S vs A8 vs 7 series
12-25-2022, 02:41 PM
#51
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Cool story brah.
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12-25-2022, 04:17 PM
#52
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2022 S580, Range Rover full sized, retired (Ferraris, lamborghini, Bentley, RR, Porsche etc, etc...)
This thread really encapsulates well the type of persona Mercedes wants to capture with the S class.
This thread started off with a thorough review of the major flagships. It started off, fairly well, and then completely went off the deep end. The turning point was when it didn't "sit" well with some S class owners that the A8 is, comparatively, more exclusive.
In the grand scheme of things, to your point, who cares? But this thread is quite telling. The S class owner has to "prove" a point that their car is "superior". Another thread on MBW talks about the 223 looking too "bland" because it's now not show-y off enough like in the past.
I think this just says a thousand words.
No, a S63 AMG is not compared to an S8. There is no Audi comparable to the S63 AMG. Any reasonable person would compare a 55 TFSI to a S450, and a 60 TFSI to a S550 (or whatever the numbers are now). Engine size to engine size, and price to price. A S63 is in a league of its own, especially since prior models had a V12.
But hey, maybe the latter is a point of opinion. Would any of you turn down a S63 AMG if it was the same price as a 550/580? (I forget what the numbers are these days). Of course not.
That said, I'm out. Carry on with the whole tape measure competing contest. The rest of us prefer to be in rarer cars that fly under the radar because we don't want to show off. If anything, this thread reinforced my decision to not buy a W223, as it came down between the D5 and waiting for the soon to be launched 223 at the end of the day and I was literally tossing a coin deciding between the two.
This thread started off with a thorough review of the major flagships. It started off, fairly well, and then completely went off the deep end. The turning point was when it didn't "sit" well with some S class owners that the A8 is, comparatively, more exclusive.
In the grand scheme of things, to your point, who cares? But this thread is quite telling. The S class owner has to "prove" a point that their car is "superior". Another thread on MBW talks about the 223 looking too "bland" because it's now not show-y off enough like in the past.
I think this just says a thousand words.
No, a S63 AMG is not compared to an S8. There is no Audi comparable to the S63 AMG. Any reasonable person would compare a 55 TFSI to a S450, and a 60 TFSI to a S550 (or whatever the numbers are now). Engine size to engine size, and price to price. A S63 is in a league of its own, especially since prior models had a V12.
But hey, maybe the latter is a point of opinion. Would any of you turn down a S63 AMG if it was the same price as a 550/580? (I forget what the numbers are these days). Of course not.
That said, I'm out. Carry on with the whole tape measure competing contest. The rest of us prefer to be in rarer cars that fly under the radar because we don't want to show off. If anything, this thread reinforced my decision to not buy a W223, as it came down between the D5 and waiting for the soon to be launched 223 at the end of the day and I was literally tossing a coin deciding between the two.
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12-25-2022, 09:00 PM
#55
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The Audi A8 60 TFSI has a V8. If you're going to start attempting to spew facts, maybe start by getting them right? Sure, they recently got rid of this model, but also dropped the pricing of the S8 substantially to make up for that. And yes, people don't buy A8s like they don't buy Rolls Royces (not comparing the two in quality but I'm not the one who brought up this idea of limited production ! = exclusivity, though that literally is the definition of exclusivity so the argument is lost on me (and is wrong)). Anyways...
Seems like fanboyism is super strong in these neck of the woods and hasn't changed Then again that makes sense given the reasons why people buy S classes.
Seems like fanboyism is super strong in these neck of the woods and hasn't changed
Then again that makes sense given the reasons why people buy S classes.I actually find the S Class section refreshingly devoid of fanboys. There is a lot of real honest feedback in here.
And as was said, the A8 60 no longer exists in the US. In order to get a V8 you have to get the S8. That doesn't work for me as I prefer the regular A8 trim inside and out. They also have done away with many of the nice options for the A8, no more interior trim packages with alcantara, no more B&O audio, etc.
I LOVE the A8 60, if the lease rates had been reasonable I might have gotten one, but the V6 is underpowered and the S8 is okay option S580 price, and I would prefer an S580. Audi needed to do a lot more with the refresh.
Last edited by SW20S; 12-25-2022 at 09:25 PM.
