Another complaint
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,584
Likes: 3,692
From: Land of 10,000 lakes
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
When a pickup truck goes for $80k+ these days, $130k for an S-Class is barely in the luxury category anymore.
I am not not making fun of this but I wonder how many realize just how cheap the S-class is.
Our old W140 S-class (regular S500) twenty some years ago was well equipped but not fully loaded and came in at over $180k, adjusted for inflation. So did our SL R129.
Both cars were rock solid but not without issues either, yet there wasn’t anything better on the market at any price.
The same holds true today. Whatever quibbles people have with the W223, it is the best luxury sedan in the world.
Neither Audi, BMW, Bentley, RR, etc can match it…
I am not not making fun of this but I wonder how many realize just how cheap the S-class is.
Our old W140 S-class (regular S500) twenty some years ago was well equipped but not fully loaded and came in at over $180k, adjusted for inflation. So did our SL R129.
Both cars were rock solid but not without issues either, yet there wasn’t anything better on the market at any price.
The same holds true today. Whatever quibbles people have with the W223, it is the best luxury sedan in the world.
Neither Audi, BMW, Bentley, RR, etc can match it…
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3,360
Likes: 1,529
From: Washington DC
No more MB:(
The term "luxury category" is overused and has been watered down. Meaning has changed and is more subjective than ever thus allowing companies to charge more for their products. Price does not determine luxury, price can only define and create exclusivity. IMO the truck is overpriced, doesn't mean anything other than the S is a fair bargain compared to it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,368
Likes: 4,742
From: Maryland
2024 S580
When a pickup truck goes for $80k+ these days, $130k for an S-Class is barely in the luxury category anymore.
I am not not making fun of this but I wonder how many realize just how cheap the S-class is.
Our old W140 S-class (regular S500) twenty some years ago was well equipped but not fully loaded and came in at over $180k, adjusted for inflation. So did our SL R129.
Both cars were rock solid but not without issues either, yet there wasn’t anything better on the market at any price.
The same holds true today. Whatever quibbles people have with the W223, it is the best luxury sedan in the world.
Neither Audi, BMW, Bentley, RR, etc can match it…
I am not not making fun of this but I wonder how many realize just how cheap the S-class is.
Our old W140 S-class (regular S500) twenty some years ago was well equipped but not fully loaded and came in at over $180k, adjusted for inflation. So did our SL R129.
Both cars were rock solid but not without issues either, yet there wasn’t anything better on the market at any price.
The same holds true today. Whatever quibbles people have with the W223, it is the best luxury sedan in the world.
Neither Audi, BMW, Bentley, RR, etc can match it…
Any argument that we should be satisfied with issues like this because the S Class is a "bargain" is just laughable. Its not the "best luxury sedan in the world" if it has constant annoying problems that keep it off the road. Give me a problem free A8 or 7 Series or LS any day of the week over a problematic S Class. And Bentley and Rolls Royce can't touch it? Come on lol. Thats fanboy talk.
Now, be clear I'm not saying that the W223 is "problematic" I'm defending those who have issues because I know how frustrating those issues are. There clearly are some significant quality issues on some of these cars MB needs to work on, and I would certainly wait to get one until I see this stuff has been worked through.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,999
Likes: 1,352
From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
When a pickup truck goes for $80k+ these days, $130k for an S-Class is barely in the luxury category anymore.
I am not not making fun of this but I wonder how many realize just how cheap the S-class is.
Our old W140 S-class (regular S500) twenty some years ago was well equipped but not fully loaded and came in at over $180k, adjusted for inflation. So did our SL R129.
Both cars were rock solid but not without issues either, yet there wasn’t anything better on the market at any price.
The same holds true today. Whatever quibbles people have with the W223, it is the best luxury sedan in the world.
Neither Audi, BMW, Bentley, RR, etc can match it…
I am not not making fun of this but I wonder how many realize just how cheap the S-class is.
