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What do you mean not for the 223? I believe this will impact the ability to buy an S63e or S73e so it will apply to the S Class but it probably is not on the list because the car has not even been announced yet. But I hope it does not impact the AMG S class variant. Guess I better hang on to my '19 S63.
Originally Posted by E55Greasemonkey
Not for the 223, this has been posted all over this website. Close this thread.
What do you mean not for the 223? I believe this will impact the ability to buy an S63e or S73e so it will apply to the S Class but it probably is not on the list because the car has not even been announced yet. But I hope it does not impact the AMG S class variant. Guess I better hang on to my '19 S63.
It may not impact S63/s73 since they both will be hybrid but time will tell as like you said they haven't been announced yet. I will hold on to my 2018 s63 as well. At this pace we may be getting the mid cycle refresh
Not for the 223, this has been posted all over this website. Close this thread.
Don't be so quick with that closing.
Read the actual bulletin dealers received, it says ALL V8s are going to be suspended with the exception of S580 and S580 Maybach.
You are partially right about W223 as the 580 and anything below will continue to be made.
All hybrids that have V8, like S63e or S73 are also not going to be produced for the remainder of the moratorium.
The whole affair just stinks, the "supplies problems" are a very weird excuse as it applies only to V8s, what is so very unique that the V8 engine needs and the V6 does not?
I guess the existing S63s are not going to depreciate this Fall as much as they normally would with the new S-Class introduced, S65, being the last V12s (beside Maybach) are already going up in values, the fresh, late models (2018 and up) in particular.
I wish I could keep the S63 but I have no space for it unfortunately so it goes to Knauz.
A trusted enthusiast/insider on Instagram is saying that a reveal on 9/1/21 is scheduled for the GT63e despite the current suspension. I guess maybe we’ll get some insight into MY23?
A trusted enthusiast/insider on Instagram is saying that a reveal on 9/1/21 is scheduled for the GT63e despite the current suspension. I guess maybe we’ll get some insight into MY23?
The whole affair just stinks, the "supplies problems" are a very weird excuse as it applies only to V8s, what is so very unique that the V8 engine needs and the V6 does not?
I guess the existing S63s are not going to depreciate this Fall as much as they normally would with the new S-Class introduced, S65, being the last V12s (beside Maybach) are already going up in values, the fresh, late models (2018 and up) in particular.
I wish I could keep the S63 but I have no space for it unfortunately so it goes to Knauz.
They aren't going to just permanently drop all their V8 vehicles like that for a lineup of non existent EVs yet. There is something else going on here. We all know they're going to switch over to EVs, but not this abruptly. The V8s will be back at some point before the changeover happens. You don't develop a new hybrid system to go with the V8 and then just drop the whole thing in a day or two. Emissions regulations/requirements are known about years in advance so that isn't it either.
2021 Cirrus Silver S580 AMG, 2020 Polar White GLE350
Daimler AG has not issued an official announcement to the press on the suspension of most V8’s for the US market. The memo to dealers says that Mercedes is prioritizing its commitment “to comply with various global, external and internal requirements, as well as several other factors” which include supply change issues. I am attaching a recent quarterly update to shareholders on “Strategy” that includes a video from the Daimler CEO on accelerating their strategy to go all electric. The suspension of the V8 engine for most models in the US fits the strategy. After the 2022 model year, will the suspension of the V8 be lifted, or will Daimler AG view that as backsliding on their strategy? I don’t know, but in 2023 it will be more difficult to justify bringing the V8 back into the lineup for many models. I don’t have the answers, but read the attachment sent to shareholders (particularly “Production Plan”)as it has a bearing on the future of the V8. https://www.daimler.com/company/stra...ric-drive.html
They aren't going to just permanently drop all their V8 vehicles like that for a lineup of non existent EVs yet. There is something else going on here. We all know they're going to switch over to EVs, but not this abruptly. The V8s will be back at some point before the changeover happens. You don't develop a new hybrid system to go with the V8 and then just drop the whole thing in a day or two. Emissions regulations/requirements are known about years in advance so that isn't it either.
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This is the "moment". It's a pivot point for MB, pent up demand will make it easier to add hybridization to all V8's. Cheaper than paying the fines.
