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2016 S550 4 Matic Sport, 2015 BMW 528xi, 2012 BMW 528xi (gone), 2011 BMW Z4 (Yellow - gone)
Possible lemon - advice appreciated - Transmission
Hi All,
so, my 2016 S550 CPO came with about 29k miles. it was first in service october 2015 - so i still have time on the factory warranty before my 3 years of CPO warranty kick in.
i bought it in to local benz dealership 15 days ago to update the GPS software and to check out some things - i had a night of computer glitches - my ABC wouldn't work properly, and then my automatic highbeams wouldn't work.
anyway, 15 days later, my transmission is in pieces, and they're STILL waiting for parts to come in - they tried the valve body but it wouldn't keep the adaptations, and then they said the clutch pack and they were expecting parts from Germany Saturday (a few days ago). so, still waiting for parts.
I have no real complaints about the local dealership and am appreciative they gave me a loaner (first a rental car at no charge, and after about 6 or 7 days they made me return it and loaned me a benz).
today i called mercedes executive offices (which ultimately went to i think the regular 800 customer support line) and i told the fellow about my concerns, that i'm concerned i have a lemon, i'd like to be made whole, and i'd just buy a new S560 and call it a day.
my thinking if they go for it:
1) i don't want more inconvenience down the line, and
2) streamliner in particular has mentioned the 2018 is vastly superior to his i think 2015.
i like vastly superior.
i have the AMG package which i'd never have bought myself, and 20" all season tires (swapped out the summer tires). i'd really prefer 19" run flats (worse ride, more security in my mind) so if, IF i went and ordered a new car (if even an option) i'd truly spec it the way i want (colors, etc.).
i still can't figure out if i saved money or not by getting CPO.
anyway, i don't know what benz will do - i'm supposed to hear from the "executive" decision makers tomorrow - that doesn't mean a decision, that may mean more like they explored and contacted the dealership. I tried letting the phone rep know i'd like to salvage my relationshp with benz, and if they take back the car and make me whole i'd buy a new one (okay, lease, but i said buy). Regardless, i'd appreciate any thoughts or advice. i've since read the 7 speed is known to have issues. i have warranties up the wazoo, but still, i don't want more issues later. i'm not even sure if dropping in a new transmission would make me happy at this point (computer glitches, which i guess could happen to any car).
thoughts? thanks so much.
That stinks gary sorry to hear, Im very happy w my 15 cpo s550. I dont think at this point there going to do much for you... may have to wait until they at least return the car to you.
We had a 2016 GL350 we got 'lemoned' here in NC. Maybe our experience will help you. We had multiple issues with this car, intermittent no-start at 5k miles, took them 3 tries to fix it, to my dealer's credit the shop foreman got involved and they found something pretty deep in the electrical system, there's a thread here with details on it somewhere. Next issue was parking camera on the passenger side failed intermittently, it was in 4 separate occasions - never fully fixed.
In NC, and I believe each state, the Lemon laws are specific - so you need to know your laws for your state (Google). In NC - more than 3 attempts to repair the same problem OR over 21 (I think?) days out of service in a given time frame qualifies for lemon.
Like you we just wanted something different at this point anyway, so I sent an email to the GM and Service GM at our dealer and basically said look guys, this thing qualifies as a lemon, check out the repair history - what can you do for us? Know that MBUSA and the Dealer don't actually want to lemon a car because that's a legal status that shows up on the title. They have an incentive to work with you so they can fix the car, and sell it again as CPO with a clear title. In our case - MBUSA gave our Dealer trade-in assistance, and we worked out a deal mutually agreeable to both of us. Forgot to mention, part of the NC lemon law is a formula for the buy-back, it's not 100%+ of your original purchase price, they do ding you for mileage but it's a straight % - you don't eat depreciation for example.
Anyway sorry for the longwinded answer - I'd say with the time in shop/out of service you have a leg to stand on, depending on your state, and they should have an incentive to make you a really sweet deal trading in on a brand new one, good luck!
2016 S550 4 Matic Sport, 2015 BMW 528xi, 2012 BMW 528xi (gone), 2011 BMW Z4 (Yellow - gone)
Thanks, at worst I'm "stuck" when a 2016 S550 (boo hoo, awesome car). At best? I dunno. New S560? S450? Still can't figure out od iI it money on the cpo versus leasing.
Do lemon laws apply to used cars in your state? If not, you’re going to have to play nice with the dealer and hope he’ll let you out of the vehicle. Offer to throw in some $$$ to walk away.
Thanks, at worst I'm "stuck" when a 2016 S550 (boo hoo, awesome car). At best? I dunno. New S560? S450? Still can't figure out od iI it money on the cpo versus leasing.
