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Not keeping the 19s - I really don't like the look of those, despite their obviously superior comfort and stability.
I'm hoping that the swap from stock P-zeros to PS4S tires will help minimise the inevitable degradation in ride quality. I'm okay with sacrificing a little bit of comfort, for much improved exterior visuals.
And if that doesn't work out, and the ride degradation is just too drastic, I'm already psychologically preprared to order a set of 20s
.
I predict the ride quality degradation going from 19'' to 21'' is not just ''a little bit'' (subjectively speaking, of course) but significant enough that you will go to 20'' eventually.
Can you share what is needed for the front bumper retrofit besides the bumper cover and trim pieces. Any brackets/ wiring harness needed? Thank you
Sure, I'll ask about this when I visit the shop later today. For now, I've found a video for you, showing pretty much the entire installation process of the AMG front bumper
Subtitle is in Chinese only - maybe try a real-time screen translation tool, many new flagship phones now come with this function built-in.
I've skimmed through this video myself, and it certainly isn't the simple drop-in replacement procedure I imagined. Wirings and sensors need to be removed from the original bumper, rivets and brackets are required in a few places, and quite a bit of fist hammering is needed to properly align and secure some pieces. Certainly not something I'd attempt myself!
Interesting that the video kept mentioning [if you find it hard to align the pieces, enlist the help of your screwdriver] I wonder if this is the result of using counterfeit aftermarket components, or MB's poor QC standards? I feel that the later is somewhat plausible, because even in entirely factory optioned MBs, components in the interior cabin still make those high-pitched squeaks when you press them, even without much force.
I predict the ride quality degradation going from 19'' to 21'' is not just ''a little bit'' (subjectively speaking, of course) but significant enough that you will go to 20'' eventually.
Well, in the unfortunate scenario of me having to order another set of 20s, at least I could still find comfort in regaining my access to 10° rear steering
How's the situation regarding W223 rear steering in HK? Do they plan on charging you a subscription fee, for unlocking the additional 5.5°?
The subscription option already launched here in mainland China for EQS customers. About USD 750 a year, with a 3-month trial period. On top of the USD 2,000 one-off option fee at purchase, of course.
Well, in the unfortunate scenario of me having to order another set of 20s, at least I could still find comfort in regaining my access to 10° rear steering
How's the situation regarding W223 rear steering in HK? Do they plan on charging you a subscription fee, for unlocking the additional 5.5°?
The subscription option already launched here in mainland China for EQS customers. About USD 750 a year, with a 3-month trial period. On top of the USD 2,000 one-off option fee at purchase, of course.
No mentioning of this subscription fee at all (so far).
USD 750 per year is not really that much, when you look at this from another angle. I mean, for an owner of an S-Class (or EQS or any Mercedes), the issue is more psychological than financial, as US$ 2 per day barely puts a dent in the wallet. especially when one needs or enjoys this feature.
No mentioning of this subscription fee at all (so far).
USD 750 per year is not really that much, when you look at this from another angle. I mean, for an owner of an S-Class (or EQS or any Mercedes), the issue is more psychological than financial, as US$ 2 per day barely puts a dent in the wallet. especially when one needs or enjoys this feature.
Yeah, the fee itself is no big deal. But the feeling of being ripped-off is hard to swallow, when you know people in other parts of the world can option for the complete 10 degree without a subscription attached (e.g. canada), or at least are paying a much lower subscription fee than you (germany) for the same thing.
And then there is the issue of rear wheel steering being an off-line only feature, requiring no periodic access to MB server and thus costing MB no extra to maintain.
I'm very happy to pay for my upgraded navigation (USD 350 annual), the subscription model makes perfect sense for these continuous services, but artificially disabling off-line features just so they can charge for it, is a different matter in my book
Yeah, the fee itself is no big deal. But the feeling of being ripped-off is hard to swallow, when you know people in other parts of the world can option for the complete 10 degree without a subscription attached (e.g. canada), or at least are paying a much lower subscription fee than you (germany) for the same thing.
And then there is the issue of rear wheel steering being an off-line only feature, requiring no periodic access to MB server and thus costing MB no extra to maintain.
I'm very happy to pay for my upgraded navigation (USD 350 annual), the subscription model makes perfect sense for these continuous services, but artificially disabling off-line features just so they can charge for it, is a different matter in my book
The line between 'services' and 'already installed hardware' is getting blurred when we enter into this age of EVs.
IIRC, it all started with Tesla, which put the same capacity battery into all the models, unlocking the full capacity for the top model while locking (via software) for the lower end model.
So, the idea is basically building all the vehicles with the same hardware (lowering the cost of manufacturing) and use software to lock/unlock various features.
I think it is fair as long as it is well spelled out before your purchase the vehicle. It is just a supply-and-demand game to play, nothing special.
