand cooling fan for the AC). On the drive to throw it away it was so much better to drive than my S 221, if I had the funds I would literally have gone home swapped the cars and gladly squashed the S class

tonylinc

I like the S Class because it is comfortable and safe and it makes the neighbors believe I am in the Mafia. It makes them all safer because if they thought I was just an average guy, they might provoke me and that could become dangerous. So, we are all safer. I wouldn't take an Oldsmobile Omega if you gave it to me for free. OKAY, Maybe, if it had low miles, ...I could give it away to that 1-877-CARS 4 KIDS or something. If you have an S-Class and you don't like it, you could sell it and look on Craigslist for an Oldsmobile. Are they still making cars? I thought I heard a few years back, they quit making them. Now, a late 1960s Oldsmobile, those were nice comfortable cars.

BOTUS

Very few European cars are related to USA ones, the Vauxhall / Opel Omega B, is in many ways most similar to the Australian Holden Commadore https://www.carfolio.com/specificati...ar/?car=250921 (which I believe was shipped from Australia to South Africa and back to America as a Chevrolet). Sadly these last great cars are no more, as the Australian's paid themselves 3 x a USA car worker and Holden, Ford and Toyota all pulled out from manufacturing there in late 2016

I remembered a point about Euro NCAP that gives an insight to my ramblings....

many new cars sold in Europe get 5* now, and bad ones get 4*, most don't buy anything lower.
4x4s are another story, as the crash regs for these was always totally different (based on a van). Much inferior and far lower than the appallingly low 1970s car standards. Whilst many wrongly think 4x4 s are tough, they are so deadly its hard to believe possible… I think with the X5 the world moved and latest stuff will be much better but they are mostly killers

Its a shame so few USA cars come to Europe that testing is rare in the European programme... but to give you a heads up of the last shocking car they tested a 2017 Ford Mustang, received the lowest score they had in over 10 years

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/ford/mustang/26063



they've never tested an S class, but a 1998 E class got 4*, sadly videos weren't about, here's the Nissan with a Merc badge

BOTUS

someone just said I should write what I was thinking when I bought mine.

I was after a fast, powerful, rear drive, comfortable and ultra reliable car that would last forever and had lots of toys.

with the exception of some toys that is not a modern S class,

Mine was like new, one previous rich owner, full service history at premier Merc dealer near me and had 40k miles when I got it... (it was over 140k US$ in this spec)
mine is by far the most unreliable car I ever owned by a factor of at least 20 x. If you can turn the key without a warning light its a win. I used to be motor vehicle tech on Jags and RR, never before on my own car have I had to touch the brakes (other than a disc or pad change) this thing at 45 k needed new front brake calipers because 7 of the 8 pistons where seized solid, never touched the suspension other than tracking, but this I've had 6 suspension arms, an air compressor, and levels sensors all round, it needs new airbags on each strut, a new front antiroll bar and new diff mounts.

The seats being heated, vented, massage, active dynamic $1500 each options, are the most uncomfortable I ever sat in. A ford Focus gets perfect seats and is a joy to drive. This gives me lower back pain and cramps in my shoulders, I bought a lumbar pad to compensate for the fact even with 21 x 5 different lumbar set points, its ALL in totally the wrong place. Aside from the power its horrid to drive. The ambience is OK but is ride and handling is pathetic. Closer to a lorry with flat tyres.
the infotainment is unique to this car meaning its very difficult to fix / or add the right toys

The auto box is a bag of nails (same on any 7g box), why Mercedes insist on trying to make their own I don't know. ZF are a competent European gearbox supplier, Mercedes are not. The active cruise control is a woeful disaster in comparison to that of my previous BMW, the throttle application is all wrong, but that was transformed with a software update. It is now all wrong the opposite way (too little acceleration) and the brakes that were perfectly judged are a disaster. It now overreacts under braking, mostly forgetting it should, then if lucky standing on the brakes in a scruffy fashion.

Todays extras, I forgot it needed an AC condenser too, never done than in any of my cars before. The Ford focus is driven all year in salty roads during the winder and never washed, its done 3 x the mileage and has its original brakes, suspension and AC condenser and works better then an pampered s class. Its fun to drive and comfortable. Each time I get in I am shocked how this worn out and abused wreck is such a great car to be in.

I will never own another Mercedes in my life.... its the most uncomfortable and unreliable car I have ever known of

simandang

I am in the same boat, I have a bunch of different cars I want to keep the miles off so I am looking at a nice cheap fourth car. I am considering the w221 or the RR from 07-09 SC.

About 2 years I did the same thing with a 2010 750li with 110k miles. I picked it up for $7000 at auction from Chicago, drove it back to NYC. Spent about $4000 fixing it up, needed a bunch of things done. After doing the work I drove it for another 20k miles with ZERO issues and traded it in on a 2014 G63.

I don't know how to turn a wrench but I have some good friends that are mechanics, have their own shops, etc. I do know how to diagnose/troubleshoot/read the forums, and I always have the diagnostic tools to find out what the issue is. I order all my own parts, even brakes, rotors, oil filters and take them to my friends shops and pay them friend labor to install them. Even more complex repairs I know a few good shops that are 70% the dealer.

If you dont know how to diagnose/have time to read up on issues or know any shops and only know the dealer a car like this will be the worst choice you can make.

my two cents

OnlyGerman

W221 is solid, much more reliable than a A8 or & 7 series from its time. I was once told to avoid the 2007 for engine and transmission issue. I would look for a 2010, they are all cheap now.

Donnymac

Not if maintenance is done by the book or more often as to fluid changes.

Car art is built to be run, not pampered.

OnlyGerman

The w220 were absolute garbage. They do not compare to the w221. Nothing but cheap plastic in the w220. Let’s just try to forget Mercedes even made the w220...the w140 is stated as the most over engineered and true Mercedes.

OnlyGerman

agreed. People get scared too easily after 100k, the car is not going to fall apart. 120k is NOTHING.