Alcyone

Coming from BMW, I am looking to get my first S class. Primarily focusing on the face lifted 2018-2021 s560. Not having as much experience with Mercedes, I am hoping I can get some opinions on the differences in the refresh, and if they are worth the extra money, some common issues to look out for, and what service to prepare for at 50k and 100k miles.

I do a lot of work myself, so I have some understanding of vehicles, but that knowledge is primarily BMW, so I understand there will be a learning curve. That being said, what are the main weak points of the s550 and s560 (if any)? What major service is expected at 50k and 100k miles, engine and transmissions wise, besides the regular oil and filter change? Any suspension work? Noticeable differences in infotainment systems?

What sort of reliability can be expected? Coming from BMW, I have never been stranded and had to get towed, I never experienced major issues with my cars; I do take care of them and perform all regular maintenance. Can this level of reliability be expected from a Mercedes v8? Is there a free online WIS?

What is the general opinion on the HUD, is it useful or useless? On my current 7, it's incredibly useful. Does the Mercedes HUD display address book, tracks info, etc..?

Appreciate all comments and thoughts. Thanks!

superpop

MB and BMW are really different luxury vehicles. BMW tends to be a little more sporty but not as luxurious in my experience. I have had both the pre FL and FL models and I can tell you I would not buy the pre FL model because of the tech. MB tends to be behind everyone else on tech to begin with and going back 6 years now, the pre FL cars lack a lot of tech that you would expect like basic car play. Also the 4.7L motors can have some issues with oil seeping into the electrics. The W222 platform is pretty easy to work on for basic maintenance including brakes, fluid changes and general upkeep. I have never been left on the side of the road in 10 years of S class ownership and have found them to be very reliable cars if taken care of.

Alcyone

Is the s63 LF (year 2018) equally reliable, or has it's own issues? The tech definitely seems a bit outdated compared to my 2014 750i... Specifically, the HUD, which I have grown to love. But might have to live without.. the BMW implementation is great. Also, what is with the lack of media buttons on the steering wheel??

Lou B

As an non-do-it-myself owner of an late-June delivered 2018 S560m (32,000 trouble-free miles) all I can contribute is "other than an early trunk latch recall, my car has given me absolutely no trouble or problems whatsoever." As some participants here know, I'm still driving in my dotage, and I love every minute I spend in my beautiful Benz. I've never tried HUD because I wear tri-focal Polarized sunglasses whenever the sun is out. I drive up and down local hills all the time, and use the paddles to drive in low-gear manual to minimize brake pad wear - hopefully, and I do feel the transmission shifting...but I'm used to it and don't care. You might. I have one of the rarer not-so-often encountered MBC-equipped units - love it.

superpop

I have a model year 2019 S63 that I have owned for around 2 years now. I picked it up with 9K miles on the clock and it now has around 28K miles on it. I did have an issue with a rear radar sensor when I first got it but that was fixed under the MB warranty. Other than that, I have had no problems other than replacing the brake pads and tires. The pads still had around 80% of the pad left but I was sick of the constant brake dust from the MB pads so I swapped them for Carbon Ceramic Powerstop pads and have no more dust. The S63 is a bit of a split personality car, in normal comfort mode it is somewhat similar to the S560, but in Sport+ mode it turns into a beast of a car. Heads up is nice and can show nav directions along with speed and tach. On the S63 is can also display the AMG trackpace data as well. Tech is dramatically better on the MY2018 and newer cars. I think in 2019 they went to a new celular system in the car so the 2019 has a better Iphone app as well if I am not mistaken. On mine I can remote start my car, check diagnostics, find the car and a few other things on my Iphone. The early 2018 S63 cars did have an issue with head bolts that I think was covered under a TSB. Not sure what you mean by media buttons on the steering wheel. On mine I can control just about everything from the steering wheel controls. Each pod on the steering wheel controls all functions on the two dash screens.

mercedesbuff

The refresh in 2018 brought a few notable changes.

• New 4.0L V8 engine replaced the 4.7L from the S550. Fuel economy bumped up very slightly, partly due to automatic cylinder deactivation.
• Infotainment was upgraded with the debut of Apple CarPlay and the final death of the 6-CD changer.
• New Steering Wheel. The '14-'17 W222 steering wheel was arguably more beautiful, but some love the '18-'20 steering wheel so much that they spend $$$ to update their '14-'17 steering wheel with the newer one. With the new steering wheel came a MAJOR change to the cruise control actuation, which I still feel was a serious step backwards, in terms of intuitiveness and ability to engage/adjust without eyes.
• Headlamps were upgraded to "Multibeam LED." In the U.S., this change honestly wasn't very meaningful, unless you pay to have your headlamps coded to EURO instead of ASE (U.S.), thereby unlocking all the truly amazing lighting functionality of both the low beams (now variable) and the high beams (truly awesome). I own a 2020 GLS with the newer Multibeam LED and a 2017 S550, both of which I've paid to have coded to EURO headlamp functionality. I can say that, if you're planning to do the coding, the Multibeam LED headlamps are materially superior. If not, then the difference is almost irrelevant.
• I'm sure I'm missing a few other facelift changes, so others can add more.

