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You are totally right. We see this on the Lexus forums too, its great you think your 20 year old LS430 is better built than an LS500...but nobody is deciding between a new $90,000 LS500 and a $6,500 20 year old LS430. Nobody shopping for the new car has any interest in an ancient old one irregardless of how incredible the doors felt when they closed.
Part of it too is that emphasis has shifted. If you look at those old Benzes, all they had was solidity and build quality. They had very little technology or comfort features to speak of, were built from a function first form second standpoint. They didnt even have cupholders. Look at all the tech in a W223...when you consider that the product is delivered with all of that tech at a price adjusted for inflation which if anything is LESS than those old Benzes...something had to give.
That's exactly my point. The money is going into technology and not durability like the older cars and the newer MB's are suffering on the durability front as a result.
I am the OP, for anyone interested In knowing If this is resolved....no. My car has been escalated to German engineers because according to MBUSA theirs couldn't figure out the distronic brake problem. Very disconcerting. The dealership has now had my car 2 weeks, 1 longer than I did.
Are there good things to say about this car as well? Too many to list, ( I do have massage seats) but they all dim from memory when your driving a loaner basic E with the stiff and ridiculous "faux leather" and a giant dealership sticker on the back window.
This must be extremely annoying. You should tell the dealer that you expect a check from them for the non-use of the vehicle. Something equivalent to a month payment (lease or finance) even if you purchased the car straight out.
While they won't be happy to comply, this is common practice. After all, the clock is also ticking for a potential buy-back...
This must be extremely annoying. You should tell the dealer that you expect a check from them for the non-use of the vehicle. Something equivalent to a month payment (lease or finance) even if you purchased the car straight out.
While they won't be happy to comply, this is common practice. After all, the clock is also ticking for a potential buy-back...
Good luck!
Thanks for actually addressing my issue, I didn't really think about doing that since I paid cash for the car, but I am going to contact the general manager of the dealership right now to see what they are willing to do. Frankly they only have 5 days left till the lemon law in GA kicks in, so I'm kind of hoping just to get my money back at this point.
Go for it, Kelly. You paid for a great drive. Yes, it’s a new model….but I do not think you signed up as a “Beta” driver/owner. You deserve more.
I no longer own my S580…but I am still the recipient of e mail notices for the “another complaint” section of this forum. Hard to look the other other way at this point.
Go for it, Kelly. You paid for a great drive. Yes, it’s a new model….but I do not think you signed up as a “Beta” driver/owner. You deserve more.
I no longer own my S580…but I am still the recipient of e mail notices for the “another complaint” section of this forum. Hard to look the other other way at this point.
My dealership is asking $20,000 over sticker. If I ever do buy another MB , it won’t be there. I’m sorry that you all are have troubles. It’s a tough time for buying and service.
Very sobering news, while others improve (even considering any anomalies like with Dodge), MB is well below the industry avg well below most of their direct competitors, and dropping; one can only rest on their laurels for so long...
We all want reliable cars. At this point however, i'll still take an S class over the LS-500, Audi A8 and BMW 750 any day of the week. Its about the driving experience. And nothing out there drives as nice as an S class. The new S class will have some issues year one. (expected). The extra wide doors and reflection of the vent, not to mention the Tesla like screen and door handles - yup, poor design choices for sure. This is a bad time to buy new cars with all the chip shortages (hence some of the missing features). Hopefully by the time the lease on my S560 is up (late 2022) the 2023 S Class will be all sorted out. On a side note - Porsche cars are designed with the driver in mind. They are fantastic to drive, are very reliable and would be my second option if the S-Class doesn't get sorted out.
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We all want reliable cars. At this point however, i'll still take an S class over the LS-500, Audi A8 and BMW 750 any day of the week. Its about the driving experience. And nothing out there drives as nice as an S class. The new S class will have some issues year one. (expected). The extra wide doors and reflection of the vent, not to mention the Tesla like screen and door handles - yup, poor design choices for sure. This is a bad time to buy new cars with all the chip shortages (hence some of the missing features). Hopefully by the time the lease on my S560 is up (late 2022) the 2023 S Class will be all sorted out. On a side note - Porsche cars are designed with the driver in mind. They are fantastic to drive, are very reliable and would be my second option if the S-Class doesn't get sorted out.
Lets be honest though, the differences are subtle. I came from 4 Lexus LS sedans, and yes my S Class drives better, but its very subtle. When you compare it to a modern 750 or A8 60 those cars also drive really well, as does the LS500. I drove the 750, a8 60 and S560 over and over and over again back to back deciding which one to get, and they all drive pretty similarly. The issues with the LS500 are interior room and not having a V8 option, basically. If the LS500 was larger inside and had a nice refined smooth V8, I could go back to one and be happy. BMW 7 and Audi A8 its a choice of styling, approach to interior design way moreso than how they drive.
Sure the S Class is "the best", but how many headaches are worth driving the car thats "the best"? Not many IMO. If I had a W223 and had the issues some people here are describing, I would take no comfort in the concept that my car drives "the best".
