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I had two flavors of F-Pace, the S the first time and I decided to sample the SVR before I moved on. They're both good cars with great packaging, but there are downsides: The seats aren't the most comfortable, cheap bits all over, the stereo is crap, tech in general is trailing edge. The Levante must be sat in to be (un)appreciated, I was in one on a windy day and I could feel the breeze coming through the door seal hitting my elbow. There is all kinds of bad with that car; perhaps the worst choice of those mentioned here that I've sampled.
2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
I guess from the rear it has sorta Porsche-like curves. Personally if I owned it I'd park it with the hood open all the time. That's the only part of the vehicle I find attractive.
I guess from the rear it has sorta Porsche-like curves. Personally if I owned it I'd park it with the hood open all the time. That's the only part of the vehicle I find attractive.
Ha! You can save your money and just find this part of the vehicle and use it as a piece of art in your house. It will definitely cost you less than an entire car, considering that you like only this part.
2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
Oh and I amost forgot the brand-spankin'-new Macan. Porsche executives appear to be blissfully unaware that they need to rethink their EV plans like Mercedes:
We’re overwhelmed by orders coming in for the electric Macan
VAG has already walked their EV talk back and plan to continue producing (some) ICE vehicles across their brands for the foreseeable future.
They were BTW, always aware they would have to admit they couldn't get there, because they knew it going in. They all did; the goal was unattainable within that timeframe, and this is only a secret to people who get their news and information from facebook. My opinion of the corporate boy wonders is low but I would never say they're all stupid.
2022 S580, Range Rover full sized, retired (Ferraris, lamborghini, Bentley, RR, Porsche etc, etc...)
Originally Posted by streborx
Dialing all the way back to the OP, what's your motivation for moving to an SUV?
It mainly comes down to comfort. Ingress/egress, I’m getting a little creaky. Also I like the sight line of being elevated.
I find even in my S580, being surrounded by other SUV’s Pickups I almost feel claustrophobic. Boxed in.
I don’t really haul around a lot of stuff. Extra storage etc is irrelevant. My kids are all grown up and outside the house so that isn’t a consideration either.
It used to be that with SUV’s you felt like you were driving a fridge. No real handling. Now with technology they drive much better and in some cases close to sports sedans.
They will never drive like a sedan or a sports car but I think they have come pretty close. So as much as I love the way my S class drives I’m willing to compromise to gain the comfort aspects (as described above) of a super SUV.
It mainly comes down to comfort. Ingress/egress, I’m getting a little creaky. Also I like the sight line of being elevated.
I find even in my S580, being surrounded by other SUV’s Pickups I almost feel claustrophobic. Boxed in.
I don’t really haul around a lot of stuff. Extra storage etc is irrelevant. My kids are all grown up and outside the house so that isn’t a consideration either.
It used to be that with SUV’s you felt like you were driving a fridge. No real handling. Now with technology they drive much better and in some cases close to sports sedans.
They will never drive like a sedan or a sports car but I think they have come pretty close. So as much as I love the way my S class drives I’m willing to compromise to gain the comfort aspects (as described above) of a super SUV.
Just about all the SUVs built by manufacturers who also make pickup trucks use the same chassis for both, and most are equally as large and as difficult to get in and out of. I had a Lexus LX which is a Toyota Tundra derivative -- it was a very comfy ride and had a commanding view, but was not too hard to enter and exit (unlike my MB G550). I traded the LX 2 years ago for a BMW X7 M50i (not a pickup truck mutation), which is also comfy, has a commanding view, but seems a bit easier to enter and exit (it's about 3" less tall and the seat seems a bit lower than the LX). And the M50i's 4.4L 523hp TT V8 is a blast to drive, although many folks say that the smaller IL6 engine (M40i version) is all you really need. I considered the Alpina XB7 version (same engine tuned to 630 hp), but was concerned about its depreciation (and that I might hurt myself). In 3 - 4 years, the XB7 would be worth about the same as a brand new X7 M60i (newly re-labeled), and I would rather have new than used, as I thought everyone else would. So I went with the M50i version. I like it every bit as much as the LX, except for the engine which makes the X7 the clear winner. I have no experience with, or interest in, any of the SUV exotics -- my zip code disqualifies me anyway.
