Max3732

I was pretty much set to buy a new S560, but was doing more research and found a S600 with the colors I wanted. Along with the V12, every S600 comes standard with all the options I was going to put on the S560.

It says it's a 1 owner, low miles car with no accidents and it looks good in the pictures. Going with the S600 would be a significant savings over a new S560. Obviously the new 560 has the updates from the mid cycle refresh (that I'd take if you gave them to me, but aren't hugely important to me) and is a couple years newer.

I can't find much info on the S600, as most reviews focus on the Mayback version. Is this engine reliable? Any major problems with the S600 vs. the refreshed ones?

Wolfman

S600 is a fantastic car with a great engine. The engine design is quite old, but still current and quite reliable. The same engine is used in the 2018 Maybach (non-US) and the 65 series AMG cars (the AMG engine is a bit different for more torque/HP but the same design).
These are wonderful cars that you should never attempt to own without proper warranty. The car will require more maintenance due to it's higher torque. Typical service parts that will cost you thousands if no warranty: spark plugs, ignition coils, engine mounts.

That said, owning any S-Class without warranty is unwise.

Any V12 will be fun to drive. Lokomotive-level torque And they are typically fully loaded from the get-go...

Socalsteve

Isnt this a pretty broad-general statement? My S Class will see less than 5,000 miles a year. It’s always garaged, lives in a warm relatively dry climate and gets serviced at regular intervals. I can only imagine that, given these circumstances, I will be able to drive this car for many, many years without any issues under warranty or not ).

Thoughts?

RJC

New cars with 100 miles break, so lower annual mileage may help, but not prevent potentially very expensive issues especially for V12's.

To the OP: the 600's generally do not hold their values well and can take several years to level off (the significant cost of repairs WM cites, is a part of this).

How much warranty remaining?

Max3732

The S600 is a 2015 with an extended warranty that goes till 2020. I'm hoping I can extend the warranty after that. In general I won't put many miles on the car (our current 2001 Lexus LS has 90,000 miles), but would like to take it for long road trips across the country occasionally and certainly don't want to engine to stop working in an area with no cell phone coverage in the middle of nowhere.

Wolfman

Broad statement about the S600 or S-Class in general? While the W222's are very reliable cars, any modern luxury car is very expensive to maintain without a warranty. Apart from mechanical parts, the amount of computers/modules will make even small repairs a $1k+ event.
The S600 just has pricier parts. For example, ignition coil replacement are typical service items (50-60k miles). Brought to a dealer, swapping the coil packs with spark plugs is a $6K+ repair. Of course it's cheaper for DIY. It's also a big engine; we had to pay almost $3k just for replace $80 motor mounts as the engine had to come out.

Quadrobenz

I have a 2015 S65. So far I replaced the original tires at 17k miles and had it realigned. As delivered from the factory the alignment was not even close. The newer components seem to be improved compared to my 2006 S65 and my 2005 SL600. Never had a driveline problem but mounts, coil packs and ABC were short lifespan components. My 2009 SL600 has only required motor mounts, nothing else in 8 years. I get the 3 year extension of the factory warranty on all my V12’s and AMG’s. Well worth the cost.

RJC

Sounds like you should be ok so long as you can extend the coverage.

Socalsteve

I mean, what happens to them after the warranty runs out? I see a ton of older MBZ’s on the road ( and plenty of 221’s as well ). If they are so unreliable, wouldn’t they all be in junk yards? And, have a horrible reputation. No one would buy them.

RJC

Hope you don't mind me chiming in here. Aftermarket warranty and/or some may choose not to fix some broken/convenience items most likely due to cost. I've seen many older MBs on the road that need some serious attention.

Wolfman

Not sure if you are actually reading what I wrote...
I never mentioned the word unreliable as these are very solid engines ; the transmissions are old school but designed to handle the high torque and the shift patterns make you feel the endless power much more the 550's. The V8's are actually quite fast but also very uneventful. Different driving experience...
The V12's will simply require more expensive service over time; part of the package and not considered a lack of reliability.

The ABC issue that Quattrobenz mentioned was very present in any engine variant of the S, SL, CL class of the past (just like the leaking Airmatic struts/pump) but have since become a non-issue as the tech has matured.

ItalianJoe1

Sounds like you're not familiar with the revised M279 V12. The coil packs of the old engines are gone, replaced by 12 individual coils with 2 short plug wires each, back to the formula that worked so well like the 272/273 engines. No more expensive coil failures. Motor mounts are also done in-situ on the 222, no reason to remove the engine at all, they have a cross bolt on the top that comes out simply, you raise the engine a couple inches and remove the mount, that's it. Nothing like my old 215 that requires engine or subframe removal to have access to unbolt the arms, then the mounts.

ItalianJoe1

Yes, the new ones are much improved over the old cars. ABC has been fully revised once, and updated somewhat again, since the 220. It's largely trouble free now, I replace the small accumulator on the pump at times on higher mileage S600s that are in limo service, they fail and make a droning noise, but that's about it, and it's a cheap part and takes all of about 20 min to change.

The alignment is WAY off on all the new cars, they have a ton of toe-in that eats up the stock tires in less than 10k many times, and once aligned to specs, they are quite good after that.

To the OP, if the pricing lines up, always go for the V12. It's just a nicer car, and they are usually fully optioned as you say, there's not much to add to a 600/65/Maybach.

Max3732

I'm definitely leaning that way.To option a new S560 the same way as the S600 is so much more expensive and the new features are great, but not worth the price difference. If I could find a used S550 with all the options I want that would also work, but I'm just not finding them and the warranty/pricing/miles on the S600 looks great. I've never had a V12 car and with newer cars getting smaller and smaller engines it's going to be harder to find them so it's about time I gave one a try.

Wolfman

Thanks for the info! I am familiar with the updated specs but not that the coil packs are gone... Good news in any case
In our case it was an SL600 where the engine needed pulling.

Max3732

Thanks for the help everyone. I've decided to go with the S600. It's been a long process with a lot of research and I'm really looking forward to the new car!

usctrojans1

Are the extended warranties negotiatable with the dealer? If so, what type of discount should one expect, especially on a S65?

Quadrobenz

For clarification I am talking about the extended factory warranty, not an aftermarket or insurance product. I am not an expert on the warranty by any measure, I just fork over cash to buy them. The warranty extension seems to be under the control of MBUSA for availability and pricing. We just added the extension on the 2015 S65 last month. The only 100% certain way to get it is purchase the car new or buy a certified pre owned car. We bought ours used from a non Mercedes dealer but had it serviced for the last year at MBLN so the car was qualified.
You can ask for a discount, we did not get one and I got the impression the dealership had little room to change the pricing from MBUSA. We had a choice of 75k miles or 100k miles, the price difference was around $500 as I recall. I think we paid about $8800 for the extended warranty, My wife handled it so my number might be a little high. The S65 factory warranty is really pricey. At least we got a lot of AMEX points!
When we picked up the new 2018 E63S last week we were quoted $7900 for the 3 year extension if we bought it as part of the car purchase. It seemed high to me so we passed for now. I hope that was not a mistake.

Streamliner

There are numerous threads on this site and several referrals to contacts at a few MB dealers across the country who offer substantial discounts on extended, factory warranties. It takes a bit of time to search for them, but you’ll find them.

Socalsteve

try this guy: jjackson@TafelMotors.com

gave us a great discount and very easy to deal with.

good luck!