12-26-2022, 11:38 AM
#57
The 2012 A8L I had before the 2022 S580 did have a much better steering feel and the chassis was more button down and sportier. It felt more tighter overall and the V8 4.2l in that car returned a nice 28 plus mpg on the highway and I was able to get 580 miles on a tank. However as it got older it felt more heavier in the front. The Mercedes is more comfortable and plush despite the tradeoff in the steering feel and body roll. It does turn much better with the rear wheel steering and overall it feels more nimble. Too bad Audi dropped the regular V8 on the A8l and only has V6 for the A8 and V8 for the S8. The A8s since 2005 have been great for me. My 2006 A8L D2 had 200k miles. The 2012 had 250k miles and was running great.
12-26-2022, 01:51 PM
#58
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While I greatly dislike what BMW did with the exterior styling on the new 7 I do give them credit for bellying up to the plate and taking their swings. Audi on the other hand appears to have given up the game altogether; based on their actions I get the impression the corporate goal is to allow it to lapse into a product that is uncompetitive in every way so that they then have a reason to kill it. I don't know why they would give up the category, but it feels to me like they've done just that, and by design. Could be wrong but it's the sense I get.
I liked the current iteration (A8) when it came out, but even when new the design in and out was relatively conservative. Not necessarily a bad thing in this class but in my brief look when shopping this summer it felt dated and that would bother me during ownership. If I had been shopping back then it may have had a chance but not now. Why...
Personally I like the design of the S Class; outside the drivers display being unceremoniously plonked on the dash and the lack of physical buttons for common functions I think the interior is a home run. I like the center screen and the way it swoops up; looks modern and attractive without being obnoxious. If they'd have utilized the wasted space under the center screen for some physical buttons and integrated the driver's display into the dash you could color me completely satisfied with the interior styling. I find the exterior just moderately attractive but for whatever reason that seems exactly what it should be in my mind. If it was too flashy it wouldn't fit the cars driving demeanor, too plain simply isn't luxurious. I think they walked a fine line there and came out ok. I wouldn't have minded a little more pizzazz but too little is better than too much for this car.
If that makes me a mindless fanboy who has eschewed a better car for a badge... Guilty.
I liked the current iteration (A8) when it came out, but even when new the design in and out was relatively conservative. Not necessarily a bad thing in this class but in my brief look when shopping this summer it felt dated and that would bother me during ownership. If I had been shopping back then it may have had a chance but not now. Why...
Personally I like the design of the S Class; outside the drivers display being unceremoniously plonked on the dash and the lack of physical buttons for common functions I think the interior is a home run. I like the center screen and the way it swoops up; looks modern and attractive without being obnoxious. If they'd have utilized the wasted space under the center screen for some physical buttons and integrated the driver's display into the dash you could color me completely satisfied with the interior styling. I find the exterior just moderately attractive but for whatever reason that seems exactly what it should be in my mind. If it was too flashy it wouldn't fit the cars driving demeanor, too plain simply isn't luxurious. I think they walked a fine line there and came out ok. I wouldn't have minded a little more pizzazz but too little is better than too much for this car.
If that makes me a mindless fanboy who has eschewed a better car for a badge... Guilty.
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12-26-2022, 02:12 PM
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You see a little of its FWD roots in its profile, the front wheels are a little closer to the front door than in a true RWD vehicle, but honestly you would never know when you drive it. The A8 is an excellent car.
Anybody who tells you that they bought a car like this and don't care what anybody else thinks is lying lol. The image that it projects is a part of why someone buys a flagship executive sedan, or any other luxury vehicle or product. There is absolutely a degree of desire for prestige.
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12-26-2022, 03:16 PM
#60
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I agree, said as much to you not so long ago, it's hard to set aside the badge factor. On the other hand all these brands are considered higher end; it isn't like you picked the cheap seats no matter which one you set your butt in. I feel it's completely fair to compare them straight up.
You're also missing the dog licking factor. There are people here with real money, when you've got money some of the things you do, you do because you can. I'm not one of those, and I'm not wealthy, but even at my income almost any car I'm likely to buy is probably going to be generally considered higher end. This because I like nice things and I can. If I had more money I'd buy nicer things. Nice things are good with or without a brand. IMO the S Class is a nicer thing, with or without the brand.
To go back to your first point I think the second best car in this class is the G90. I wonder myself if I'd buy next time it if it became the best in class? It's that badge...
You're also missing the dog licking factor. There are people here with real money, when you've got money some of the things you do, you do because you can. I'm not one of those, and I'm not wealthy, but even at my income almost any car I'm likely to buy is probably going to be generally considered higher end. This because I like nice things and I can. If I had more money I'd buy nicer things. Nice things are good with or without a brand. IMO the S Class is a nicer thing, with or without the brand.
To go back to your first point I think the second best car in this class is the G90. I wonder myself if I'd buy next time it if it became the best in class? It's that badge...
