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These are really great cars, and I will definitely consider one. But, I can tell you from years of driving the Lexus LS, none of those cars will ever be an S Class. The S Class is "THE car", and anybody who has one of these would take an S Class if it werent for the cost. This is the only time I have ever had a car that I can say there isn't a car I would rather have if it weren't for money.
So it comes down to, do you want to drive the car you really want or do you want to drive a car that tries to emulate that car for a lesser cost? Thats not meant to be a snobby comment, money is money now that I have had an S Class I might be perfectly happy to go back to a "pretend S Class for much less cost"
Even with the MY COTY the low price of the G90 is 90% of why it won the award. If it were $125,000 they never would have even considered it. Its only exceptional in that it offers so much for so much less.
If your life goes the way mine and most people I know did you're just going to slowly build more and more discretionary income as you age. Going backwards normally isn't good and most don't want to unless it's something like buying a smaller house when the kids are out. Put them together and when the next one comes along you not only don't go back, you check another box or two on this or some other car you're feeling the love for because that's just how it works. I'm saying this in general, I'm aware there are outliers and you may be one. But as I consider those I know very few went backwards unless they had some misfortune befall them.
I don't know that I personally would buy the G90 because the brand just feels like less but there is no question in my mind I never buy it unless I absolutely feel like it's a better car. Some percentage of this car isn't going to work for me.
These are really great cars, and I will definitely consider one. But, I can tell you from years of driving the Lexus LS, none of those cars will ever be an S Class. The S Class is "THE car", and anybody who has one of these would take an S Class if it werent for the cost. This is the only time I have ever had a car that I can say there isn't a car I would rather have if it weren't for money.
So it comes down to, do you want to drive the car you really want or do you want to drive a car that tries to emulate that car for a lesser cost? Thats not meant to be a snobby comment, money is money now that I have had an S Class I might be perfectly happy to go back to a "pretend S Class for much less cost"
Even with the MY COTY the low price of the G90 is 90% of why it won the award. If it were $125,000 they never would have even considered it. Its only exceptional in that it offers so much for so much less.
My experience with Lexus is limited to the very first generation of LS400 (1990) and a subsequent GS300 some ten years ago.
Since you have a long history of driving LS, would you mind to share why you switched from LS to the S-Class?
If you have shared before in another thread (perhaps in the W222 forum?), please give me the link.
My experience with Lexus is limited to the very first generation of LS400 (1990) and a subsequent GS300 some ten years ago.
Since you have a long history of driving LS, would you mind to share why you switched from LS to the S-Class?
If you have shared before in another thread (perhaps in the W222 forum?), please give me the link.
For me it was purely because Lexus made the LS in to a totally different kind of car. I had a 98 LS400, a 2004 LS430, a 2015 LS460 and a 2017 LS460L. The LS500 is MUCH sportier, tight to the point of feeling cramped inside despite its longer length, the car rides much firmer and isn't as quiet, the V8 is replaced with a TTV6 that is nowhere near as refined. It doesn't feel like a big flagship car. So, that left me with the perfect opportunity to get the S Class I always lusted after. Had they replaced the LS460 with a new S Class style car (like a G90) I almost certainly would have stayed with Lexus.
Lexus has unfortunately abandoned the upper end of their lineup, they aren't building any proper RWD premium products anymore.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
I feel that Lexus felt that BMW was their main competition. They started coming out with all these truly ridiculous “F Sport” vehicles, that were going to run circles around the BMW M offerings. Good luck! I had 8, brand new, air suspension equipped LS sedans between 1993 and 2011. They were fabulous cars. Then, Lexus completely changed their formula for the LS and gave us the current LS500 which, in my opinion, is an absolutely horrible car. It looks ridiculous, it has lost the ride quality and comfort that was a Lexus trademark and is no longer a contender in the luxury sedan market. Again, in my opinion, the new G90 compares favorably with the Audi A8, BMW 7 and yes, the MB S Class. The current LS isn’t in the same league.
I don't think the front is ugly at all, I mean...this is ugly:
The G90 isn't as pretty as the W223 but I wouldn't call it ugly.
That too, but the right color can act semi satisfactorily as a concealer (women speak) for that grill. the rest of that body does an immaculate imitation of a wannabe Rolls Royce. No concealer is going to work with the Genesis.