Sure the S Class is "the best", but how many headaches are worth driving the car thats "the best"? Not many IMO. If I had a W223 and had the issues some people here are describing, I would take no comfort in the concept that my car drives "the best".
Wouldn't it be more professional to just buy what you want, join their forum and leave it at that?
What satisfaction do we get bad-mouthing a well know brand that many appreciate?
Are we trying to drive their sales down?
Expect MB to fix issues based on forum negative experiences?
I can assure you that forums are NOT the way to share dissatisfaction.
J.D power is far from accurate. Companies pay for a better rating. Consumer Reports usually provides more accurate information.
Exactly, and look how Jeep, Dodge & Ram fare very well BUT Chrysler is the worse!
***For those that don't know Dodge, Ram and Chrysler are the same company sharing many of the same major components!
Wouldn't it be more professional to just buy what you want, join their forum and leave it at that?
What satisfaction do we get bad-mouthing a well know brand that many appreciate?
Are we trying to drive their sales down?
Expect MB to fix issues based on forum negative experiences?
I can assure you that forums are NOT the way to share dissatisfaction.
So people that want to spend money on an expensive purchase should just put the blinders on, buy the car then join the forum? Forget potential buyers research or current owners sharing issues?
No bad mouthing if stating fact. Would you like to censor forums?
That's a reach, you're stating your opinion and fact as it relates to YOU.
I've said my piece.
Carry on living miserably...
So 42 posts in 8 years and this is your contribution? Apparently you haven't spent enough time on many forums, this is what forums around the world are about. Go ahead and live in your little corner.
People spend a lot money on these cars and there are plenty of enthusiasts and potential buyers that would like to get some first hand feedback that doesn't come from biased media reviews. I think your 5 posts for the year are up, you can check out now.
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
Wouldn't it be more professional to just buy what you want, join their forum and leave it at that?
What satisfaction do we get bad-mouthing a well know brand that many appreciate?
Are we trying to drive their sales down?
Expect MB to fix issues based on forum negative experiences?
I can assure you that forums are NOT the way to share dissatisfaction.
I’m sorry, but I must disagree. It’s bringing issues to light in these forums that help others find solutions. I don’t think anyone here is trying to hurt MB, rather they are sharing their negative experiences with the brand, in hopes of hearing what others have done to remedy similar problems. Many share their positive experiences as well. That’s EXACTLY what these forums are for.
Wouldn't it be more professional to just buy what you want, join their forum and leave it at that?
What satisfaction do we get bad-mouthing a well know brand that many appreciate?
Are we trying to drive their sales down?
Expect MB to fix issues based on forum negative experiences?
I can assure you that forums are NOT the way to share dissatisfaction.
Last time I checked this thread was started by someone who had a W223 and the "another complaint" was about their experience with the car this forum is in reference to.
So you want forums to be an echo chamber where only positive experiences are allowed and anybody who has a negative experience should just be quiet? Because those forums exist.
I have been a part of a lot of car forums as I have had a lot of cars, and I have seen forums that are very real and forums that are as you describe you think they should be. Those forums are not helpful in any way. I don't need validation that my purchase choices were amazing. I need real information that can help me decide if buying a certain car is a good choice, and I need real information that can help me deal with issues that come up after I have the car...and on top of that I also want to talk to people who are enthusiastic.
MBWorld is very real, which I like. Not a lot of fanboys here calling people with real issues down like you have done which makes it a very good forum. I'm also a member on ClubLexus which is also a very good forum, but is over-moderated in an effort to stamp out any sort of conflict or disagreement.
My post that you responded to simply said, if I had a car with a bunch of problems I would find no comfort in the concept that its the "best driving car". I would rather have a slightly not the best but still excellent driving car without all the problems. These issues described here are inexcusable in a car that is supposed to be the "best or nothing"
Exactly, and look how Jeep, Dodge & Ram fare very well BUT Chrysler is the worse!
***For those that don't know Dodge, Ram and Chrysler are the same company sharing many of the same major components!
As someone who has a Chrysler, the ratings are deserved. Just because they are all made by the same company doesnt mean the specific models they sell within each sub brand are the same.
Just my two cents:
Having owned a BMW 7 series, an Audi A6, and a 2020 Tesla S, I must say that my new S580 is the best car I have owned. I love the comfort, the tech (the main reason I bought the Tesla), the styling, and the fact that I just “feel good” in the car. I LIKE the center large screen and the basic layout. Yes, there are a few new model year glitches but I feel they will be resolved. I don’t miss the omitted massage seats - I had them in my 2017 EClass - but I do want the front pillows that were missing. They are on order from the local dealer’s parts department.
So I guess it’s a matter of taste in design and riding experiences in previous cars that make for all these comments. But, I love my new car!