Our old W140 S-class (regular S500) twenty some years ago was well equipped but not fully loaded and came in at over $180k, adjusted for inflation. So did our SL R129.
Both cars were rock solid but not without issues either, yet there wasn’t anything better on the market at any price.
The same holds true today. Whatever quibbles people have with the W223, it is the best luxury sedan in the world.
Neither Audi, BMW, Bentley, RR, etc can match it…
The irony is that I can remember when the W124 was new thinking it would be great if they were more affordable such that more people would have access to a car that was as safe. This has happened. If I recall correctly the base price on a '86 W124 was $40k which would translate to $80K in 2010 vs $50k base price for a W212. Not only that but the newer cars are much more complicated so it does seem unfair to hold them to the same standard.
Last edited by MBNUT1; Oct 13, 2021 at 12:52 PM.
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,584
Likes: 3,692
From: Land of 10,000 lakes
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Thats just not true. If you look at the competition the S Class is far and away the most expensive car in the segment, $130,000 is more expensive than almost all vehicles considered "mainstream luxury cars". $130,000 is also a modestly optioned S580, the car mentioned by the OP was over $140,000. The car can be optioned to over $200k, and none of the issues mentioned would be relegated to less expensive trims. what they may have cost adjusted for inflation in the past doesn't mean anything.
Any argument that we should be satisfied with issues like this because the S Class is a "bargain" is just laughable. Its not the "best luxury sedan in the world" if it has constant annoying problems that keep it off the road. Give me a problem free A8 or 7 Series or LS any day of the week over a problematic S Class. And Bentley and Rolls Royce can't touch it? Come on lol. Thats fanboy talk.
Now, be clear I'm not saying that the W223 is "problematic" I'm defending those who have issues because I know how frustrating those issues are. There clearly are some significant quality issues on some of these cars MB needs to work on, and I would certainly wait to get one until I see this stuff has been worked through.
Any argument that we should be satisfied with issues like this because the S Class is a "bargain" is just laughable. Its not the "best luxury sedan in the world" if it has constant annoying problems that keep it off the road. Give me a problem free A8 or 7 Series or LS any day of the week over a problematic S Class. And Bentley and Rolls Royce can't touch it? Come on lol. Thats fanboy talk.
Now, be clear I'm not saying that the W223 is "problematic" I'm defending those who have issues because I know how frustrating those issues are. There clearly are some significant quality issues on some of these cars MB needs to work on, and I would certainly wait to get one until I see this stuff has been worked through.
You keep on bringing up $130k which does not carry you are far as it once did and S-Classes are cheaper than they used to be compared to older models people love to compare them to even if not relevant to you.I look at the overall capabilities of the car, its features, safety and tech and it is the most advanced sedan available at any price. I can only assume you haven't driven RR's or Bentleys based on your statements. While they are incredibly luxurious, highly configurable and well build (after the Germans took over those companies), they are special purpose vehicles and technically still not close to the S-Class. The Bentley comes close in drive dynamics due it platform roots but misses some safety tech, user tech etc.
You are also make assumptions that BMW's and Audis are completely trouble-free which I find astounding... I can't speak to the LS but don't consider the car technically competitive. Granted that am biased here...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,838
Likes: 1,601
From: Florida
The irony is that I can remember when the W124 was new thinking it would be great if they were more affordable such that more people would have access to a car that was as safe. This has happened. If I recall correctly the base price on a '86 W124 was $40k which would translate to $80K in 2010 vs $50k base price for a W212. Not only that but the newer cars are much more complicated so it does seem unfair to hold them to the same standard.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,368
Likes: 4,742
From: Maryland
2024 S580
I guess you missed my point and make references that are not related to my post You keep on bringing up $130k which does not carry you are far as it once did and S-Classes are cheaper than they used to be compared to older models people love to compare them to even if not relevant to you.
You keep on bringing up $130k which does not carry you are far as it once did and S-Classes are cheaper than they used to be compared to older models people love to compare them to even if not relevant to you.