That too, but the right color can act semi satisfactorily as a concealer (women speak) for that grill. the rest of that body does an immaculate imitation of a wannabe Rolls Royce. No concealer is going to work with the Genesis.
Unpopular opinion...I think Rolls Royces are pretty ugly too. I like a long low looking car, a Rolls Royce looks like some sort of ridiculous tank.
Elegance, like most aspects of a car are subject to individual taste. To me, a Rolls-Royce is meant to look imposing. The traditional grille and Spirit of Ecstasy hood ornament impart a bit of elegance. The modern take on a classic British interior is also elegant, to me. I do agree that BMW is looking to bring a certain (Rolls-esque) stature to the 7.
To keep on-point, I thing the new G90 stands out on the exterior with its own shape in the segment. The roofline is appealing to me.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
At least Genesis is trying to develop a design language for their vehicles, fine tuning it along the way. BMW had a great design language and has fairly recently had cars that I thought were absolutely beautiful, like this 7 Series from a few years ago. When I look at this car, I see BMW, I see elegance and I see something that truly might be “the ultimate driving machine.” When I look at the current 7–try as I may to appreciate it—I see a design completely void of beauty, totally shunning aerodynamics, disgustingly in-your-face brash and vomiting all over anything even remotely elegant. It’s all about China and if this new 7 is a hit there, it will validate all my thoughts about that place.
At least Genesis is trying to develop a design language for their vehicles, fine tuning it along the way. BMW had a great design language and has fairly recently had cars that I thought were absolutely beautiful, like this 7 Series from a few years ago. When I look at this car, I see BMW, I see elegance and I see something that truly might be “the ultimate driving machine.” When I look at the current 7–try as I may to appreciate it—I see a design completely void of beauty, totally shunning aerodynamics, disgustingly in-your-face brash and vomiting all over anything even remotely elegant. It’s all about China and if this new 7 is a hit there, it will validate all my thoughts about that place.
The problem is that BMW wasn't able to sell that car if their life dependent on it. One could literally get a 30% discount on these without too much effort. So what is a decent looking, forgettable design worth? I will wager that the new, more controversial looking 7 series will sell better than the pre-LCI G11/12 shown here. The bucktooth BMW 4 series sales are definitely strong and better than prior years when 4 out of 5 cars sold were not SUV's.
People want a statement car these days.
The Genesis might be a fine car but I think that this will sell as poorly here as their predecessors. Too me this car has improved but is still just less for less...
The problem with that car was that it didn't excel at anything; no matter what you were looking for there was something else that did it better.
I think you build a 7 with that styling, but updated, add the tech and quality from the new car, you sell more than what is arriving on lots now. Maybe not in China, but you would here.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Wolfman
The problem is that BMW wasn't able to sell that car if their life dependent on it. One could literally get a 30% discount on these without too much effort. So what is a decent looking, forgettable design worth? I will wager that the new, more controversial looking 7 series will sell better than the pre-LCI G11/12 shown here. The bucktooth BMW 4 series sales are definitely strong and better than prior years when 4 out of 5 cars sold were not SUV's.
People want a statement car these days.
The Genesis might be a fine car but I think that this will sell as poorly here as their predecessors. Too me this car has improved but is still just less for less...
I am only talking aesthetics here, exterior design. The new 7 may be a fine car to drive, but to me, it looks just horrible. I drive by a BMW dealer every day and they have new 7’s sitting out front. They look monstrous and just so out of place. I truly believe that these cars will not sell well in the US and that they will be heavily discounted in the near future.
As for the Genesis being “ less for less,” I agreed with you when you said that about the previous G90 models, but not this time. This new top line G90 comes standard with most everything the competitors offer and in some cases—such as electrically closing doors—even more. And, once the stand alone Genesis dealerships start popping up across the country, I look forward to watching them raising the “customer experience” bar as Lexus did so many years ago. Lexus was a game changer with the LS sedans. I believe Genesis is following in their footsteps.
I am only talking aesthetics here, exterior design. The new 7 may be a fine car to drive, but to me, it looks just horrible. I drive by a BMW dealer every day and they have new 7’s sitting out front. They look monstrous and just so out of place. I truly believe that these cars will not sell well in the US and that they will be heavily discounted in the near future.
