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So a few weeks ago I changed a passenger side HID bulb, it went purple on me. It was easy to change.
Few days ago the driver side decided to do the same. Rock Auto sends me a Holoway brand, even though I paid for a Philips bulb like before. Go figure. Made in Germany it said on the box so I decided to just put it in.
I tried to take the driver side wheel off to access the bulb that way, thats when I realize that the MB wrench that came with the car does not fit the 17mm hex type lug nuts on my Sport amg wheels the car came with. WTF, how is it the lug wrench not right from factory.
I then tried to gain access from the hood. I try to move the water reservoir away, but was afraid of breaking things as mentioned in some of the videos on Youtube so I left it alone.
Took the car to a shop, all the lug nuts came out but one, it was a bit stripped so we didnt want to destroy is all the way. By the way, all the brake pads were changed 2 weeks ago with EBC pads. Love the no dust action. Some how the guy was able to move the fender lining enough to change the bulb.
SO now , I have to get a few lug nuts, have the tire shop remove the bad lug nut and purchase a right socket to be able to remove the wheels if I am ever stuck on the road with no way to remove the wheel.
because the hub to wheel is all made wrongly, the wheel sits eccentric (rather than concentric) so when the animal blasts in one bolt with an impact wrench - and at least one of the other holes in the wheels are now very misaligned to the hub
so you undo the tight bolt and fit all 5 by hand then snug down and check how out of true the wheel is - OH NO sorry I forgot, you cross thread two studs, completely strip one and get a spare out of the locking nut bolt set, its OK the other three are probably going to hold it on
I see many of these on Amazon and all of them have multiple bad reviews about not fitting in the wheels, stripping the bolt or some other nonsense. Is this particular one known to work well with the S550 18" wheels? I have been using a standard 17mm with non-marring plastic coating but I feel like it would be better to have the correct flower pattern.
I see many of these on Amazon and all of them have multiple bad reviews about not fitting in the wheels, stripping the bolt or some other nonsense. Is this particular one known to work well with the S550 18" wheels? I have been using a standard 17mm with non-marring plastic coating but I feel like it would be better to have the correct flower pattern.
This is the one I purchased and it fits perfectly on the lug nuts.
I see many of these on Amazon and all of them have multiple bad reviews about not fitting in the wheels, stripping the bolt or some other nonsense. Is this particular one known to work well with the S550 18" wheels? I have been using a standard 17mm with non-marring plastic coating but I feel like it would be better to have the correct flower pattern.
You are correct. I actually just wrote a negative review and initiated a return for an OEM Tools socket I ordered in where the lug bolt head would only insert halfway into the socket, rather than all the way. I got my front wheels off and back on using it while putting new tires on the front a couple weeks ago, but the socket did mar the lug bolt heads and I was extra cautious when torquing them down with this socket. Not happy and certainly this cannot be normal.
Sadly, I purchased another brand socket that was built slightly different (so not the same tool re-branded) yet still would only insert halfway onto the bolt heads. So I'm not sure what to do at this point. Certainly the bolt head should recess completely inside the socket, and this is not normal. I don't understand it.
I didn't get pics of the bolts when they were out, I was going to but was in a hurry. You can still see the marring indicating the depth in the pic I just took of the bolt in the wheel. Any ideas from anyone else?
This is the one I purchased and it fits perfectly on the lug nuts.
Looks like you got lucky and got the good one. I'll order it and report back. I'm certain my lug bolts are factory, so long as the bolts have what appear to be a fitted chrome cap over the stainless bolt head. There is slight play when twisting the bolt head and the shaft.
I see many of these on Amazon and all of them have multiple bad reviews about not fitting in the wheels, stripping the bolt or some other nonsense. Is this particular one known to work well with the S550 18" wheels? I have been using a standard 17mm with non-marring plastic coating but I feel like it would be better to have the correct flower pattern.
on the W221 (and some others) the stainless headed security bolts CAN ONLY be undone without damaging the fastener using one of these sockets - aside from the special cut-out in each of the 6 hex face surfaces these are 17.4mm diameter so an undamaged snap on 17mm hex or double hex socket can not fit !
the special tool is NOT suitable for conventional 17 mm headed bolts
of course the worm impact socket at animals are us tyre fitters - easily goes over the 17.1mm and destroys it
each time they work on the car one spare goes missing
So what is the solution? I ordered the socket WHPH28 mentioned and it'll be here tomorrow. So far, both the sockets I bought (in the photo above) fit just the same, horribly. They only slide halfway onto the bolt head, and with lots of resistance.
don't let others touch the car - the only way to ensure they don't trash the hub and make the wheels fall off - is to either sit and watch they fit each bolt by hand before tightening and argue as they hate you (not great if you want them to do a good job) or DIY.
because the wheel is a wobbly fit to the hub, its why they always fully seat one bolt before attempting to hammer in all the others - on a conventional car the wheel either sits fully square with no bolts and or nearly does, so your foot's just holding the bottom of the wheel to the hub face enough you can easily wind all the bolts by hand and it all lines up as the wheel rotates on the hub centre the moment the first bolt (or nut) seats. But on the 221 (and I guess all other Mercedes?) the wheel keeps trying to fall off and its "NOT" light so they hammer in the bolt and that slop causes it to be all out of sorts...
