superangrypenguin

Agreed. Seat comfort on the S class is the worst of the bunch.

Animal skin alternative? F right off.

crabman

You need to put this car in individual and switch the steering to sport to get rid of the horrid stock steering feel. Do that and it's still over boosted but at least you can detect a tenuous connection to the wheels. In comfort mode it compares best to a 70s era Chrysler product; it's just missing the screech at lock.

The leather thing is part of Thomas's schtick; you get used to it.

js_cls

Three and a half hours! Anyone have the sparknotes? Thomas definitely goes in depth, but I typically skip through his videos and only watch portions such as the exterior/interior overviews as he can go on for quite some time.

As for the seats, I find them great, much more comfortable than the W222's which I thought could be more plush. I do think Audi has the better massage function though. As for steering, its an S-Class, I'm not expecting anything sporty, this is a boaty luxury car, no shame in that. I really do not like any of the other choices in this class of car, the 7er is beyond ugly, the Genesis has a big a** grill and a V6-only, ditto on the Lexus, and the A8 just looks fat, although of the other cars the second best, but still not my preference. If it weren't for the S, I'd honestly just go straight to the new Range Rover.

Rockland

Disagree. Seat comfort is 100% subjective and depends entirely upon the individual’s body type, height, weight etc.

The S Class seats are BY FAR the best for me. I am 6’5”.

And as much as I love many things about the 7 Series, the leg room and the pitch of the 7 series seat falls a little short for me when compared to the S Class.

Bubba1

Is it just me or is the B pillar location in the 7 series a bit odd? I find getting in and out of them on the drivers side to be a bit awkward. I keep hitting the B pillar.

Rockland

I can’t speak of the new 7 because I haven’t spent 4 years getting into and out of the driver’s seat on a daily basis. However, 100% agree the B pillar in the prior 7 series was awful for me. Getting into and out of the vehicle was a little cumbersome with the B pillar. Always hit it. Everything else about the car I loved except for the B pillar and the fact that I really needed about 2 inches more legroom between seat and gas pedal.

SW20S

I always have felt the same way

The A8 to me is no longer an option because they did away with the V8, the V6 is underpowered and many of the nice finish options are gone. You have to go to the S8 to get that stuff, and then you're in S Class price territory. I loved the A8 60 I drove in 2020.

js_cls

Agreed, not a fan of the V6, and I don't like how bulbous the styling is in general. I think the previous D4 generation A8 was a prettier and overall sleeker car, although like most Audi's, the interior has aged poorly. Another issue is they sell so little of these cars (a little over 2,000 a year) that you pretty much have to custom order because so many are spec'd poorly and they have sub-par materials standard.

MBS63AMG

I went by my Audi dealership to set up my first service appointment. On the showroom floor was an S8 just like mine but had the executive seating package in the rear (a $5000 option). I was so overwhelmed when I saw that the price has dropped $12,000 in the 2023 despite having even more equipment!!! I was not happy. I guess the electric vehicle madness is driving the prices of gas burners down. Also, it seems Audi is really pushing the electric cars because they are offering rental cars from just one day to up to a year!

superangrypenguin

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-.../#post25772282

Agreed

SW20S

holy crap! I will have to check that out...

As for the S Class seats, I think the W223's seats are great, love the seats in my 223 too. Glad to hear the 7's seats are improved because they were the biggest deciding factor against the G12 750 for me.

emilner

Now that you mention it -YES! On my last 2 7's I always sat in the seat and slid back to the backrest. To get out was a pull forward, rotate and exit. It was annoying. Plus the B pillar was always at my shoulder (I'm 6'4").

SW20S

I'm 6' and noticed all the same things

carmarster

months ago i did test drive for S, A8, 7 series and Panamera, it turns out BMW 7 is worst handling of 4, while mercedes S has the best handling.
BMW 5 series has slightly better handling than mercedes E class, but 7 series loses battle due to steering is too soft compared to S, A8 and Panamera, you just dont have any fun when driving 7 series.

DABRONX

You think the 223 handles better than the 2022 s7 or 7 series? Not sure I agree there as although the S handles great for its size the S7 is an aggressive drivers car and would say the 7 series depending on options is right at its heals. Actually almost every review states the opposite. The S is definitely better in many areas but not sure I can agree with the handling. Panamera?