As for the Genesis being “ less for less,” I agreed with you when you said that about the previous G90 models, but not this time. This new top line G90 comes standard with most everything the competitors offer and in some cases—such as electrically closing doors—even more. And, once the stand alone Genesis dealerships start popping up across the country, I look forward to watching them raising the “customer experience” bar as Lexus did so many years ago. Lexus was a game changer with the LS sedans. I believe Genesis is following in their footsteps.
I understood the point of aesthetics but this is one of personal opinion. There are many variables that make a car "better" but higher sales usually translate into buyers liking those models more and that presumably includes the looks. People tastes just change and controversial isn't a negative anymore.
With the less for less comment, I still feel the same. Back in the early Lexus days, Lexus buyers could look smart buying an equal car for a whole lot less which in some ways better, like the insulation (the LS400 was not a capable competitor in Germany, so I refer to the US market). This isn't the case with Genesis IMO. It isn't better at anything and copies options (including the electric doors) and does a great job packaging. Certainly they have spent the money hiring designers from other brands but it takes a lot time to develop a brand cache which is very important in this segment.
I do wish Genesis the best; as others stated already, more competition benefits us all.
With the less for less comment, I still feel the same. Back in the early Lexus days, Lexus buyers could look smart buying an equal car for a whole lot less which in some ways better, like the insulation (the LS400 was not a capable competitor in Germany, so I refer to the US market). This isn't the case with Genesis IMO. It isn't better at anything and copies options (including the electric doors) and does a great job packaging. Certainly they have spent the money hiring designers from other brands but it takes a lot time to develop a brand cache which is very important in this segment.
I do wish Genesis the best; as others stated already, more competition benefits us all.
I don't really agree with this. Reading reviews there is a possibility that the G90 may be quieter inside than the W223 (and by extension, everything else), from a interior build perspective its far superior to almost all W223s since very few of them come with the exclusive napa interior, and quite frankly even that doesn't seem up to the same level). So, it is superior in some ways.
I don't really agree with this. Reading reviews there is a possibility that the G90 may be quieter inside than the W223 (and by extension, everything else), from a interior build perspective its far superior to almost all W223s since very few of them come with the exclusive napa interior, and quite frankly even that doesn't seem up to the same level). So, it is superior in some ways.
You somehow equate material selection with build quality. By that measure, BMW 7 series would have been superior to the W222 for many years
You thought MB OEM replacement parts prices were expensive. Wait until you need an Genesis OEM only replacement part for that G90 in a few years. That's if you can even get it.
The S-Class is very popular in China, king of cheap aftermarket replacement parts. The G90, is probably almost non-existent in China. Ultimately one of the main reasons we didn't go for the G90 at this point in time. I do agree that Genesis has their sites set on MB though.
Car & Driver has it in this order for the ranking in this class...
1. S-Class
2. A8
3. 7 series
4. S8
5. G90
6. LS500
I'm not sure about the exclusive leather thing, and I really mean I'm not sure. I saw quite a few cars with it when I was shopping; for sure more without but I wouldn't say it was rare in this area at the time I was buying. What I am sure of is that it ups the ante quite a bit and it's all over; I wouldn't say transformative but I do think most would call it money well spent when looking at one with and one without.
The 7ndidn't get better for me in person; have yet to see the new G90 so I'm reserving judgement. The sense I get from reviews is that they liked the car but with the qualification of it's relative value in the class.
What about the reliability, nobody talks about it because there is no history, it is nice to have a very well optioned car for less but when you start throwing money on it after the warranty expires you just simply forget about all of these nice cheap options....and service is another issue.
Having had ( and still have ) BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Volvo, Lexus, Infiniti, Porsche, etc. there is nothing like Lexus service experience so far, at least in my case....
Like reading this thread comparing Premium Sedans...makes me feel like I'm back in Prep School absorbing knowledge from the Headmaster about the Classics.
Mind can't maintain focus however in the Southwest where gotta drive 250-miles East for tasty fried catfish and 230-miles North for decent Bahn Mi sandwiches. Miss my Vietnamese coworkers from Westminster, CA. Time for a 3-hour road trip soon especially if UGA beats TCU tomorrow night at SoFi...
How does the 2019 Jaguar XJL Collection compare to these current land yachts (or W222) with its Supercharged V8 and controversial Tata Design?
Old roommate now in DC by Navy Yards bought one new for $68K a few years ago...nearly $30K off MSRP. He drives a 2023 M850i convertible now.
01-04-2023, 07:06 PM