Service is straightforward for the 550/560 (The AMG models will differ somewhat):
Oil & Filter (10k)
Cabin Filter (20k)
Brake Fluid Flush (2 yrs)
Wiper Blades (2 yrs)
Engine Air Filter (50k)
Spark Plugs (50k)
Transmission Fluid and Filter (60k)
4MATIC Transfer Case Oil (60k)
Fuel Filter (120k)
Coolant (120k)

Regarding reliability, I've only been stranded once in 20 years of Mercedes ownership, when a fuel pump died at 60k. Mercedes Roadside covered the $600 tow bill (we were 2 hrs from the nearest dealership). And since the car was still covered by the ELW, Mercedes sent me a $900 reimbursement check for "trip interruption," since I had to pay for a hotel and rental car, while the repairs were being done.

Hope that helps! And best of luck with your search for the perfect W222

Wolfman

Seriously? A 2014 BMW was incredibly dated even at the time and couldn't compete with tech and features with a 2014 S-Class, let alone a 2018. Sounds like you had the bad luck to find an AMG S-Class without HUD, which has been an option and some don't care for it.

If you are looking for an AMG, the S63 facelift is more or less a requirement. Everything on the car is better, new M177 engine, 9-speed MCT transmission, Air Suspension and variable AWD system. Then the usual facelift bits that are mentioned.

carlosinseattle

I bought a a 2017 S550 and it was wonderful! However, within a year I decided that the i wanted the improved tech of the 2018 and newer cars. We refer to the newer cars as "facelifted" but the changes go way beyond a facelift. Even MB says there are 5K+ different parts in the V2 cars, I prefer saying V2 because it's more appropriate. MB cars don't have the vanos system that are consistently troublesome in BMWs, so that's a huge plus! Buying used is very different from buying new. I had a really hard time finding a well optioned S560, I looked for more than 6 months and eventually went for an S63 - I frankly got tired of searching for an S560 with the options I wanted. I found one, listed by a forum member, which was AMAZING, but for less than $10K more I picked up an S63.

As far as the HUD, it's OK. My G90 had a better HUD (bigger brighter graphics, and I could choose from 3 color combinations) but there's only so much information you can pay attention to at one time. With things like gesture and voice control, buttons and switches are less important. On the newer W223 cars, the voice control is awesome and the switches aren't, so when I had my loaner for 8 weeks I used gesture and voice control 90% f the time. A 7 Series has better seats, especially for taller/older people. And BMW also has touch screens in those years, while MB doesn't. Something else to consider.

As far as maintenance and reliability, probably on par with BMW. I personallly think there are less costly repairs with MB, mainly due to no VANOS issues, which are actually frequent on 7 Series, and affect almost all BMW engines. Search the used car listings on Carfax, then read a bunch of the Carfax reports, that will give you an idea of maintenance and repair history.

joeshannon095

The 2014-17 steering wheel might be the ugliest wheel Mercedes fitted to a road car. That clown face image is hard to shake once you’ve seen it!

Alcyone

Ahh the good 'ol German break dust.. annoying for sure! haha! How does the s63 compare in comfort to the s560? From what I read, the suspension is tuned to be more stiff.. Is the remote start and diagnostics an option and require a subscription? The steering wheel media controls are dedicated in the BMW, very convenient, on all Mercedes it seems I had to set the cluster to media and then able to use it media controls. The volume controls are dedicated, but the media controls are not, unless I missed something. In any case, the media controls are not a huge deal, just an observation.

Any car can have an issue, amazing how Mercedes took care of it for you though! Overall, it seems the car is reliable as long as its serviced, no major known issues..?

I think the infotainment, HUD, etc.. features in the BMW are superior even compared to the newer Mercedes, but some of it could be preference. I am not trying to start a BMW vs Mercedes argument, as there are varying opinions, and I might change mine if I end up getting a Mercedes, but in my previous experience with friends who have Mercedes, and the little time I spend playing with things on friends' cars or same years (well equipped), and test drives, not impressed with the infotainment systems. I am not comparing mechanics.

In my search now, I am more inclined to get an S63, they are better equipped, and sportier. But pricier. hah.