I look at the overall capabilities of the car, its features, safety and tech and it is the most advanced sedan available at any price. I can only assume you haven't driven RR's or Bentleys based on your statements. While they are incredibly luxurious, highly configurable and well build (after the Germans took over those companies), they are special purpose vehicles and technically still not close to the S-Class. The Bentley comes close in drive dynamics due it platform roots but misses some safety tech, user tech etc.
You are also make assumptions that BMW's and Audis are completely trouble-free which I find astounding... I can't speak to the LS but don't consider the car technically competitive. Granted that am biased here...
My point is...if your W223 is problematic like the OP's and some others here...none of the W223's benefits outweigh the frustration and wasted time that comes with having a problematic car. Perhaps you have never had a car that just had a lot of problems and frustrations, but I have and *no* car is worth dealing with that.
I love my S Class, but if I were having problems like this, I would go back to Lexus in a second, even if the car isn't as good overall.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
Likes: 350
From: Huntington NY
S560
The 7 Series and A8 have been out for a while, and any issues with them are ironed out. I don't recall any teething issues when the G12 and D5 came out that are on the level of what some are experiencing here. I haven't driven a W223, but none of the reviews I've read lead me to believe it drives dramatically better than my W222, and I can tell you thats the G12 7 Series and D5 A8 are very similar to the S Class in driving excellence.
My point is...if your W223 is problematic like the OP's and some others here...none of the W223's benefits outweigh the frustration and wasted time that comes with having a problematic car. Perhaps you have never had a car that just had a lot of problems and frustrations, but I have and *no* car is worth dealing with that.
I love my S Class, but if I were having problems like this, I would go back to Lexus in a second, even if the car isn't as good overall.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
New Mercedes-AMG SUVs Arrive With NEW V8 Engine: 12 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
8 Oddball Mercedes Ideas That Actually Made it to Production
Verdad Gallardo
Dubai Tuner Gives the Mercedes G-Class An Entirely New Look
Verdad Gallardo
Six Gift Ideas Your AMG Loving Dad or Grad Will Cherish
7 Craziest Things AMG Gas Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
New Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4-Door Coupe Unveiled: 10 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,368
Likes: 4,742
From: Maryland
2024 S580
I’m not saying it is a “dumpster fire”, I’m just saying you’d be just as pissed as the OP if your car exhibited these issues. All the “rationalization” in the world isn’t going to make it more fun to deal with.
The arguments that this should be expected are just silly.
The arguments that this should be expected are just silly.
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,584
Likes: 3,692
From: Land of 10,000 lakes
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
But that doesn’t mean it’s indicative of the brand or the model.
Last edited by Wolfman; Oct 14, 2021 at 03:03 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 14,714
Likes: 4,606
From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
I think Mercedes is a warm steaming mess in terms of new delivered quality and medium term reliability. Let's throw dealer experience into the warm steaming pile.
This is borne out on W223, V167 and prior models.
It's not one model, it "comes with the package" when buying an MB.
This is borne out on W223, V167 and prior models.
It's not one model, it "comes with the package" when buying an MB.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
Likes: 350
From: Huntington NY
S560
I think Mercedes is a warm steaming mess in terms of new delivered quality and medium term reliability. Let's throw dealer experience into the warm steaming pile.
This is borne out on W223, V167 and prior models.
It's not one model, it "comes with the package" when buying an MB.
This is borne out on W223, V167 and prior models.
It's not one model, it "comes with the package" when buying an MB.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,368
Likes: 4,742
From: Maryland
2024 S580
Couldn't disagree with you more. My dealership experience is excellent. 2007 W221s had numerous initial problems, but everyone chocked that up to first year issues, in 2021 it's because MB is a steaming pile of something. My W222 has only one issue to date, a secondary battery that needed to be replaced. My R231 has not had an issue. I frequent other forums and new vehicle launches are stymied with problems, Just look at the new Escalade- engines are literally grenaiding all over the place (a 60+ year old design!!!).
