Hi all. I know this has been talked about but I dont completely remember if any one of you directly has addressed the issue.

So we have a 2016 Maybach with 52000 miles and have had it eat the inside edge of the rear tires seemingly to often. The car is totally in alignment specs and tire pressures are what is called for. I know I can buy adjustable CAMBER rods to fix this but it could also be toe in that is doing this.

Has anyone here had this issues fixed? If so what exactly did you have done?

Thank ya......
Katie

 

If the car is totally within alignment specs than buying any adjustable kit wouldn't help .can you please share a copy of the alignment results?

 

I dont think I have the copy of the alignment results anymore. I took it to the local tire store (these people are good) and they checked it and said it was set to factory specs. I might have gotten the print out but dont recall what I did with it.

 

I think I found the issue.

For MB vehicles and especially for issues like this you need to go to a dealer. The little holes in your rim are meant for the dealers alignment machines and the accuracy is second to none. No other machines can do this and that may be why you're getting the issue. If you have difficulties understanding my post just lmk and I'll dig up the video. It's hard for me to explain

 

I got you. I did do some subsequent research and found out that more tire pressure will place more wear on the center of the tire tread. We were running tires at car recommendation (if I recall it is 39) but the tires say max of 50psi so I decided to run the pressure up to 46 for the rears and see how that works.......

 

Do you describe in EVERY post you make that you have a Maybach? WE KNOW you have a maybach, you don't need to constantly remind us all of your super depreciation car every single time, or do you?

 

 

Typically speaking that just means that because your car is super heavy, and that the tires have a high weight rating. What this typically translates to is reinforced (or shall I say super reinforced) sidewalls and the rubber compound is even harder.

Your suggestion on inflating your tires to a higher PSI should help, but I would still start with a proper dealer alignment first. Typically speaking the front outer edge wears first given the job of the front tires and turning of the vehicle being the primary mandate, but rear inside wear is really not normal, especially for stock setups.

Once you get through this set of tires, I'd recommend some other tire. Years ago I owned a car that would chew through (then) Good Year Fortera Tripletread tires (an all weather tire with the heavy service snowflake symbol) so thus was a softer compound tire. Once I switched to the Michelin LTX MS tire (a legendary tire) excessive front should wear went away. Now these tires I just mentioned are SUV tires as that was a luxury SUV, but the same is applicable for passenger tires as well.

I presume the Maybach is the same as all the other S classes whereby the tires are staggered, but if they are not a directional tire, consider rotating the back two tires from side to side.

 

 

Happy to help. I have no clue whether or not Maybachs are on RFTs, but if possible, I'd ditch your run flats. RFT have softer rubber compound to begin with, but more importantly, the mileage warranty on them is terrible (as in atrocious). If you can switch to a regular non run flat tire like the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity, or even, say, the Michelin Primacy MXM4, and this issue remains, at least you can claim warranty on them! I got 50% out of my front Michelins (staggered setup as well), and Michelin credited me 50% of the cost of new tires (not at MSRP either, but at the usual normal sales price). Can't speak highly enough of them.

In my experience, OEM tires do wear poorly, as they are often the cheapest option possible. That said I do believe Maybach OEM tires (I don't recall who makes them or what it is) have some sort of foam in the inside of the tire. They refer to this as an acoustic tire, and they exist on Teslas as well. I'm not sure if your tire has that, but just be aware that if you give it up, you may be giving up some noise comfort.

That said, the Maybach and the S class were only 0.3 to 0.5db apart when CarandDriver tested them. This difference in noise was at 70mph and is statistically irrelevant, but just a polite FYI.

 

 

It is worth noting that for those that don't usually peruse this forum, that her thread title of "Car loves the eat inside of rear tires" makes people presume she is referencing a normal S class. The tires on a Maybach are also different than other S classes so it is pertinent information. That said, regular usual forum followers, of course, know.

 

What you are going to need to do is to find a "probe tipped pyrometer" a device used to measure the temperature of the tread on the tire. You can buy one of these for about $100 that will save you thousands over your driving career. I have this one:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/l...iABEgLPnPD_BwE

After driving for at least 20 minutes at a moderately fast speed, stop quickly but not excessively fast, and immediately take 3 readings across the surface of the tire {outside, middle, inside}
If the 3 temperatures are low in the middle, the tire is under inflated
If the 3 temperatures are high in the middle, the tire is overinflated
One has to get the tires properly inflated first before doing the rest of the tests. What you want is middle = (outer+inner)/2 this is the proper tire inflation point--the entire tread is carrying its share of the load.

If the inside is more than 20ºF hotter than the outside there is too much camber
If the inside it less than 10ºF hotter than the outside, there is too little camber
Camber must be in the right ball park before trying to deal with toe as it is creates such a subtle change in tire temperature if toe is anywhere close to where it should be.

If none of the above is the problem then you have too much toe-in at the rear.
More rear toe-in increases the inside temperature and adds understeer in cornering
Less rear toe-in decreases inside temperature and subtracts understeer or even induces oversteer in cornering
Be gentle if you take rear toe-out of the alignment.

Second point: generally car companies have a fairly wide band where they will call the car "In Alignment", whereas the picky driver wants the LF == RF and LR == RR not close, spot on.
Take the alignment sheet they give you (you did ask for it, did you not?) and compare the numbers left and right, and don't let them get away with a difference more than 10% of the band (also shown on the alignment sheet).

 

Couldn't you just use a thermal imaging camera? Wayyyyy quicker.

Before I get crucified for suggesting such an expensive device, they are great for home inspections, insulation inspection, HVAC inspections etc. Plus, she owns a Maybach so cost isn't really a factor (I'm guessing), but it's way quicker than the tool you are suggesting (not to take away from the fact that your suggestion is MOST excellent!)