I have now switched my focus to searching for an s63 for the same reasons.. hah! I guess I have never experienced the VANOS issues, or any other major issues in all the many years of the various models of 7-series I have owned. I know some have, but I usually get the face lifted (v2) models of the cars and maintain them well. Interestingly, I am going for Mercedes because it's much more comfortable for my height and overall size. The 7s are too small for me.. The Mercedes pedals seem further away and at a more comfortable for my long legs, and the seats are much wider and offer better shoulder room. On paper they seem similar, but the curvature of the seats, and pillars are more comfortable in the Mercedes, also the cabin is quieter, and ride is softer.. I am realizing how old I am sounding as I type this out, lol!

Wolfman

No worries. We are not new to BMW. Every brand has some features that I love or just shake my head over.
I do like the iDrive 7 in the M8 but weren't a huge fan of the old iDrive in our old F02 750li; too many menus. We needed to code a lot to get the car where we wanted it to be but it was a disappointment overall. But there is a world of difference between those models..

I can say that with CarPlay the steering wheel buttons became less relevant and the old Comand in the face lifted S-Class is a mature system and working well. Just add the adapter for wireless CarPlay and all is good.

superpop

Ahh the good 'ol German break dust.. annoying for sure! haha! How does the s63 compare in comfort to the s560? From what I read, the suspension is tuned to be more stiff.. Is the remote start and diagnostics an option and require a subscription? The steering wheel media controls are dedicated in the BMW, very convenient, on all Mercedes it seems I had to set the cluster to media and then able to use it media controls. The volume controls are dedicated, but the media controls are not, unless I missed something. In any case, the media controls are not a huge deal, just an observation.

The S63 in comfort mode is like the S560 in sport mode if that makes sense. Comfort mode on the S63 is not as comfortable as the S560 in comfort mode but there is a service provider here on the forums called "Benz Ninja" that can do all kinds of cool remote coding on most MB models including modification to the comfort mode in the S63 so that it matches the S560 comfort mode settings and feel. I will probably do this at some point as I also want the auto start stop disabled, Euro ILS and a few other things. Remote start is part of an overall package of SW that comes with the Mercedes Me Connect + app. Typically free for a year and then 150 bucks a year. They used to sell the services ala cart and it was like 50 buck a year for just remote start but they wised up last year and changed it to include everything for one flat rate.

carlosinseattle

I'm 6'4" and I do enjoy the MB seats more than the 7-series. The one area where the 7-series seats are better is how you can articulate the high/upper portion to curve forward. It's a great design for people with poor posture like me. But otherwise the S-Class seats are better. And the seating position is better; I struggled to view around the large A-pillar in a 7-series, it seemed like it was too close or something and made me feel claustrophobic. I think you're making a wise decision, both to go with a newer W222, and if options are important, going for an S63. I felt a HUGE difference between the 2017 S550 and the S560 from 2018 and 2019, never drove a 2020 model. It is far more than a "facelift." The difference between the S560 and S63 was of equal magnitude. Just be sure to get as much info as you can before purchasing. You'll hear tons of opinions about what to look for on a used car. One of the things I prefer is one-owner cars. I value a car that hasn't been test driven a bunch and hasn't spent a lot of time on dealership lots. Carfax reports are great, and VMI's are golden.

Alcyone

Coming from BMW forums, there is a lot more knowledge sharing when it comes to diagnostic software and coding, haven't any good sources on Mercedes coding unfortunately... Will have to research this more. I test drove an s63 and it definitely didnt feel as comfortable as an s560 in comfort. Overall, a decent ride.. Also seemed a bit louder inside, more road noise and traffic, but maybe that was just me. I will have to drive another one.

Do you know approximately how much it costs to code the features? Should I decide to need help in case I can't figure it out..


Yes, the upper seat curve forward is an all-time greatest feature!!! We are same height, and seem to be experiencing the same issues it sems... haha! What are VMI's? Vehicle Maintenance Information? My search has definitely narrowed down to '18-'20 S63.

Haven't seen the M8, but have an 2014 F01 (short wheelbase) that runs iDrive 4.0 (NBT), very curious what you coded and what lacked? I personally only coded a few features such as euro spec no-dazzle headlights, remember engine auto-off last setting, Rolls Royce chimes, and that's about it.. find the infotainment extremely intuitive and easy.

I never need to take my eyes off the road to change music, make and take calls, etc.. In the Mercedes it was hard to go through the menus to find the media, to be able to change tracks.. while I was on the freeway driving. But I might just need to get used to it.. What adapter is required for Apple Carplay?