Just my two cents:
Having owned a BMW 7 series, an Audi A6, and a 2020 Tesla S, I must say that my new S580 is the best car I have owned. I love the comfort, the tech (the main reason I bought the Tesla), the styling, and the fact that I just “feel good” in the car. I LIKE the center large screen and the basic layout. Yes, there are a few new model year glitches but I feel they will be resolved. I don’t miss the omitted massage seats - I had them in my 2017 EClass - but I do want the front pillows that were missing. They are on order from the local dealer’s parts department.
So I guess it’s a matter of taste in design and riding experiences in previous cars that make for all these comments. But, I love my new car!
Design opinions are just that, opinions. If you had a bunch of these problems people are talking about though...you'd be really unhappy. I have had cars with those sort of problems before and it is beyond maddening, and those cars were not $130,000.
I haven't driven one, but I have no doubt it drives beautifully is extremely comfortable and well made. However...none of that makes up for maddening failures that keep requiring owners to bring the car back to the dealer. Thats inexcusable at this level, and having had cars like that before thats absolutely a deal killer for me. Having to f around with doorhandles that don't work and **** that won't engage and function like it should is just maddening...and those issues aren't straightforward for the dealer to diagnose in most situations which leads to long dealer visits and long periods off the road...just awful. Thats why I don't have a Range Rover. NO VEHICLE is worth putting up with that, no matter how fabulous it may be otherwise.
Hopefully they can get it together and the car will be as well sorted as the W222 was...at this point I absolutely would wait for 2022...
So well stated, SW. I miss having the S….just not the one I had. Aggravating? Punishing? Such puny words to describe my three weeks with it. Still grieving, tho.
Design opinions are just that, opinions. If you had a bunch of these problems people are talking about though...you'd be really unhappy. I have had cars with those sort of problems before and it is beyond maddening, and those cars were not $130,000.
I haven't driven one, but I have no doubt it drives beautifully is extremely comfortable and well made. However...none of that makes up for maddening failures that keep requiring owners to bring the car back to the dealer. Thats inexcusable at this level, and having had cars like that before thats absolutely a deal killer for me. Having to f around with doorhandles that don't work and **** that won't engage and function like it should is just maddening...and those issues aren't straightforward for the dealer to diagnose in most situations which leads to long dealer visits and long periods off the road...just awful. Thats why I don't have a Range Rover. NO VEHICLE is worth putting up with that, no matter how fabulous it may be otherwise.
Hopefully they can get it together and the car will be as well sorted as the W222 was...at this point I absolutely would wait for 2022...
Design opinions are just that, opinions. If you had a bunch of these problems people are talking about though...you'd be really unhappy. I have had cars with those sort of problems before and it is beyond maddening, and those cars were not $130,000.
I haven't driven one, but I have no doubt it drives beautifully is extremely comfortable and well made. However...none of that makes up for maddening failures that keep requiring owners to bring the car back to the dealer. Thats inexcusable at this level, and having had cars like that before thats absolutely a deal killer for me. Having to f around with doorhandles that don't work and **** that won't engage and function like it should is just maddening...and those issues aren't straightforward for the dealer to diagnose in most situations which leads to long dealer visits and long periods off the road...just awful. Thats why I don't have a Range Rover. NO VEHICLE is worth putting up with that, no matter how fabulous it may be otherwise.
Hopefully they can get it together and the car will be as well sorted as the W222 was...at this point I absolutely would wait for 2022...
I won't get into the "discussion" about good car, bad car. However, I will make a point about the 2022s. My 2022 arrived in Brunswick about 1 1/2 months ago. They just released the 2021s about that time. I wonder if they learned enough in the time the 2021s were on the road to fix the potential problems with the early 2022s? I guess time will tell when they release my car. At least I know that I have all the standard equipment and all the options I ordered.
Last time I checked this thread was started by someone who had a W223 and the "another complaint" was about their experience with the car this forum is in reference to.
So you want forums to be an echo chamber where only positive experiences are allowed and anybody who has a negative experience should just be quiet? Because those forums exist.
I have been a part of a lot of car forums as I have had a lot of cars, and I have seen forums that are very real and forums that are as you describe you think they should be. Those forums are not helpful in any way. I don't need validation that my purchase choices were amazing. I need real information that can help me decide if buying a certain car is a good choice, and I need real information that can help me deal with issues that come up after I have the car...and on top of that I also want to talk to people who are enthusiastic.
MBWorld is very real, which I like. Not a lot of fanboys here calling people with real issues down like you have done which makes it a very good forum. I'm also a member on ClubLexus which is also a very good forum, but is over-moderated in an effort to stamp out any sort of conflict or disagreement.
My post that you responded to simply said, if I had a car with a bunch of problems I would find no comfort in the concept that its the "best driving car". I would rather have a slightly not the best but still excellent driving car without all the problems. These issues described here are inexcusable in a car that is supposed to be the "best or nothing"
I think it's important to remember that many people who post in online car forums have a car with an issue and that's what's caused them to write their post. That reality makes it a very unscientific representation of the overall picture to assume that because of these few posts, enough people overall are having problems to attack the car overall. Most people who have good experiences with their cars are far less likely to post about it online.
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