2021 Cirrus Silver S580 AMG, 2020 Polar White GLE350
On August 5, Joe Biden’s Executive Order 13990 cleared legal challenges to rolling back Donald Trump’s CAFE relief orders. Effective on model year 2022, the civil penalty for not meeting the fleet average in MPG jumps from $5.50 to $14.00 for each tenth mile and the stringency rate goes from 1.5% to 8% a year. The suspension of most V8’s in Mercedes’ model lineup coincides with huge increase in civil penalties for missing CAFE requirements starting with model year 2022. Could just be a coincidence, any thoughts? P.S. If you were to miss the CAFE requirement by 1 MPG, and you shipped 275,000 cars to the US, the resulting fine would total $38.5 million!
On August 5, Joe Biden’s Executive Order 13990 cleared legal challenges to rolling back Donald Trump’s CAFE relief orders. Effective on model year 2022, the civil penalty for not meeting the fleet average in MPG jumps from $5.50 to $14.00 for each tenth mile and the stringency rate goes from 1.5% to 8% a year. The suspension of most V8’s in Mercedes’ model lineup coincides with huge increase in civil penalties for missing CAFE requirements starting with model year 2022. Could just be a coincidence, any thoughts? P.S. If you were to miss the CAFE requirement by 1 MPG, and you shipped 275,000 cars to the US, the resulting fine would total $38.5 million!
Assuming this is accurate (which I'm sure is), this explains so much of what is happening.
So what happens to vehicles like the G wagon that only have v8's?
So do we believe this is supply issues or EV related?
I got nervous, since I have an October production G63 order already closed (no changes allowed), checked with dealer and they checked with MB, thankfully the cut is for December but the car is rolled back to 2021 (no difference to me, same car anyway).
All Gs have a crazy market situation already, this thing will only make it worse, new one runs about $250k now, are they going to $300k???
Crazy **** and crazy World.....
2021 Cirrus Silver S580 AMG, 2020 Polar White GLE350
To give some insight to the severity of the problem Mercedes is facing with the new CAFE targets and increased penalties, here are some statistics from the “Congressional Research Service Vehicle Fuel Economy And Greenhouse Standards: Frequently Asked Questions…Updated June 1, 2021”. The following are the CAFE Requirements (MPG) and actual performance for Daimler/Mercedes, BMW and Volkswagen for model year 2019, the latest year available: Daimler/Mercedes CAFE 39.8 Perf. 32.5; BMW CAFE 40.7 Perf. 36.1; Volkswagen CAFE 42.7 Perf. 40.7 (Note that CAFE requirements are slightly different for each manufacturer due to a complicated formula based on air conditioner refrigerants, etc.). The credits each manufacturer was carrying into 2020 are as follows: Daimler/Mercedes 304,262, BMW 6,013,161, Volkswagen 2,629,693. The bottom line is that Mercedes is not meeting the CAFE requirement and is most likely out of credits. The increase in fines from $5.50 to $14.00 for each 1/10 mpg shortfall will be huge. And the CAFE target will go up 8% annually. I do not think it is coincidence that Mercedes is dropping most V8 models in the US, while continuing to provide V8’s to other countries and to Austin Martin and Jaguar.
The environment is ripe for cutting V8s altogether in the US. With Cafe stds/penalties and the world pressure to go electric I am betting this is the beginning of the end for Mercedes V8s in the US. I am hoping the S63e/S73e makes it to the US but I am starting to think the next AMG developments will no longer include any V8s anymore but will be the use of the YASA acquisition and the use of the axial-flux electric motors in the high performance AMG line. One just has to look at the late July 2021 change in strategy that Daimler has published that SIGNIFICANTLY ramps up the timeline to go all electric. I hate the idea that V8s are dead but that is what this looks like to me.
So the question becomes for us MB v8 owners, afecionados,etc. what to do. Buy Sell Hold. .??
My answer is Hold. V8s or V12s for that matter are destined to become automotive dinosaurs . So did Duesenbergs, Cords, and others big engine classic cars of the era.
Im tracking s65 and sl65 prices and I’m detecting Buy market, prices for these used cars bounced significantly shortly after MB announcement on v12 termination (except Maybach). Where do they go from here?
Looks like MB is now not the only company suspending engines, as GM sent to dealers this week a notice informing them that their 3.0L Duramax Diesel Engine will be suspended citing a supplier shortage.
Looks like MB is now not the only company suspending engines, as GM sent to dealers this week a notice informing them that their 3.0L Duramax Diesel Engine will be suspended citing a supplier shortage.
08-15-2021, 11:10 AM