 

You are trying to measure the temperature several millimeters under the surface, so I don't see how an IR device can read those temperatures.

 

I don't really need to. What I believe you're trying to do is to ascertain if one part of the tire is hotter versus the other. E.g if the shoulders are hotter than the middle.

The temperature readmap is all you need from an IR device. The spot that is redder is hotter, so from there you can figure out whether or not you should increase or decrease PSI.

 

If you were doing an IR capture as you drove down the road, I would agree that the surface temperature is rather identical to the in subsurface rubber temperature.

However, tires cool off quickly, and by the time you get the car stopped, get out, turn on the pyrometer, take 3 measurements on each tire, write them down, go to the next tire, and do all 4 tires, you may have lost 10ºF or more from the 4th tire--completely obliterating the required accuracy.

In contrast, the rubber under the surface cools at a much slower rate, allowing for all of the above with negligible change in temps.

 

Fair point on all fronts. I am curious though, wouldn't an IR camera look past the surface? You're totally right that the surface temperature would drop quickly, but in my experience an IR camera would show the "average" of all of the heat from the surface of the tire, down through and past the surface layer. So you'd be totally right in the fact that the entire surface of the tire would cool at roughly the same rate, but the temperature a few CM down should still retain the heat and thus the IR graph would still give us the relevant information we're looking for.

That said, I'm entirely speculating, although I feel it's a reasonable assumption. You probably (or most definitely) have more experience than me here. Just thinking out loud since thermal imaging cameras are so cheap now, and you've awoken my curious spirit to give this a try!

 

If rubber was transparent in the IR region, what you state would be true. I am pretty sure it is not, but I don't know for sure.

I do know racers who use IR (actually its the pit crews that do IR since it takes the driver too long to climb out of the car.)

But I was taught as explained above, and I have to go with what I know.

 

I have an S65 which also uses the special extra load tires, non run flat. In the really old days the extra load tires were called 6 ply equivalent. With the V12 I run 46 front, 36 rear with just 2 people in the car. if I have people in the rear seat or a lot of weight in the trunk for a long trip I raise the rears to 38psi. The first set of tires lasted 22,000 miles. Worn to the wear bars all 4 tires were evenly worn across the entire width of the tread. I had the dealer align the car early after purchase, the factory alignment was not even close. I got the one alignment free under the warranty. I got a second alignment free at the dealer by purchasing the replacement tires there. The price per tire was only $10 more than at Tire America, so the alignment cost me $40 but I got a free loaner car, no waiting and everything is warranted by the dealer. I am using Continental Contact 5P's.
If the rear tires are scrubbing off the inside edge at 38psi there is something wrong with the alignment or something has failed or is not properly tightened in the rear suspension. The reason the factory pressures are higher in the rear than in the front is to assure the car understeers in all driving situations. The factory recommended pressures do not provide optimum wear or optimum handling.

 

Since the factory is not going to tell you the correct tire pressures, and since different driving styles will want different tire pressures:: one needs a way of determining what IS the correct tire inflation pressure.
The probe-tipped pyrometer is one means to do this by direct measurement and without guessing.

By the way, on my S600 I run 38F and 38R on non-run-craps. Which is a trade off between ride (better at 36-36) and handling (better at 39-39) and milage I am getting 24MPG+ on interstate cruising in a V12!

 

I can't explain how this happened but my first 2 sets of FRONT tires chewed up quickly also. In my past on all cars I've owned , I usually could go 30,000 miles (staggered setup) before needing new tires all around. I decided to keep my suspension in Sport at all times and I keep 50 pounds in all 4 tires and I'm now at 22,000 miles and all 4 tires look brand new. The wear is even across the tread and it appears I still have 65% left if not more. I don't know if a Maybach has the Sport suspension setting, but I told my technician about it and he can't really explain why this fixed my problem. No adjustments to my suspension were made as they said it looked good from the beginning and like you heard, they all say it is just normal. It shouldn't be considered normal. It is a problem across the board for many years.....I just got lucky and figured out what works for me.

The last time I changed tires was at 25,000 miles. It now has 46,000 miles and the tires still look almost new.

 

With a "full front and rear alignment" being only toe (directional) adjustment OEM - we saw the need to reinstate from the early 90's once again full and precise (single wrench) -- Front Camber and Caster. Rear Camber (and extra toe) adjustable bushings.

Allowing to importantly change tire "contact angles". Available are fluted bolts (for the front only) - but inaccurate providing only one offset position and 0.3 degree adjustment (1/8 inch).

While the K-MAC patented design front bushes provide up to 3 times this adjustment range and accurate adjustment (on alignment rack under load)

Front bushes also replace the 4 highest wearing bushings and are Mono ball / 2 axis design. Result is noticeably improved brake and steering response.

For the rear instead of upper Camber arms we manufacture replacement bushes for the lower arms instead. Advantage is (besides ease of access to fit and adjust) important top of tire to outer fender clearance is maintained when adjusting to reduce inner edge tire wear.

Rear kit includes extra Toe adjustment to compensate for the new Camber facility. Bush extraction tool is included allowing to replace bushes on vehicle.

Another popular kit manufactured is uprated bushings for the 6 multi link rear arms. Less rear end twitch / flex, improved traction. Especially when applying power to lane change ./ overtake.

All model W222:
Front Camber & Caster P/N 502816 $480
Rear Camber (& extra Toe) P/N 502226 $480
Rear Mutli link Bush kit P/N 502828 $480
Delivery $30 one kit $20 each additional

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