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12-26-2022, 03:49 PM
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You're also missing the dog licking factor. There are people here with real money, when you've got money some of the things you do, you do because you can. I'm not one of those, and I'm not wealthy, but even at my income almost any car I'm likely to buy is probably going to be generally considered higher end. This because I like nice things and I can. If I had more money I'd buy nicer things. Nice things are good with or without a brand. IMO the S Class is a nicer thing, with or without the brand.
To go back to your first point I think the second best car in this class is the G90. I wonder myself if I'd buy next time it if it became the best in class? It's that badge...
12-26-2022, 09:17 PM
#63
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This comes from the Audi front axle arrangement where the engine is nearly entirely forward of the front axle. Have a look at the ZF8HP in current model Audis and look in the engine bay of a current model Audi or Porsche. The rearmost spark plugs in Audis and Porsches (not 718 or 911) are positioned surprisingly forward in the engine bay, unlike MB where the rearmost plugs are close to being inline with the bottom edge of the windshield.
12-27-2022, 10:14 AM
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This comes from the Audi front axle arrangement where the engine is nearly entirely forward of the front axle. Have a look at the ZF8HP in current model Audis and look in the engine bay of a current model Audi or Porsche. The rearmost spark plugs in Audis and Porsches (not 718 or 911) are positioned surprisingly forward in the engine bay, unlike MB where the rearmost plugs are close to being inline with the bottom edge of the windshield.
12-27-2022, 12:56 PM
#65
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I was in one this summer when shopping; it drives fine. Different feel than this one but it's good for what it is; no one is really horsing these things down backroads or taking them out on track days.
The big problem with the A8 is it needs to be updated in general; I drove this car (S Class) first and while I wasn't fond of the lack of buttons and some other tidbits the A8 felt like it was previous gen.
I don't want to give the wrong impression here; I don't feel it's a bad car; it's just fallen behind. I keep coming back to it but it needs a refresh. A lesser issue is the power. That's a sweetheart of an engine and they get the most out of it but it's not competitive in this class where you expect an abundance of power. If you still had the 8 all is forgiven; a buyer can choose and for some competent is enough. But... No.
As it is; I can see why they're not selling, the car needs some love.
The big problem with the A8 is it needs to be updated in general; I drove this car (S Class) first and while I wasn't fond of the lack of buttons and some other tidbits the A8 felt like it was previous gen.
I don't want to give the wrong impression here; I don't feel it's a bad car; it's just fallen behind. I keep coming back to it but it needs a refresh. A lesser issue is the power. That's a sweetheart of an engine and they get the most out of it but it's not competitive in this class where you expect an abundance of power. If you still had the 8 all is forgiven; a buyer can choose and for some competent is enough. But... No.
As it is; I can see why they're not selling, the car needs some love.
12-27-2022, 03:44 PM
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I agree 100%
12-27-2022, 04:04 PM
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Audis feel very different and the styling on them is subjective. They have a heavy snout because of the engine placement. Its not good or bad its just preference. My 2016 Bentley had that same "snouty" feel. Very front end heavy bias.
I find the S580 much less snouty, more rear bias and somewhat fun to drive. The car can be thrown around a little bit... primarily due to the rear axle steering. Its not a sports sedan but does a decent job at trying to imitate one. Its purpose is to be a luxury barge and I love it!!
I find the S580 much less snouty, more rear bias and somewhat fun to drive. The car can be thrown around a little bit... primarily due to the rear axle steering. Its not a sports sedan but does a decent job at trying to imitate one. Its purpose is to be a luxury barge and I love it!!
12-27-2022, 04:46 PM
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01-07-2023, 11:57 AM
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Big lol at the fake "engine" sound on the i7.
01-07-2023, 01:11 PM
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01-08-2023, 09:20 AM
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I may go look at the 7 series today or tomorrow. The electronic noises don’t bother me. The EQS has this too
My local MB dealership doesn’t advertise the MSRP on their inventory any more. I think they still have ADM. I find this annoying and I don’t mind looking at out of town dealers and BMW. If I get to compare the MB and S, I’ll share my thoughts.
My local MB dealership doesn’t advertise the MSRP on their inventory any more. I think they still have ADM. I find this annoying and I don’t mind looking at out of town dealers and BMW. If I get to compare the MB and S, I’ll share my thoughts.
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chassis (01-08-2023)
01-08-2023, 10:34 AM
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Yeah as long as they can be turned off, then I have no issue with options. If they forced me to listen to that I'd feel differently...
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