I first realised when having a set of tyres done and the guy cross threaded three bolts on one wheel and two on another and the air gun ran out of power trying to cross thread another.... He'd trashed one bolt totally and just opened the glove box to get another bolt out, like they do it every day... when I realised he had just taken my last spare !!!! I'm like WTF where do the other 3 go ??? then realised it had been to another workshop where they'd had the wheels off just recently!!! I said stop leave it with 4 I'll do the job myself at hone... Went to a local engineering shop and got a 14mm tap and die - but there was no way on hell I could get the tap in without it immediately wanting to snap.
I couldn't believe what was happening, I jacked up the car, took off the wheel off and the thread looks like new ???????? The bolt is trashed but the hub was OK, so I started the tap by hand and ended up winding it in with no issue at all, going full depth on the tap by hand without picking up any swarf or thread material. I'm scratching my head WTH...... Put the wheel back on and couldn't get one of them in again !!!! got the glasses on and the torch and went well no wonder, its NOTHING like close to being aligned. The bolt hole is at least 1/2 blind. I'm like how .... then I realised the wobbly fit and the fact its all eccentric..
So you have to hold the wheel's weight and put all bolts in by hand ... and end up trying to guess how to stop the wheels all running eccentric - then do them up, tight as !!!
NOTE: all four hubs and two sets of genuine wheels the Original 17" and a set of OEM 18" are all like this on each corner. There's a long thread dating back to the vehicle launch on this forum, where people end up claiming the wheels are the cause of constant wheel vibration / balance issues... but no one seemed to spot its the fit to the hub that's driving the issues...
don't let others touch the car - the only way to ensure they don't trash the hub and make the wheels fall off - is to either sit and watch they fit each bolt by hand before tightening and argue as they hate you (not great if you want them to do a good job) or DIY.
because the wheel is a wobbly fit to the hub, its why they always fully seat one bolt before attempting to hammer in all the others - on a conventional car the wheel either sits fully square with no bolts and or nearly does, so your foot's just holding the bottom of the wheel to the hub face enough you can easily wind all the bolts by hand and it all lines up as the wheel rotates on the hub centre the moment the first bolt (or nut) seats. But on the 221 (and I guess all other Mercedes?) the wheel keeps trying to fall off and its "NOT" light so they hammer in the bolt and that slop causes it to be all out of sorts...
I first realised when having a set of tyres done and the guy cross threaded three bolts on one wheel and two on another and the air gun ran out of power trying to cross thread another.... He'd trashed one bolt totally and just opened the glove box to get another bolt out, like they do it every day... when I realised he had just taken my last spare !!!! I'm like WTF where do the other 3 go ??? then realised it had been to another workshop where they'd had the wheels off just recently!!! I said stop leave it with 4 I'll do the job myself at hone... Went to a local engineering shop and got a 14mm tap and die - but there was no way on hell I could get the tap in without it immediately wanting to snap.
I couldn't believe what was happening, I jacked up the car, took off the wheel off and the thread looks like new ???????? The bolt is trashed but the hub was OK, so I started the tap by hand and ended up winding it in with no issue at all, going full depth on the tap by hand without picking up any swarf or thread material. I'm scratching my head WTH...... Put the wheel back on and couldn't get one of them in again !!!! got the glasses on and the torch and went well no wonder, its NOTHING like close to being aligned. The bolt hole is at least 1/2 blind. I'm like how .... then I realised the wobbly fit and the fact its all eccentric..
So you have to hold the wheel's weight and put all bolts in by hand ... and end up trying to guess how to stop the wheels all running eccentric - then do them up, tight as !!!
NOTE: all four hubs and two sets of genuine wheels the Original 17" and a set of OEM 18" are all like this on each corner. There's a long thread dating back to the vehicle launch on this forum, where people end up claiming the wheels are the cause of constant wheel vibration / balance issues... but no one seemed to spot its the fit to the hub that's driving the issues...
ITS BAD ENGINEERING AT BIRTH
.
This explains the faint vibration I get at 50. No mount of road force balancing can solve it. Since the guy couldn't take out the last bolt and just put the other ones back in, I now feel it even more.