I drove the the X5M yesterday; that thing rides pretty darn stiff even in the softest setting, I think most people would be put off by it. The performance is outstanding; if that were your only criteria it's a sure thing for a short list. As a daily driver, I wouldn't do it and I think most people would generally agree. A few weeks before that I was in the X5M 60 or whatever the step down is called with the V8, that appears to be the sweet spot to me for those wanting the roundel: Still quite quick, handles well for what it is, and has an actual softer mode when you're dialed down for the business of going about your day. I've recently been in the SQ8 which gave me a similar feeling; some fun to be had but it works in the grind as well. Both are quite comfy and feature rich although less fancy feeling than the S class.
I still feel like the Cayenne gets you the best sweet spot at the moment, although at a substantially higher cost than the Audi or BMW. Whether it's worth getting into it for half again as much to get a well-equipped Porsche is a tough call because the other two are not far behind.
2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
Originally Posted by crabman
They were BTW, always aware they would have to admit they couldn't get there, because they knew it going in. They all did; the goal was unattainable within that timeframe, and this is only a secret to people who get their news and information from facebook. My opinion of the corporate boy wonders is low but I would never say they're all stupid.
Only seems to be a problem in the USA. Maybe they knew they'd have to admit failure from the start becuase they knew they were too stoopid to pull it off. Other countries and other car companies are still selling EVs like hotcakes. But I guess keeping the fatherland, motherland and homeland safe and secure is more important than free-market economics. Otherwsie Americans would probably be buying BYDs instead of Teslas like everyone else.
Anywhosies, I saw your comment about the F-Pace SVR on another thread and have to disagree with you on that one too. Maybe your FPace was pre-facelift because the new interior is quite nice and not cheap at all. They've also greatly improved the infotainment system. It does wireless carplay and android auto now. And the best part is I paid less than half of what Bubba is going to pay for his Urus so I really don't care about the depreciation. I'll get my money's worth out of it.
If someone were to ask about a value proposition in that size and price range I'd consider the F-Pace a good candidate for a short list and recommend it in that way. Bubba doesn't appear to be asking that question: Unless I'm off base he's looking for something further up market and more recent if you consider his comments about what he wants. I was trying to answer what I think he might want rather than what works for me. I wasn't putting the Jag down; I've had a couple and wasn't denigrating it. Whether the value is there to pay more is up to him; value is relative, not an absolute.
I tend to think your call out of the Macan is well made. If he's still in the market when the Macan Turbo hits that might be the moustrap he's looking for; hard to say. It's on my short list in any event.
As to EVs in general: the goal wasn't hard, the time factor made it impossible: It's not my opinion and I don't say this because I'm anti-EV; I'm neither for, nor against. I say it because there are not enough materials available to attain that scale in that time frame. The plant needed to produce the finished materials doesn't exist. Those in planning but not yet started, combined with those currently those being built out, and those already in production, would still not be enough plant to meet that goal. Going all the way to the ground we don't have the mining capacity needed, in some cases we don't even know where to dig for those raw materials. These are solvable problems, but it takes time to develop the capacity and supporting infrastructure. There was no getting around that and it remains a known problem.
Other countries and other car companies are still selling EVs like hotcakes.
Except for Germany, the largest EV market in Europe, which industry forecasters expected will see a YOY decline in EV sales this year. Ditto California, forecast calls for lower YOY EV sales.
2022 S580, Range Rover full sized, retired (Ferraris, lamborghini, Bentley, RR, Porsche etc, etc...)
I like the Macan, but it’s a bit too choppy for me. Not enough wheelbase. I also like the Cayenne, nice blend of luxury and sportiness.
What I don’t like about the Porsche SUV’s in general is the seats. They seem to be “hard” not soft like what we are used to in the S class. Additionally, even the “Comfort” seats in the Cayenne have the flaps on the side of the seats that hinder ingress egress. They literally go up your but and as far as I know can’t be adjusted. Ouch!! Especially for the Mrs. This for me is pretty well a deal killer. Comfort for me is priority number uno!!
