SW20S

Hey all-

So, looking for peoples thoughts who have experience with all of these systems. I have the Mark Levinson Reference Surround system in my LS460L, which I really like. Its not a super powerful system, its like 450 watts but when paired with Tidal or other lossless audio, it really sounds good. I haven't been blown away by the base Burmester system, largely because of the lack of a typical rear subwoofer. The bass coming from the front sounds odd to me, and the system just doesnt feel as deep as the ML.

I drove a BMW 750 with the Harmon Kardon audio and it was no better, but I also drove one with the Bowers and Wilkins Diamond system and it was much more what I'm used to with the ML.

So, here's my question...those of you who have had Lexus vehicles with ML before, or have had BMWs with Bowers & Wilkins how do you think the Burmester measures up?

If I do a W222 I'm buying off the lot, so getting the 3D High End isn't an option, none have it. I know some have added subwoofers, but I'd really rather not...

superangrypenguin

The worst sounding sound system of any of the major flagship sedans (base model, not the upgraded stereo systems) is the W222 Burmester base stereo system. I cannot believe Mercedes Benz gutted the sound system that badly versus the W221. I understand and appreciate the fact that the vast majority of people no longer prioritize having an awesome sounding sound system (apparently it's #6 or onwards of people's buying priorities) but seriously? A 6 figure car without a subwoofer?

Now, OTOH, the Burmester 3D stereo option is, in my opinion, one of the best sound systems of any flagship, even exceeding that of the Bang and Olufsen Advanced system on the current model A8. I think the ML high end option on the LS500 is close to the Burmester 3D option, but 'softer' from a sound perspective which may be what one is looking for.

Right now, the B&O Premium Sound system (found on base model A8s in North America) takes the cake of any of the 3 German flagships without paying more for a better system, IMHO. It sounds very good, and IMHO is a hair better than the W221 HK system which IMHO was a very good system as well.

I am seriously disappointed at MB's 'base' Burmester stereo system and am shocked that more people don't complain about it. It sounds worse than several Bose systems found in Japanese mainstream $30K cars.

SW20S

I’m also surprised that so few cars have the 3D option, I’m sure it’s because it’s so costly.

2012 merc amg

I wonder how much they vary depending on the model year. I have a 2017 with the 6 disc cd player and think the system sounds pretty good. Maybe starting in 2018 the models with no CD player they started to degrade the sound systems. I had a 2018 E63 amg wagon and the sound system sounded horrible and then traded car in plus cash for a 2019 E450 Wagon and that sound system sounds great. Not really sure of the reason but they both were wagons and only 1 model year difference and everything looked the same with the equipment, they should have sounded similar.

VKS400

The fact is that most people (at least based on my circle of people) could care less about the sound system. What I see is people over 40 years old barely even turn the radio on, they need peace and serenity. For music lovers - 3D option. So I can't really blame MB for taking this opportunity to cut costs. Most owners who are on these forums are passionate about cars, we know a lot of details and complain more. I have two friends with S classes and they don't even know if they run runflats or conventional tires, what the sizes are, what the MBUX is etc.. All they care about is getting from home to work and back with comfort and in a good branded vehicle. Period.

superangrypenguin

Don't you think that is a bit sad? The whole point of buying a flagship vehicle is to be able to be in the best that a car maker can make (within reason). We see the removal of full spare tires. We see the cost cutting in main stream vehicles. Sure, but we're not buying Honda Accords here.

Anyway, all this to state that I'm not >40. But like many on here I am passionate about cars. I'm just surprised that people buying 6 figure cars aren't rather specific about audio systems because if we are all in the boat you claim we are (getting to work/home with comfort in a good branded vehicle), we should all be in Hondas?

(I'm kidding in a respectful way, of course).

SilverArrow44

While I haven't tried the other options that you mentioned, I have the standard Burmester system and I was profoundly disappointed in it when I first purchased my car. After much trial and error, I finally got the equalizer just right and I'm happy with it. However it is unfortunate that Mercedes would install such a poor system in their flagship. IMHO, all S-Classes should leave the factory with the premium sound system.

SW20S

I think the issue is that the optional sound system should be more accessible. Maybe there's a middle ground where you have two options? Sounds like with the standard Burmester the addition of a subwoofer and a couple little tweaks would help a lot.

