Is a partial facelift possible?
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 87
Likes: 34
From: Slovakia
2011 E350 CDI 4Matic, Rover 75, Chevy K2500, 2 motorcycles
Is a partial facelift possible?
Hi folks,
I'm a new guy. I don't have an MB yet, but the short list has gotten really short - 2011-2012 E350 Cdi or 2009-2010 S350 CDi.
One E350 CDi is a 4Matic Kombi with air suspension, the other is the sedan with roughly the same equipment.
The S350 L Cdi I'm considering is not 4Matic. It has all the facelift options - including the correct facelift tail lights - EXCEPT the facelift style LED strip lights at the lower front corners. It has the same semi-triangular fog lights (or driving lights?) as the pre-facelift cars. Is this correct? Did some facelift cars have pre-facelift front ends? This one is registered as built in 2009.
Thanks,
Glenn
I'm a new guy. I don't have an MB yet, but the short list has gotten really short - 2011-2012 E350 Cdi or 2009-2010 S350 CDi.
One E350 CDi is a 4Matic Kombi with air suspension, the other is the sedan with roughly the same equipment.
The S350 L Cdi I'm considering is not 4Matic. It has all the facelift options - including the correct facelift tail lights - EXCEPT the facelift style LED strip lights at the lower front corners. It has the same semi-triangular fog lights (or driving lights?) as the pre-facelift cars. Is this correct? Did some facelift cars have pre-facelift front ends? This one is registered as built in 2009.
Thanks,
Glenn
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,322
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S500
stolen / accident damaged
the obvious external points are very different door mirrors (squared off) the older one's look nicer, the strange (but you get used to them) and they look less dated all red tail lights (you don't want budget Chinese knockoffs) and as you say the LED strips on the headlights - not yellow dim 5w side lights. Then INSIDE fold down the flap under the heater bottoms and look to see if there is a removable caddy to pull out the hardrive on the comand unit
if its a facelift you get in europe 7 digit postcode entry for correct input of addresses in the UK... for some silly reason everywhere else in the world you need to add the road and the location along the road - different menus on the comand unit (blue background) , and petrol stations show by brand etc,
if you find RCA phone connectors in the glove lox its an old car
the obvious external points are very different door mirrors (squared off) the older one's look nicer, the strange (but you get used to them) and they look less dated all red tail lights (you don't want budget Chinese knockoffs) and as you say the LED strips on the headlights - not yellow dim 5w side lights. Then INSIDE fold down the flap under the heater bottoms and look to see if there is a removable caddy to pull out the hardrive on the comand unit
if its a facelift you get in europe 7 digit postcode entry for correct input of addresses in the UK... for some silly reason everywhere else in the world you need to add the road and the location along the road - different menus on the comand unit (blue background) , and petrol stations show by brand etc,
if you find RCA phone connectors in the glove lox its an old car
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 87
Likes: 34
From: Slovakia
2011 E350 CDI 4Matic, Rover 75, Chevy K2500, 2 motorcycles
Thanks BOTUS. That is quite a list. I suspect now that it's had either the headlights & fog lights or the tail lights replaced. Either way, I'll pass.
Glenn
Glenn
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,322
Likes: 1,678
S500
distronic plus is the toy you want for today's world... (you spot this by the funny black shiny bit in the grill...)
bumpers did change between trim levels - these things eat money like no other car....
bumpers did change between trim levels - these things eat money like no other car....
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 87
Likes: 34
From: Slovakia
2011 E350 CDI 4Matic, Rover 75, Chevy K2500, 2 motorcycles
Yeah, that eating money thing keeps me leaning toward the E350 CDi's.
Thanks,
Glenn
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,322
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S500
need to be aware the old tech used on ADAS (advanced driver assist systems) can get LOTS of interference from other vehicles - ford, jag, nissan and renault all shout back - quite a few owners find the audible nag something is trying to confuse the car very disturbing... seems to be worse due to the prevalence of blind spot assist in the USA because you let people undertake - the rest of the world only allows overtaking on the drivers side....
also need to realise Germans make cars that are fundamentally competent but have been designed to last for a much shorter timeline - by 1990 the idea an abused merc lasted 30 years, changed to a pampered one still looks good 10 years in, but you better enjoy the spares counter and DIY every weekend
last 15 years - korean and japanse always in the top 20%, anything german always in the bottom 20% for reliability
also need to realise Germans make cars that are fundamentally competent but have been designed to last for a much shorter timeline - by 1990 the idea an abused merc lasted 30 years, changed to a pampered one still looks good 10 years in, but you better enjoy the spares counter and DIY every weekend
last 15 years - korean and japanse always in the top 20%, anything german always in the bottom 20% for reliability
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 87
Likes: 34
From: Slovakia
2011 E350 CDI 4Matic, Rover 75, Chevy K2500, 2 motorcycles
Thanks BOTUS,
Yeah, I've had Nissan/Infiniti for the past 20 or so years. Can't beat Japanese for quality & reliability. Or Chevy GMT400 trucks, either. Still have one long term. Over here the roads are dominated by the Germans - VAG mostly with BMW/Merc making up the rest and a smattering of French to stay far, far away from. Everything is diesel.
