Streamliner

Say WHAT???

js_cls

I've always loved Jaguars despite never having owned them, and having frankly only driven a few, I've always appreciated them from a stylistic standpoint. The last generation XF was gorgeous, and I've always loved the XJ's design and drive, even the controversial X351 with its floating roof and almost fastback design. The XJ has always more so competed with the 7er than the S as it was (like the 7er use to be) the driver's choice of the class.

crabman

I had an F-Type R some cars ago. I liked it; comfortable in the daily, fun when you want to have fun. Some downsides to it: You're not getting much in the back; probably less than most imagine when looking at the car from the outside. It was loud enough it occasionally set off car alarms in an underground garage. You get a lot more kids wanting to race than you do in a 911, roughly similar to being in a Corvette in that regard. Quality is down a little bit from the higher end German stuff. One interesting thing about it neither good or bad: People talk about some cars being chick magnets, haven't really experienced that, mine have mostly been man magnets or not a magnet at all. This was the exception; the F-Type, you're going to get a few of the ladies swooning.

SW20S

I think most consumers will equate material quality to build quality, and as a W222 owner I believe the build quality of the BMW 7 Series is absolutely superior. Materials are better, the interior build is more solid, the paint finish is better, exterior is trimmed out better, etc.

Drone_S213

^^^
Roommate had Jags since droptop '95 XJS inline 6. Had a XF SC with a cantankerous Minsa Exhaust and drove his 2007 XKR droptop until it died recently just after moving into his new Condo last year. He had to sell the XJL Collection to Carmax for $66K because Condo had limited underground parking and chose the droptop as his sole retirement daily driver. He had good luck with the Jags since parts were available on Rock Auto and had a Jamaican Independent Mechanic with a day job at BMW dealer where he picked up his new M850i. I never had the opportunity to drive his Collection which was limited to 300 in its last year of production...

If I was in the market for a premium land yacht would lease this 2023 G90 and keep a beater as a spare. Have two friends in SoCal and Florida who've had issues with Genesis over the lack of availability of parts during warranty. At least the AMG Wagon was back on the road after ABQ dealer obtained the correct replacement parts after 2-months and GLC300 brand new loaner car blues. MBUSA also compensated me $5K for my inconvenience and missed planned road trip to the East Coast.

MBS63AMG

The thing about the new BMW 7 series front end that I don't like is the separation of the two headlight clusters. I wish it had been one solid fixture. The rest of the entire car looks fine to me, inside and out.

bishop64

I read that there is strict regulation regarding the functions of the main headlight, thus manufacturers do not have much room to play around.
Now that the upper DRL is separated from the lower main headlight, I imagine there will be a lot of fiddling around in the future.

Wolfman

So then the S-Class is the bottom of the ladder by your definition? Interesting logic.
MB usually uses base trim levels at list while others throw upgrades into the base price to make them sellable or add bragging rights. Our W222 was definitely of much better quality than the G12 7 Series at the time, including the quality of the trim and nappa leather so I disagree here. But we had to add the exclusive Nappa options to give it the level of luxury the car deserved.
Love BMW interiors though and our M8 was definitely on par/above MB but that's a BMW individual interior option. BMW is definitely nicer on the inside on the SUV side of things... As to paint finish, BMW paint sucks. Very delicate and subject to easy chipping. MB paints are much harder.

crabman

To me they both appear similar in quality, a little better here or there, but similar. Both are dependent upon the car and the trim level in terms of eye appeal.

I'd say in this regard that the S-Class needs much more personalized buying opportunities in the form of more option choices. Except in one thing; the exclusive leather should be the entry point. It isn't terrible without it but I'd liken it to the Panamera without the leather upgrade; underwhelming at the price point.

If anything, in my mind it may be a little worse here because luxury is one of this car's primary missions. Leather seating, nasty piano black trim, and fake leather surfaces are what I expect at half the price. IMO the upgrade should be the Manufaktor and the exclusive should be the default interior. I get why they do it but I don't have to like it.

SW20S

I would say when it comes to paint finish and exterior build, the S Class (W222 at least anyways) is the bottom of the segment honestly. its not that its bad, but my LS460L was finished much nicer, the S Class has way more orange peel, panel gaps aren't anywhere near as consistent, trim doesn't fit as well, the metal edges aren't all hidden with trim and cladding like they were on the Lexus. Paint on the Lexus was an order of magnitude better. In my extensive searching before I bought the car I found the 7 Series and the A8 also significantly better in those areas.

I can't speak to chipping as I have not had a BMW, but when it comes to the appearance of the paint when new the BMW is way better. I do a full clear bra on all my cars so chipping isn't an issue for me.

As for the interior, fit and build is more solid in the 7, there aren't any creaks or give when pushing on any of the materials and trim where you get that in the S Class.