One of the things I really enjoy about driving a high end car is the audio system, I do worry about trading up for the S Class and being dissapointed every time I use the audio...nothing else about the car (aside from the cost) gives me pause...

UrBusted

There's also a front-bass system which is below Burmester and is the standard for some countries including the UK. If you want to add a subwoofer to Burmester but want to keep the OEM feel, you can use the 3D boot enclosure which has the unit holding the subwoofer (if I remember I think it's 8") and the trunk 'liner'.

MBT402

I totally agree. I just purchased a previously owned 2017 W222 and am floored by how poor the Burmester base system sounds. I am coming out of a 2012 Audi A8L with Bose sound system that runs rings around the Burmester. I am enjoying the car so far but my enthusiasm is dampened by the poor sound of the Burmester. The Audi had an 8 band equalizer with a sub in the rear and front doors. The Burmester has a 3 band equalizer with Bass, Midrange and Treble. The Audi had a beautiful soundstage from the front and rear of the car, the W222 has a soundstage in the front that’s much louder than the rear of the car and when you switch to the rear, there is little bass. For a car at this price range, I’m disappointed.

SW20S

I will say, that I am adapting to the system and it doesnt sound as bad to me anymore. It does have nice crisp highs. I think its because the memory of the much better ML audio in my previous Lexus is fading, and what I have to compare it to is the HK system in our Pacifica minivan (which isnt awful).

I'm going to go in next week or the week after to have my audio shop install my dashcam, and I will discuss adding a subwoofer to the trunk with them then.

I had an E350 loaner with that car's base Burmester while they replaced some deformed drivers door weatherstripping and boy that is god awful. At least ours is better than that. I mean, wow that was terrible...flat, lifeless...blah.

If I were Burmester I would never let them put my name on these systems. They should just be unbranded "Mercedes Audio" and leave the Burmester name for the optional 3D systems.

Jagbuxx

I tend to agree that the base system is ok at best. My 2017 640 2 door with the HK system had a better sound. Maybe because It was a smaller interior.
At least the Burmeister has great looking speakers

2012 merc amg

I actually recently went from a 2017 s550 to a 2018 s560 one of the main reasons being for the 3D audio. Night and day difference. Look forward to every drive in the car. Very clean sounding system. I mainly use it in the “Live” setting. In the 3D setting it does not sound as good for some reason.

Ian Ffield

Was really unimpressed initially. Turns out someone boosted the bass and highs, turned on surround, etc... teenager stuff. I put it back to flat and let my brain adjust, much much better sound. Turn your EQ off.

SW20S

A lot of it is letting your brain adjust you're right.

as.thompson

Everyone has different needs and wants. In my case, I've been a Hi-Fi bug since 1958 and a car bug since 1960. I have my S550 Coupe because I like to drive it not because I want to listen to a Hi-Fi. I have my Hi-Fi system in my home when I want to listen to music. To each his/her own.

SW20S

But wouldnt you also want to have a great audio system in your car all things being equal? You can't enjoy your home HiFi system on a 5 hour road trip.

as.thompson

True. But I guess that I don't take many long road trips. 2 1/2 hours seems to be my max and I haven't missed the top end audio that much. I have the standard Burmester system in my coupe BTW.

Wolfman

I didn't mind the standard Burmester at all in the S-Class. Much better than the HK or Bose of old in prior models. Also never been a fan of B&O in MB models. The 3D is definitely better but there is no way I would complain about the std.one. This is different than the Burmester in our E63s or our latest GLE. I guess these are Burmester in name only...
We do have the Burmester in the GTC which sounds better than in the other 3.
But a lot has to do with personal preferences, opinion and the type of music being played. We listen to anything from Deep House to Classical. None have been good for all, including the Bowers & Wilkins Diamond in our M8.