The VAG 3.0 TDi all need timing chains replaced (at the back of the engines), the MB 200/220/250 CDi all need timing chains replaced (also at the back of the engines, but can be done without engine removal if early enough and guides aren't beaten up). The MB 3.0 CDi (OM642) - the newer ones (2011-2012) usually don't need timing chains and the 2012 sometimes have the updated oil cooler seals. So, with that engine, it can usually stay in the car. BMW big diesels don't seem to have many problems, but the cars themselves, particularly the 7's, don't seem to be any better than the W221, maybe worse.
There are some Infiniti's here, but they use Renault diesels. The 5.0 gas V8's also need timing chain replacement, ugly job.
Thanks,
Glenn
Yeah, I've had Nissan/Infiniti for the past 20 or so years. Can't beat Japanese for quality & reliability. Or Chevy GMT400 trucks, either. Still have one long term. Over here the roads are dominated by the Germans - VAG mostly with BMW/Merc making up the rest and a smattering of French to stay far, far away from. Everything is diesel.
The VAG 3.0 TDi all need timing chains replaced (at the back of the engines), the MB 200/220/250 CDi all need timing chains replaced (also at the back of the engines, but can be done without engine removal if early enough and guides aren't beaten up). The MB 3.0 CDi (OM642) - the newer ones (2011-2012) usually don't need timing chains and the 2012 sometimes have the updated oil cooler seals. So, with that engine, it can usually stay in the car. BMW big diesels don't seem to have many problems, but the cars themselves, particularly the 7's, don't seem to be any better than the W221, maybe worse.
There are some Infiniti's here, but they use Renault diesels. The 5.0 gas V8's also need timing chain replacement, ugly job.
Thanks,
Glenn
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,322
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S500
USA just did a class action lawsuit against MB for self destructing pistons on the diesel stuff...
early 4x4 w221 came with a dodgy bearing in the transfer case
early v8s came with chocolate cam sprocket
early v6s came with chocolate balancer sprockets
v8 have semi chocolate coil packs
v12 come with pre melted mortgage you house coil packs and a chocolate gearbox that needs rebuilding every-time the throttle is opened more then 6%
all the current models have chocolate cam chains
early 4x4 w221 came with a dodgy bearing in the transfer case
early v8s came with chocolate cam sprocket
early v6s came with chocolate balancer sprockets
v8 have semi chocolate coil packs
v12 come with pre melted mortgage you house coil packs and a chocolate gearbox that needs rebuilding every-time the throttle is opened more then 6%
all the current models have chocolate cam chains
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Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 87
Likes: 34
From: Slovakia
2011 E350 CDI 4Matic, Rover 75, Chevy K2500, 2 motorcycles
Thanks for all your information, BOTUS. I do appreciate it.
So, define early, if you would. I would say pre-2009 for most things.
I think most of your list pertains to the gasoline engines. That said, I do know about timing chain/tensioner/guide problems with the early OM642. BUT, I thought that had been corrected by 2009-2010. Or not? Certainly there isn't any routine timing chain replacements around here now as compared with on the 2.1 diesel (OM651?) or VW 3.0 TDi.
All told, it seems my initial wariness for the W221 is justified. It's a shame because I would appreciate the additional space of the bigger car. I also wasn't sure about if the E Class would be big enough to suit us. It seemed somehow small when we sat in it. I did a comparison with our old 2003 Maxima last night and discovered that while the headroom is an inch lower, the rest of the interior parameters are equal or an inch or three larger than the Maxima. We found that was big enough in that neither of us ever remarked anything about it being small.
So, define early, if you would. I would say pre-2009 for most things.
I think most of your list pertains to the gasoline engines. That said, I do know about timing chain/tensioner/guide problems with the early OM642. BUT, I thought that had been corrected by 2009-2010. Or not? Certainly there isn't any routine timing chain replacements around here now as compared with on the 2.1 diesel (OM651?) or VW 3.0 TDi.
All told, it seems my initial wariness for the W221 is justified. It's a shame because I would appreciate the additional space of the bigger car. I also wasn't sure about if the E Class would be big enough to suit us. It seemed somehow small when we sat in it. I did a comparison with our old 2003 Maxima last night and discovered that while the headroom is an inch lower, the rest of the interior parameters are equal or an inch or three larger than the Maxima. We found that was big enough in that neither of us ever remarked anything about it being small.