Obviously I prefer the S Class overall because thats what I got, but I have to call a spade a spade.

tx170754

"LS460L was finished much nicer, the S Class has way more orange peel, panel gaps aren't anywhere near as consistent, trim doesn't fit as well, the metal edges aren't all hidden with trim and cladding like they were on the Lexus. Paint on the Lexus was an order of magnitude better"
I have two LS 460, a '15 with 12,000 miles and a '16 with 30, 000 miles sitting in my garage along with a 2018 S560 with 13,000 miles and you're absolutely right ! Besides that I have a couple of rattles in the MB that should not be there....My, now departed 2007, CL600 was way different....

crabman

Lexus quality isn't just a successful ad campaign.

Wolfman

Personally the drive dynamics of a Lexus LS460 were not my cup of tea and the tech was outdated long before they stopped building the car... I am happy for those that enjoyed the car.

MBNUT1

Which is why I suspect that some folks end up with the S Class despite their perception of deficiencies in other areas.

SW20S

This is all 100% accurate, but that doesn't change anything we said about paint quality, build quality, etc. The S Class has a better chassis, more refined drivetrain, much better power, much better tech, better road noise isolation (but not wind noise), better driver comfort overall, better handling without a ride penalty, but the Lexus fit and finish is better. I suspect the G90 will be superior to the S Class in that area as well.

Wolfman

I cannot speak to the Lexus paint; have never looked at it and frankly it wouldn’t be a factor in a purchase decision.

Paint hardness on the other hand is relevant to me as I wouldn’t consider a bra due to the lines (unless full panel ppf).

As for the fit and finish, I would have to visit a Lexus dealer again. I have never considered a Lexus superior in anything other than reliability…

SW20S

Paint finish to me on a luxury vehicle is really important. I think you just haven't spent any time with Lexus vehicles. I had 7 Lexus vehicles including 4 LSs. Mercedes is better in a lot of ways, but Lexus is better in many ways as well. Fit and finish, paint quality, some details Lexus is better at, ML audio absolutely blows away the Burmester.

Would I go back to Lexus? Not currently because they don't make a car that is comparable to the S Class. If they did would I go back? Probably. So, like I said this G90 may very well be superior in some ways.

QuadBenz

Thank you for sharing your honest and unbiased thoughts and opinions. I'm glad you can call it like it is, even though it's your own personal vehicle. Props.

And I do agree, our S-Classes have had areas of the interior that you could press on and hear creaks. BMW is much more solid in this regard. Agree about the paint finish and overall finishings being better with Lexus than the S-Class, but I think this is only an LS thing. I don't think they sand and polish the other models like they do the LS at the factory.

SW20S

No problem, objectivity is important!

The paint finish is much better on the LS than the other models, yes. Lexus hand sands the paint on the LS (and LX and LC), but not on the lesser models. I have had the ES, GS and LS and the paint was much better on the LS, although its still nice on the cheaper cars and the other exterior build and trim differences still exist.

Without a doubt though the paint on my 4 LSs are the best paint finishes I've ever had on a car

crabman

Mrs Crab has pretty much been through the lineup as she searches for the middle bear and while I seldom get in her cars I can say for sure they're the least problematic brand we've had. She also likes the dealership experience; non-threatening, no mansplaining, so woman friendly. Also a girl that will make you a cappacino while you wait for your loaner, a spacious room for you to wait in, etc.The cars aren't my cup of tea but she likes the overall ownership experience and that shouldn't be discounted with Lexus; that part of the product is finding some happy owners.

I bring it up because they (Genesis) could use the upgrade; the Hyundai dealerships are not so special around here. I know they're working on it but that doesn't do much for you today.

SW20S

I will say my dealer experience with Mercedes is the equal of my experience with Lexus, maybe even a little better. Costs a lot more lol

tx170754

I live between two Mercedes dealerships, one is way bellow any expectations the other one is ok, the Lexus one is above both of them....price wise is like you said, the "not so good one" is extremely expensive, the "good" one is so and so but the Lexus one is well bellow these....

Streamliner

No way!

With MB, if you have an issue that did not “throw a code,” at the dealership, a big, tall, blonde guy in a white shop coat comes out to talk to you. He says “Vee fine nossing vrong mit dis very fine Medcedes, YOU mus be doing somsing vrong!” If you question this, even a tad, the blonde guy nods to the two big guys who have appeared out of nowhere and are now standing behind you. They are wearing full length, black, leather trench coats. The blonde guy says “take him, take him” and you are disappeared into the MBUSA never-never land, never to be heard from again.

With Lexus, if you complain about a sound that is about as loud as a butterfly flapping it’s wings, the service advisor will bow to you and say “We are so very sorry to have disappointed you. Your salesman will be committing Hara Kiri shortly. We are sending your car by 747 airfreight, back to Japan, where it will be completely disassembled and each part will be blueprinted. In the meantime, here are the keys to a brand new LS for you to drive, until your car is ready. Is there anything else we can do for you?” He bows three more times and invites you to have a cappuccino, hand made by a Geisha Girl in the guest lounge and she asks if there is ANYTHING else she can do for you.

I realize that I have gone overboard here, but honestly, my service experiences with Lexus and MB have been somewhat proportional to my pageant noted above.

crabman

Lol, I think my point was only that right now things are lacking on the dealer front with Genesis.

bishop64

...and invites you to have the full 5-step Chanoyu, served together with seasonal wagashi....
This is from the gourmet point of perspective.😋