Roger. I like the Macan; had several of them as loaners. It will be interesting to see how they position the EV but I suspect it's going to be done the Porsche way, and you know how they do it.
The seats are fair firm in the BMW too, my butt remembers them just as I found them now but who knows after being out of the brand for so many cars. They are in any event significantly firmer than this car; that's for sure.
To go back to the Macan those 14 ways have a fairly low side bolster for a vehicle with sporting intent; cant think of one off the top of my head with less on anything with serious pep to it.
2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
Originally Posted by chassis
Except for Germany, the largest EV market in Europe, which industry forecasters expected will see a YOY decline in EV sales this year. Ditto California, forecast calls for lower YOY EV sales.
You've been watching too much fake news on TV. A slowdown is not a decline and if the slowdown is just as bad for ICE vehicles then it really has nothing to do with EVs.
In December, new passenger car registrations in Germany amounted to 241,883, which is a significant 23% drop compared to a year ago... Despite the recent weaker months, all-electric cars noted an increase in 2023 by 11% year-over-year to 524,219 and 18.4% share (compared to 17.7% a year ago).
Anywho, I think my time with my Mercedes SUV is coming to an end. I'll either trade it for an electric Porsche Macan or a Lotus Eletre sometime this year. Then I won't be hanging around here any more (don't cry).
2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
Yeah Urus is so popular these days that a white one might actually not draw too much attention. Those Skittles colors are like a neon sign that says "pull me over and write me an expensive ticket". Personally though I'm pretty sure I've bought my last gas powered vehicle, my 2024 F-Pace SVR. Everything from now on will be electric for me. I just needed something old school that I could wrench on myself as a security blanket until I get used to all this electrification stuff I guess.
I'm having the time of my life Bubba. The X5M is just plain fun, and it's not getting old. As you said it's not for you but some of those other choices, I think you're going to like one of them.
Just the other day, I took a load of groceries/supplies down to my boat. It was a seats down, need to move stuff trip. Then it was sport mode back to the house, no Mrs Crab onboard. After that, off to the grocery store, this time with Mrs Crab. No M2, just slogging in traffic.
Where I'm headed is all of those things happened in the same car. Big square boxes. Hooligan at the wheel. Relaxed driving. It's all one click away. The 580 does not have that bandwidth, I enjoyed driving it, but it's not as much car.
I'm harboring a suspicion you may have similar thoughts when you move into the next thing.
I'm having the time of my life Bubba. The X5M is just plain fun, and it's not getting old. As you said it's not for you but some of those other choices, I think you're going to like one of them.
Just the other day, I took a load of groceries/supplies down to my boat. It was a seats down, need to move stuff trip. Then it was sport mode back to the house, no Mrs Crab onboard. After that, off to the grocery store, this time with Mrs Crab. No M2, just slogging in traffic.
Where I'm headed is all of those things happened in the same car. Big square boxes. Hooligan at the wheel. Relaxed driving. It's all one click away. The 580 does not have that bandwidth, I enjoyed driving it, but it's not as much car.
I'm harboring a suspicion you may have similar thoughts when you move into the next thing.
The use case described above is well-executed by a Cayenne in S or higher trims.
The X5M is awesome and a hoot to drive. I would seriously consider getting it but the rear-seat legroom is too small for me. I’ve been eyeballing RS6 and RSQ8s. I’m still leaning for another S class next but there’s just something about fast station wagers.
Originally Posted by crabman
I'm having the time of my life Bubba. The X5M is just plain fun, and it's not getting old. As you said it's not for you but some of those other choices, I think you're going to like one of them.
Just the other day, I took a load of groceries/supplies down to my boat. It was a seats down, need to move stuff trip. Then it was sport mode back to the house, no Mrs Crab onboard. After that, off to the grocery store, this time with Mrs Crab. No M2, just slogging in traffic.
Where I'm headed is all of those things happened in the same car. Big square boxes. Hooligan at the wheel. Relaxed driving. It's all one click away. The 580 does not have that bandwidth, I enjoyed driving it, but it's not as much car.
I'm harboring a suspicion you may have similar thoughts when you move into the next thing.
02-27-2024, 01:32 PM
The horror!