Interesting point - we bought the 2016 GL350 thinking 'forever car' - diesel and all, but I've, um, I dunno dare I call it evolved? to a lease, as it reflects the reality of our car swapping. So in my case, took all the equity from the 'lemon' GL350, rolled it into a one-pay lease on a GLS550, got maintenance included. Lease terms weren't great, probably not even good, but good enough for the time being. At 30 months (did a 30/30) I'll give it back and get something else new to play with.
Gary, you have to go read the law. The NJ law for you is 20 days of service. After that, immediately send Mercedes the certified letter. Then call them back.
1. You could ask for a new transmission.
2. You could ask for a refund, or the purchase price applied to a new car (I did this with Harley Davidson about 10 years ago. They offered me every penny I paid as an allowance in addition to any deal I cut with the dealer). Their disadvantage is they still need to fix your car and then unload a car with a Buy-Back title.
3. Proceed with the Lemon Law. Their disadvantage is they still need to fix your car and then unload a car with a Lemon-Law title ... and pay your legal costs and pay their legal costs.
When you call, I recommend that you be very polite, let them know that you haven't gotten a lawyer yet.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by garygnu
i'd like to be made whole, and i'd just buy a new S560 and call it a day.
my thinking if they go for it:...
2) streamliner in particular has mentioned the 2018 is vastly superior to his i think 2015.
i like vastly superior.
You could imo be setting yourself up for disappointment. I suggest test driving a 2018 first. You might be able to borrow a tester overnight or over a Sunday, or longer.
2016 S550 4 Matic Sport, 2015 BMW 528xi, 2012 BMW 528xi (gone), 2011 BMW Z4 (Yellow - gone)
hi all, and many thanks - THIS is the kind of feedback i was hoping for.
i've been very polite with with mercedes (actually, i'm not THAT gruff of a fellow).
i didn't hire a lawyer yet - heck, i am one!!!! (i did hire a lawyer for a lemon passat that i called the ****-at - that one was a lemon).
maybe i should try the '18 - i've read how great it is, and i've read that some folks have noisy cars. i think Syswei's point needs to be well taken (and thank you). i would say, if i ordered mine, i could choose my colors, etc.
i made it clear i've only had the car for about 500 miles, and the dealership has had it almost as long as me, and that i completely lost faith in my car. (well, i may be laying it on thick).
i did tell them i'm less interested in a lemon law claim, and just that i lost confidence in the car. as it is, one of the lawyers in my suite was/is a lemon law attorney (among other things).
cemeek's reply earlier was very helpful and i thought about it as i stated what i'd like to have happen. heck, if they can get me out, CPO the thing, and sell me a new car, didn't they just sell a new car? i think so.
i think it would be premature for me to post a request about S450 vs. S560 (heck my friend just got an S 63 which i can't justify at all). i can afford the 560 or 63, i just don't want to pay for it! being "reasonable" i'd go back "down" to an E 400 but after sitting in a 2015 S550 (and then the E 300) i felt the 2016 i bought (and even the 2015 i test drove) was soooooo much nicer and "better"
with the intention to hold the 2016 until August 2022 (warranty up October 2022) and knowing the new models MIGHT come out about January 2022 give or take, i think that would crush the resale value of mine.
and i question what other issues i'm going to have with it if i keep it over the next few years.
if i went with the 2018 and got smaller run flat all season tires (lower profile) i know the ride might suffer, but i'd have more confidence as against flats and being stranded).
again, i welcome any thoughts or suggestions. test driving the 2018 was a great idea - thanks!!!!!
hi all, and many thanks - THIS is the kind of feedback i was hoping for.
maybe i should try the '18 - i've read how great it is, and i've read that some folks have noisy cars. i think Syswei's point needs to be well taken (and thank you). i would say, if i ordered mine, i could choose my colors, etc.
i think it would be premature for me to post a request about S450 vs. S560 (heck my friend just got an S 63 which i can't justify at all). i can afford the 560 or 63, i just don't want to pay for it! being "reasonable" i'd go back "down" to an E 400 but after sitting in a 2015 S550 (and then the E 300) i felt the 2016 i bought (and even the 2015 i test drove) was soooooo much nicer and "better"
Counterpoint is that a new car could have just as many problems. I would get what you have fixed and run it for the duration of a factory ELW. Just my opinion but I would also never buy an S class new because of the depreciation hit that they take. To each his own though.