So what to do in the long run? What tools to take if I ever get a flat on a road trip??
The 17mm flower socket just arrived and it does it does not fit. It doesnt go over any of them,
The wheels are Lug-centric. Lot's of cars are. Snug all lugs to center the wheel, lower the car til the tire makes contact with the ground enough to keep the wheel from turning while you torque them to spec, then lower the car. No big deal. The issue we STILL seem to have (old threads addressing the same issue with no ultimate solution) is what socket works!
My THIRD socket will arrive tomorrow. I'll post right away the results. So far, I'm in $60 in sockets and nothing works. I don't understand this.
And BOTUS has thoroughly described the reason I always only bring loose wheels and tires to my tire shop. I don't want those grease monkeys messing with the car itself.
Hear hear Senecat an BOTUS..I learned the hard way. OP, Once you get YOUR lug bolts and YOUR Socket, don’t let others touch them unless you bring your socket AnD written instructions on how to mount tighten and torque (bring the spec, they mostly guess, and watch them.
Otherwise more issues.
There doesn't seem to be any definitive solution to the Flower Head style bolt. I found these two threads that are probably as good as it's going to get as this has been a hashed-out issue for years. The second link has a response from what seems to be an MB tech who mentions a spline-drive 17mm being what they use at the dealership, which suggests not even dealerships have a proper tool for these. I'm going to order the socket in the first link if the one that arrives tomorrow doesn't fit. If that doesn't work, I'll order a dedicated 17mm deep spline drive socket and call it a day. I'm over this.
This explains the faint vibration I get at 50. No mount of road force balancing can solve it. Since the guy couldn't take out the last bolt and just put the other ones back in, I now feel it even more.
So what to do in the long run? What tools to take if I ever get a flat on a road trip??
The 17mm flower socket just arrived and it does it does not fit. It doesnt go over any of them,
in the pictures in posts above (one a really good close up of the Bolt head design), you can see its all mangled - if you have these wheel nuts (I believe Std fit on the W221) yet others have attacked the car for years using a normal 17mm impact socket, the stainless bit gets damaged and the correct tool will no longer fit either easily / or at all.
The issue is the stainless bit can fall off as a result of the damage - and I guess you might get stuck struggling to get the wheel off, if your tool at the roadside slips or won't go on - and if you have the std mercedes locking wheel bolts, then you need a 17mm conventional socket to undo the locking wheel nut
I posted a bit about this special socket on a UK forum 5 years back when I found it - after being unable to get my snap on 17mm socket to fit a single nut on the car - then they all replied I was an idiot and no such socket exists - yet its now common even in small motorist outlets
the easiest check is either a new bolt and or one of the spares in the locking bolt set. the correct tool will fit an undamaged bolt perfectly. I did discover a "Draper Expert" socket with far bigger "flank drive" cut-out in the hex corners than snap on use. It fits either bolt head, but not sure how much torque or where it puts in on the stainless one's....
Baloney. Mercedes OE wheels are hub centric. Period.
Aftermarket … who knows.
the W221 and C216 wheels are NOT centric to anything, they are a sloppy mess (and that's why so many cross thread the bolts) and we've all had this wheel shimmy experience that comes and goes.
when a vehicle goes round any corner, every wheel on the car takes a different radius. so the wheels all sit in a random rotational position at any time, so the eccentric fit is a different game every drive. If you got lucky and one lucks out concentric after some work on the car the amount of wobble changes... if we had the correct wheel to hub relationship, we'd never have either fault.
OP and others, this Flower socket is what I carry in the trunk with a breaker bar for emergency use , not all roadside service have these. Also used for seasonal tire change over to Summer tires.
Baum tools.
OP and others, this Flower socket is what I carry in the trunk with a breaker bar for emergency use , not all roadside service have these. Also used for seasonal tire change over to Summer tires.
Baum tools. https://www.amazon.com/Baum-Tools-00...54&sr=8-1&th=1
I keep mine in my trunk too and I go to the same shop for my tires on every car so they know the ins and outs. If for some reason I have to go to another shop if I am not in the area, I will leave the socket on the front seat. The red one I posted works well for me and I have had no issues with it at all (knock on wood).
Wow. Didn't realize this was such a fiasco. Well, I'm not too proud to admit that I have been using a regular 17mm (thin wall, with the plastic coating) and have had no issues at all. I've had all wheels off at least once and the rears off at least twice. Haven't had any issues with:
The heads of the lug bolts
Fitment of the wheel (yes lug bolts are annoying but I noticed nothing different about the way the wheels go on compared to my E55)
02-10-2022, 04:31 PM