Fellow forum member Baloo588 reported better ride comfort and noise level after he swapped out to PS4S. He also reportedly already cracked a few thounsand miles on these tires with no issues. So I really have high hopes for these Michelins.
Ive got PS4S on 3 other cars, and they are fine, sporty tires. One thing that I noticed with my cars that I dont use so much, that those tires do not make flat spots after car sitting long in one place. So they must have stiff sides. I'm little concerned if comfort will be better or worse that on P-Zeros which are known as soft side tires (that is why a lot of folks report exploding after going into potholes).
Also based on EU sticker, P-zeros are more quiet, and to be honest - they are really quiet and I can only hear wind noise at high speeds.
One more thing - maybe in Europe we have a little different tires than in US or CHINA. Brand and model are the same, but maybe they are made different for EU market.
I think I will be switching to 20", because 21" are little to harsh for me. And W223 is all about smooth ride and this is most important for me. Ive got another set of winter wheels that are 20" and I will wait until winter, change to 20" and if it will be much better comfort I will buy 20" for summer.
Ive got PS4S on 3 other cars, and they are fine, sporty tires. One thing that I noticed with my cars that I dont use so much, that those tires do not make flat spots after car sitting long in one place. So they must have stiff sides. I'm little concerned if comfort will be better or worse that on P-Zeros which are known as soft side tires (that is why a lot of folks report exploding after going into potholes).
Also based on EU sticker, P-zeros are more quiet, and to be honest - they are really quiet and I can only hear wind noise at high speeds.
One more thing - maybe in Europe we have a little different tires than in US or CHINA. Brand and model are the same, but maybe they are made different for EU market.
I think I will be switching to 20", because 21" are little to harsh for me. And W223 is all about smooth ride and this is most important for me. Ive got another set of winter wheels that are 20" and I will wait until winter, change to 20" and if it will be much better comfort I will buy 20" for summer.
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Originally Posted by rw594
Yeah, the fee itself is no big deal. But the feeling of being ripped-off is hard to swallow, when you know people in other parts of the world can option for the complete 10 degree without a subscription attached (e.g. canada), or at least are paying a much lower subscription fee than you (germany) for the same thing.
And then there is the issue of rear wheel steering being an off-line only feature, requiring no periodic access to MB server and thus costing MB no extra to maintain.
I'm very happy to pay for my upgraded navigation (USD 350 annual), the subscription model makes perfect sense for these continuous services, but artificially disabling off-line features just so they can charge for it, is a different matter in my book
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Originally Posted by hyperion667
Am I understanding this correctly? MB wants to charge drivers to use a feature like all wheel steering, for extra money?
Yes. And, during a “think tank” session, one young staffer in Stuttgart suggested that they could also charge for “all wheel rotation,” explaining that whenever the car was in motion, MB would collect a fee. He was applauded by the others in the room, but in the end, the idea was deemed “too progressive” for 2023, but a “good bet for next year.”
Am I understanding this correctly? MB wants to charge drivers to use a feature like all wheel steering, for extra money?
Well, not like I want to defend MB or that it is justified or anything but MB Edit: sorry, I meant BMW is charging a monthly subscription for heated seats in South Korea I heard.
Last edited by W205C43PFL; Aug 5, 2022 at 11:21 AM.
Well, in the unfortunate scenario of me having to order another set of 20s, at least I could still find comfort in regaining my access to 10° rear steering
How's the situation regarding W223 rear steering in HK? Do they plan on charging you a subscription fee, for unlocking the additional 5.5°?
The subscription option already launched here in mainland China for EQS customers. About USD 750 a year, with a 3-month trial period. On top of the USD 2,000 one-off option fee at purchase, of course.
If you go for 20s and want the full 10 degree rear steering, make sure to not get rear tires wider then 255mm. That's the reason the rear steering is limited to 4.5 on 21s, it's becuase 21s only come with the 285 rear tires. In the US, the 20s on AMG Line vehicles are also 285mm rear tires.
Well, not like I want to defend MB or that it is justified or anything but MB is charging a monthly subscription for heated seats in South Korea I heard.
I'm not sure who started this crap, but also we know BMW has started charging for seat temps too right? I don't lease cars, and will never lease cars.....I will also not play their nickel and dime game either.
I'm not sure who started this crap, but also we know BMW has started charging for seat temps too right? I don't lease cars, and will never lease cars.....I will also not play their nickel and dime game either.
If you go for 20s and want the full 10 degree rear steering, make sure to not get rear tires wider then 255mm. That's the reason the rear steering is limited to 4.5 on 21s, it's becuase 21s only come with the 285 rear tires. In the US, the 20s on AMG Line vehicles are also 285mm rear tires.
Thank you Sir, I have long wondered why exactly the 21s were not compatible with the full 10 degree. MB doesn't do a very good job of explaining it officially.