95Sinned420

A 7 series with the n63 engine and reliable? Insane. My brother had a 2013 and that thing was a nightmare. Just flooring it would 50% of the time cause issues and some sort of warning, even limp mode that required a restart to clear. N63....

mercedesbuff

VMI = Vehicle Master Inquiry. It's a Mercedes internal document. Think of it as the Mercedes "dossier" on your car... All her dirty little secrets, everyone she's ever slept with, etc.

It will show:

• Warranty Start Date
• Option Code List
• Production Date
• Campaigns
• Service Packages
• Warranty Repair History
• Customer Pay Data (i.e. maintenance)

Good luck!

Wolfman

Just like M-Cars, AMG's are meant to be louder and firmer. Part of the appeal. The facelift model should also be quite quick, 0-60 should be in the low 3's.
iD7 is great but inferior to MBUX IMO. ID8 is a bloody mess, ID8.5 also not ideal. I'd take MBUX2 over that any day. The old ID4 was good but cumbersome. Of course now you have 20 times the amount of settings and apps. Still my preference was with the Comand navigation.

There is no adapter required for CarPlay unless you like wireless. BMW was the first to offer that; MB took until the W223 for wireless. Check for Carlinkit adapters. Plug into a USB port and you can keep the phone in your pocket.

Here is a pic of the M8 Comp coupe...

Alcyone

For sure, the first the generation N63 was troublesome. Everyone would say get the 2014+ N63TU. The update fixed any reliability issues, and they have kept building on top of that.

Is this something I can request at the dealer? I am looking at an S63 now, still has remaining CPO warranty, was thinking to take it to dealer to do inspection, and ask for records..

Very nice looking M8!

The 18-'20 models have NGT 5.5, the MBUX is in the newer models, or MBUX general term?

Ill check out the adapter, wireless is definitely more convenient. Thanks!

Wolfman

Most refer the operating systems as Comand or MBUX and MB.OS moving forward. The W222 has Comand (NTG5x, 5.5 was the last version of the legacy Comand system), MBUX (NTG6x), MBUX2 (NTG7x)
iDrive 7 was BMW's effort to catchup to MB's MBUX. MBUX is better in every way apart from CarPlay which reduces the layout to only about 60% of the screen real estate. MBUX2 introduced zero layer layout which eliminates any need for menu layers. BMW tried to do the same with ID8.5

But MBUX has significantly improved HUD's and allows for CarPlay data and 3rd party navigation or augmented reality navigation amongst other useful info.

Alcyone

Is there any possibility to retrofit newer MBUX in a w222?

Wolfman

No. Different hardware and software.

carlosinseattle

The VMI is pretty much only for the dealer. They are not obligated to show it to you. But since the car you're considering is at the MB dealer, you might ask the salesman to ask the service advisor to review the VMI with you. They definitely won't give you a copy because it contains prevous owners' information along with all the service history. Again,the aren't obligated to show the VMI to anybody. Some service advisors will do it as a courtesy while others won't. I had a pretty good relationship with the service advisor at my local MB dealership because I my S550 was under CPO warranty. I learned that my soon to be new to me S63 was officially a 2 owner car before me. Turns out the original owner bought the car at the end of his 3 year corporate lease, and since he owned the company the registered name and address stayed the same. That gave me a lot of comfort, even though there are no guarantees. He might have only kept it because there weren't any decent cars available in 2021 because of supply chain shortages. Who knows???

To your point about ride quality; the first S63 I drove rode like a tank, and sounded like one too. It had close to 70K on the odometer, but looked phenomonal, I passed on it. The one I bought rides glass smooth and sounds great in all modes, never over bearing. Tires can change the feel of the car tremendously, take a look at the tires for type wear and age. The CPO program from MB is primarily a warranty, they don't really go over the cars like they should. But the 1 year warranty part is great, and if you plan to keep it longer than a couple years I'd suggest adding the 2 extra years.

S_W222

Actually, I have seen it done and retrofitted on other Mbenz cars like C-class and E-class. I don't know about the S-class. Max [ @EleBest ] from EleBest Pte Ltd has done according to what I saw on his channel, but he can be a better person to answer that

Wolfman

That's very interesting.
I assume that the change works due to the fact that the W213 E-Class was available first with Comand and then with MBUX so that the head unit and dual screen could be swapped/coded. That wasn't the case with the W222. The E-Class Dual screen is different and MBUX requires a touch screen. Then there is the coding.

But if possible, it could be interesting even if expensive. MBUX is great now that it uses Chat GPT for conversational voice recognition...

Alcyone

What tires do you have on yours now? I will check the tires on the one I am looking to get.. Not sure I can get additional warranty; it's a private salve and he is transferring the remaining CPO to me. Is there any 3rd party warranty's worth looking at?