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3,360
Likes: 1,529
From: Washington DC
No more MB:(
Sure it is. If it's not indicative of brand or model then what is it indicative of? Even teething issues are brand/model related, and vendor problems are not related to quality.
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,584
Likes: 3,692
From: Land of 10,000 lakes
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
It indicates that this member has an issue with his car, nothing more, nothing less.
Last edited by Wolfman; Oct 14, 2021 at 03:27 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 41
Likes: 48
S580
Real world experience, my s580 is 2 months old with 2000 miles and NO issues. I had a Toyota 4 runner which I had to lemon law, it happens with all manufactures. Seems to me there are only a few people on this forum with real issues. For those people, I am sorry, it sucks. There have been many 2021 S classes sold here in the US and abroad. If there was some massive engineering problem it would be all over the internet. Most people complaining about the car don't own one and my guess is they probably never driven one.
If you don't like the new design don't buy the car, its not for you.
I am 50 years old and absolutely love the car, including the interior. .
Mercedes did a hell of a job with the new s class, just my real world experience.
If you don't like the new design don't buy the car, its not for you.
I am 50 years old and absolutely love the car, including the interior. .
Mercedes did a hell of a job with the new s class, just my real world experience.
Last edited by Martsman; Oct 14, 2021 at 04:51 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3,360
Likes: 1,529
From: Washington DC
No more MB:(
In this isolated case yes. However if an entire model is plagued (which is not the case with the 223, and hopefully not likely to be) such as the GLE or any other make then is IS indicative of that brand/model, which is what I meant with my statement.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,002
Likes: 398
1991 190E 2.3
Making an assumption about a [articular model and an entire brand based on a small number of posts in an online forum is also wrong. There's no way to tell from this small group of posts what the overall picture for the model and the brand actually is. Making such an assumption is about as unscientific as it gets. That's been my point from the beginning.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 451
Likes: 180
Volvo XC90
Well, you are wrong. The complaints here are from owners of the W223 S Class. Why make silly statements?
My car arrives next month. Crossing my fingers that everything is great on my car.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 41
Likes: 48
S580
Nothing silly about my statement.
I am just trying to say that most people are not having issues.
Last edited by Martsman; Oct 15, 2021 at 03:24 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 451
Likes: 180
Volvo XC90
The complainants own the car. Are you referring to people empathizing with the complainants? Sorry if you feel that individuals that have been brand loyalists aren’t allowed to empathize with a complainant or to provide their opinion on customer service issues.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 41
Likes: 48
S580
You win!!
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 14,714
Likes: 4,606
From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Stockholm syndrome and denial of buyer's remorse.
Agree with what I interpret to be @places line of thinking. It is indeed possible to draw broad conclusions on whether or not a new model launch is a flop, based on discussion forum comments and on one's own life experience. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's almost assuredly a duck. It doesn't require to have been a duck in a previous life to make the assessment.
Duck in this case is a flopped new model launch. To wit: the X/V167. Too early to tell yet if the W223 will carry on the family tradition from the X/V167. Hopefully the W223 will suffer only a few niggles, not the full diaper of the X/V167.
Good thing none of the W223 variants have the M264 4 cylinder engine (used in the V167 and other current models), which is descended from the piston-cracking M274. Ask the W213, W205 and X253 owners.
Agree with what I interpret to be @places line of thinking. It is indeed possible to draw broad conclusions on whether or not a new model launch is a flop, based on discussion forum comments and on one's own life experience. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's almost assuredly a duck. It doesn't require to have been a duck in a previous life to make the assessment.
Duck in this case is a flopped new model launch. To wit: the X/V167. Too early to tell yet if the W223 will carry on the family tradition from the X/V167. Hopefully the W223 will suffer only a few niggles, not the full diaper of the X/V167.
Good thing none of the W223 variants have the M264 4 cylinder engine (used in the V167 and other current models), which is descended from the piston-cracking M274. Ask the W213, W205 and X253 owners.
Last edited by chassis; Oct 16, 2021 at 09:44 AM.