2016 S550 4 Matic Sport, 2015 BMW 528xi, 2012 BMW 528xi (gone), 2011 BMW Z4 (Yellow - gone)
many thanks.
of interest, is some folks are saying the 2018 is NOT necessarily vastly better than the prior years (i DO like the steering wheel controllers, look of the new head and tail lights) but i also like the look of more money in the bank
i switched to 20" all season (non run flats) which are supposed to be a better ride than the summer tire run flats (i only drive 5 miles on them on a cold day, so i have no way to compare). based on my other cars, i'd prefer a (slightly?) harsher ride with run flats versus a plusher ride without a spare - i have a ton of tire repair stuff and inflators in the trunk, but i AM concerned about a flat or being stranded, etc.
glitches - i agree - can get in a new car. in theory, at 2.5 years old since date of service, this should still be a fairly new car.
thanks again.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
You know, I like more money in the bank as well, who doesn’t? But for someone who is obviously a bit more in tune with the way their car sounds, feels and behaves than the average guy, I highly recommend that you order a brand new 2018 S Class, just the way you like it and then lease it. Then, every three or four years, you get a new one. As a lawyer, you must be able to write some of the car off as a business expense and leases are great for that. Find a dealer that is convenient and that you trust and then stay with them. When they know that you will be coming back for a new car every lease cycle, they tend to take great care of you when a problem arises.
My 2015 S550 was good to me, but I never “loved” it, as I loved my 2013 W221. My new 2018 S560 is just SO much better, in virtually every way over my 2015. It is THE best car I have ever owned or leased. And, I highly recommend getting smaller wheels. I ordered my car with 18” wheels, which I think look great. I drove the car on the factory supplied Bridgestone E400-2 Run Flats for a while and they were not bad. I could have lived with those tires, but I had negotiated them being replaced with conventionals, which gives me a much nicer, more quiet ride. I truly feel that all this large diameter wheel hoopla is just B.S. Anyway, just my two cents worth. We all have different wants, needs and desires, so I thought I’d share feelings on the subject. Best of luck in whatever you decide.
2016 S550 4 Matic Sport, 2015 BMW 528xi, 2012 BMW 528xi (gone), 2011 BMW Z4 (Yellow - gone)
Many thanks. I’m all for SMALLER wheels, I feel low profile is harsher, ore susceptible to damage, and the larger sizes are harder to source.
I can deduct a lease. I can depreciate the purchase, so in that regard it’s mostly a break even.
i’ve read That you like the 2018 much more than the 2015, and others think the 2015 was quieeer - I guess “ymmv” so there’s that.
my ,ast purchase in 2000 was a lemon and I’ve leased since.
i’m having Some “buyer’s remorse” but have to admit having my cream puff back since last night, and driving it, is making me smile again. And tough I’d never have picked black new, I think it looks regal.
For now i’ll what issues come up (if any) and how reliable before I decide to open the can of whoop a$$, and also what Benz MAY come back to me with.
i’m heavily factoring that you feel the 2018 is a vast improvement; on paper it’s incremental, but again, I’ve read what you said.
that said, my cheapness wonders if I’d be happy in a 450. I do not particularly like the wheel choices, and I’m not a wheel guy. For a few dollars more, and a few mpg less, I bet clos r to what I have now. The dollar differential doesn’t matter that much, and I’d Have to test frive if I get that far, but I’d wager I’d want the power of the v8 ad would feel that skimped, so I’d probably go 560 even if I couldn’t feel it much in day to day (and I like visiting gas pumps as infrequently as possible).
Many thanks!
Many thanks. I’m all for SMALLER wheels, I feel low profile is harsher, ore susceptible to damage, and the larger sizes are harder to source.
I can deduct a lease. I can depreciate the purchase, so in that regard it’s mostly a break even.
i’ve read That you like the 2018 much more than the 2015, and others think the 2015 was quieeer - I guess “ymmv” so there’s that.
my ,ast purchase in 2000 was a lemon and I’ve leased since.
i’m having Some “buyer’s remorse” but have to admit having my cream puff back since last night, and driving it, is making me smile again. And tough I’d never have picked black new, I think it looks regal.
For now i’ll what issues come up (if any) and how reliable before I decide to open the can of whoop a$$, and also what Benz MAY come back to me with.
i’m heavily factoring that you feel the 2018 is a vast improvement; on paper it’s incremental, but again, I’ve read what you said.
that said, my cheapness wonders if I’d be happy in a 450. I do not particularly like the wheel choices, and I’m not a wheel guy. For a few dollars more, and a few mpg less, I bet clos r to what I have now. The dollar differential doesn’t matter that much, and I’d Have to test frive if I get that far, but I’d wager I’d want the power of the v8 ad would feel that skimped, so I’d probably go 560 even if I couldn’t feel it much in day to day (and I like visiting gas pumps as infrequently as possible).
Many thanks!
05-01-2018, 04:55 PM