Second day update: the car has now been stripped down completely, and some new parts have already been installed.
I see digital lights, AMG front bumpers (not sure why they decided to leave it hanging loose on one side?), AR HUD projector and the corresponding new dashboard, and 4D Burmester subwoofer in the trunk.
Project is expected to complete this Sunday.
That giant paper box in the back, by the way, is a new windscreen. Apparently the windscreen for AR HUD is different from the standard HUD one. And the standard HUD one is different to the non-HUD one.
So basically, in order to retrofit AR enabled HUD, I had to get an entirely new dashboard + a new windscreen + a new driver's display. The whole combination costs USD 13,000.
I was quoted CNY 22'000 - so around USD 3200, for a brand new OE steering wheel assembly, including the built-in airbag.
sorry to say but you spent over $1000 USD too much for that steering wheel and airbag combination.
Those wheels realistically cost $2000-2200 usd tops, anything more is the company trying to make a buck
sorry to say but you spent over $1000 USD too much for that steering wheel and airbag combination.
Those wheels realistically cost $2000-2200 usd tops, anything more is the company trying to make a buck
I was quoted $1900 for steering wheel and airbag by another shop, so yeah, the actual cost of the wheel is obviously going to be way below $2000.
I was aware that they were charging me a premium, and I honestly don't mind. Considering the risks involved in such large-scale reassembly operations, I'm willing to pay extra for expertise, and this shop was the best I could find, in terms of project experience with W223.
Indeed this is a big gamble regarding the final fitting of all parts. I mean, the scale of disassembly and re-assembly is so extensive that just a tiny carelessness will lead to a lot of headaches. Not necessarily anything mechanical or electrical, just a slightly loose cable could generate some squeaky noise which can drive anyone crazy!
BTW, what kind of warranty does the shop give for their work? It would be a pain in the axx if you have to drive down again from Hangzhou to Guangzhou for them just to fix a pesty noise due to a loose part somewhere. Maybe you just hang around in Guangzhou for a day or two to drive extensively on local roads and expressway to check for fitness and new functions?
I agree that if this shop is the top shop to do this kind of retrofitting, I would not mind paying for a premium in order to minimize the chance of having something go wrong, especially the scale of the job is big.
It is kind of amazing that these technicans can handle this kind of conversion within such a short period for the W223. Mind you that the W223 has not been released for many years. 2 years at most. They probably once worked at some MB dealership for years?
Indeed this is a big gamble regarding the final fitting of all parts. I mean, the scale of disassembly and re-assembly is so extensive that just a tiny carelessness will lead to a lot of headaches. Not necessarily anything mechanical or electrical, just a slightly loose cable could generate some squeaky noise which can drive anyone crazy!
BTW, what kind of warranty does the shop give for their work? It would be a pain in the axx if you have to drive down again from Hangzhou to Guangzhou for them just to fix a pesty noise due to a loose part somewhere. Maybe you just hang around in Guangzhou for a day or two to drive extensively on local roads and expressway to check for fitness and new functions?
I agree that if this shop is the top shop to do this kind of retrofitting, I would not mind paying for a premium in order to minimize the chance of having something go wrong, especially the scale of the job is big.
It is kind of amazing that these technicans can handle this kind of conversion within such a short period for the W223. Mind you that the W223 has not been released for many years. 2 years at most. They probably once worked at some MB dealership for years?
Yeah, when I initially got in touch with the shop owner about my project, I made it VERY clear to him, that I will not tolerate anything in the cabin making the tinniest amount of noise, as a result of this project. I half-jokingly told him that if anything should go wrong, I will park the car right in front of his shop door 24/7, and set up large banners detailing my issues, exposing his failure for all future customers to see
They are pretty invested in their social media prescence too - their Bilibili (which is basically Chinese Youtube) project videos have been really good for their business, so I'm certain I can do some serious damage to their reputation and future customer acquisition, by attacking them in the comment section of their project videos, if they should fail me.
So yeah, there's no denying the risks involved in this project, but I feel I've taken enough precautions, and the likelihood of failure seems manageable.
Regarding warranty: the shop has customers all over China (again, result of their Bilibili video marketing), and they regularly send out technicians on trip across the continent, conducting smaller projects on customer's homesteads, for clients who don't wish to travel. So I can expect quick fixes at my doorstep, no need for a second journey.
Not sure about the background of their technicians, but local MB dealerships do seem like the ideal employee pool for them to recruit from : ) I felt this topic kinda infringed on trade secrets, so I didn't bother asking
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
I wonder if this is the result of using counterfeit aftermarket components, or MB's poor QC standards? I feel that the later is somewhat plausible, because even in entirely factory optioned MBs, components in the interior cabin still make those high-pitched squeaks when you press them, even without much force.