2012 merc amg

The Standard Burmester in my former 2017 S class and my current 2019 E class really are not bad at all. It is interesting driving the my 2019 E450 wagon and then my 2018 S560 with the 3D audio with the same audio source back to back. The sound of the 3D is much more detailed and less harsh and more smooth and better sound stage. But I am very happy with the sound system in the Wagon, no real complaints. I am noticing specific detail of music I've listened to for years with the 3D audio, instruments I never knew were there in certain songs. Listening to the remastered Doobie Brothers album the other day on the 3D audio was interesting. Very clear. I'm debating on installing a pair of aftermarket rotating 3D audio Chinese knock off tweeters in my E450 Wagon. I am a little of nervous of it degrading the sound though, hopefully not. Perhaps I can figure a way of putting even better tweeters in them. That might be an interesting project. Thing is though without the clean amps in the 3D audio better tweeters alone may not do much good.

SW20S

It depends on what you had in your last car. I think the issue is most people who upgrade to the S Class are upgrading from the best that a competitor has to offer, for me it was from Lexus and my LS460L was tricked out with Mark Levinson audio and all the interior upgrades, etc. The base Burmester doesnt hold a candle to the ML in the Lexus, its just not in the same stratosphere. How would it compare to the base non ML audio in the LS? Probably pretty comparable. So it feels a little odd to me to make such a big move up in price (my S560 is $34,000 more than my LS460L was) and yet take a step down in some areas (audio, cloth headliner vs suede, etc).

I just wish the 3D audio weren't so extremely rare. In my searching nationwide for cars in stock with 3D audio over 3 months I only ever saw one car with it (at least with 3D and AMG), and that was a leftover 2019 in CA.

The only thing I miss about the LS is the audio system. Thats something I really enjoyed every day so thats not a small thing, and that one thing really almost drove me to the 7 Series.

Wolfman

Wasn’t the ML in the Lexus only a $1600 option? Easy to be selected compared to the $6400 3D Burmester as a custom option. Few will pay that much more. As for the price difference of the LS460 and the S560, different cars with different price points. You can spend $150k on a Porsche and still have to spend another $2k for just the alcantara headliner. The S-class is really cheap to get the interior upgrades IMO. Just $2200 more get gets you the full leather/alcantara interior. I would pay for that over the audio.

superpop

These cars can be upgraded to beyond Burmester 3D for about the same money. I went this route on my MY2015 4Matic with the standard Burmester. I removed the factory amp and put a NAVTV module in its place that grabs the fiber optic signal from the head unit. I have this going into 2 JL Audio amps. I have the VXi 1000/1 mono amp running a 10" W7 AE JL sub in a sealed box that takes up around the same trunk space overall as the 3D sub box. I then have a VXi 800/8 running all of the factory speakers. It is expensive but it sounds better than anything I have ever heard and I can tune it on the fly via a bluetooth connection to my Ipad. JL Audio makes awesome gear that is somewhat futureproof so I can take these pieces with me when I sell the car. My installer made everything reversible and I plan to just keep all of the gear when I sell the car and get something else.

SW20S

The interior upgrade is cheap, but I was limited to what was in stock. The exclusive nappa is also fairly rare on cars with the AMG package. I think Mercedes should option a more reasonable cost upgrade audio system if the basic system is going to have these limitations.

2012 merc amg

Maybe the best or nothing means you will have nothing because you spent so much for the Stereo upgrade . Ya, it is a lot of money. I guess for some people it does not make that much of a difference as not everyone is into audiophile quality sound systems. I have a very fine ear and can pick things up in music and really appreciate it. My Brother was saying "Who cares" Give me a fast car. It is too bad though that there is not something in between. I got very lucky in finding my 156K sticker car used with the 3D audio a month ago, it was a very rare find. Now come to find out the reason why my garage has been smelling some of gas fumes the last month is because my engine oil is watered down with gas from I suspect a failed coil at 12.5K miles and a year ago. Since that time supposedly there have been two oil changes done on the car but I think it's BS, I pulled the oil cap today and real strong gas smell on the inside of it and dirty oil. I'll bet at the very least I'll need Cats pretty soon, what happens is from the gas in the oil it overheats them and damages them. I just hope I don't need an engine but at least the car has 4 more years of factory warrantee. Oh well at least I can sit there in the garage and listen to my 3D audio with a battery charger connected to the car. I knew this kinda thing was going on with oil changes and thats why I started the other thread about the oil not really being changed even though listed on paperwork. I've got both invoices and on the carfax it says it was done. All meaningless, people will get away with all they can these days, it's the world we now live in. Lying is ok.