M5 vs E63S? E63s is a monster but again the M5 is quite possibly the best 4dr car made with dual purpose in mind.

To each his own.

crabman

No way this car comes even close to the Panamera in handling. Not in the same ballpark, not even playing the same game. I came out of a Panamera and I'm now driving this one so I'm saying that with more than a test drive behind the thought. I don't hold that against this car; the Panamera isn't nearly as comfy no matter how you spec it. In my mind the Panamera does not really compete with this car, the A8, or the 7 series; it's something people like me might cross-shop but not as direct competitors.

emilner

There is no way an S class will handle better than a Panamara. That is laughable in every regard.

W205C43PFL

Never driven a Panamera myself but I was surprised when it was mentioned here that the W223 handles better than one, I mean Porsche is known for its sport heritage which make sense that it should be a driver's car.

The S-Class is meant to be pure luxury other than Maybach at least it should be the most comfortable and luxurious MB which is a completely opposite of stiff and sporty drive, MB itself was always meant to be purely about luxury other than AMG models, which should be what it is reserved for, until MB started to want a younger image, attracting younger buyers.

If we are stretching it, even the E-Class could had been the more sportier one, the C-Class should be the most sportiest even in non-AMG version. Although since they market it as the mini S-Class I guess they also want it to be more on the luxury side. I think in that case, it would make sense and the formula works.

The S-Class has no reason to be about good handling, it is meant to be a chauffeur car after all. Although from my understanding, most W223 owners drive it themselves in reality here. The rear axle steering in the S-Class might had helped the handling?

I was disappointed to hear the 7-series has bad handling since it is meant to be one of the "Ultimate Driving Machine"s but given it is an S-Class competitor, maybe it also make sense, was the new 7-series better in terms of handling?

crabman

They just concentrate on different factors. The softest suspension setting in the Panamera is stiffer than sport plus in this car. It has an 8 speed dual clutch, it can be smooth when slogging in traffic but shifts significantly harder/faster when you turn up the volume. The lightest possible steering setting in the Panamera is still more direct than the massively overboosted steering here. You sit much lower in seats with far more bolstering and it's harder to get in and out because of those two things. It's much faster, not just in the usual metrics but out on the road, at any speed, even a relatively low model like the 4S will give you more. In terms of feel the much stereotyped "shrinking around you" really happens. You feel like you know precisely where your wheels are and equally can put them exactly where you want. You just don't get anything like that here.

Again, I'm not dissing this car. The Panamera is not really a luxury car despite the ability to get everything covered in leather and it doesn't come close to competing with this one in that regard. I'd say a closer competitor would be something like the M5 if looking at BMW. It's not that the Panny isn't comfortable; it's a big sedan with those inherint characteristics. It's not uncivilized, not hardcore, and no one would mistake it for a sports car. It just leans toward the sport side of the sport sedan equation, whereas i wouldn't call this car a sports sedan in the first place.

Wolfman

Audi seems to be discounting all cars hard. A friend of ours is a long-time A7 driver and the dealer offered him a 2022 Audi Etron GT for 20% off, pre-negotiation.

Wolfman

One has to remember that the S-Class, A8 and 7 Series have always been designed as long-distance business cruisers, so their design focuses on interior comfort (seats and suspension) quietness and steady steering. For that reason the S-Class featured the recirculating ball steering well into the nineties instead of a rack & pinion despite their disadvantages.
The Panamera was never designed for that purpose and in some way feels like a car in search of a customer group. There is a reason whey these cars have sold poorly with heavy discounts and high depreciation, despite their qualities. The S8 also is a very small niche car given its firmer suspension setup.
Good handling, as defined as direct and sporty handling is not a key benefit in the segment.

emilner

While I agree with what you said his comment was made because of a laughable comment that the S is a better handling vehicle than the Panamara.

crabman

I agree with what you're saying Wolf, and yeah, I'm aware. I think you missed the context. In any event I'll be surprised if the Panny soldiers on much further; electrification and all that.

js_cls

The Panamera will soldier on, albeit as a heavy facelift rather than a new vehicle from the ground up.

crabman

Yeah, I'm over there. This is the second round on the 971 coming up and widely thought to be the last although Porsche has been walking back their timeline on the electric side. The way things are going it doesn't look good to me but we'll see what happens.