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How does that even happen? I have no insight into the banking industry, or whoever underwrites these leases.
When you have a car like this with poor residuals, they depreciate like a rock…you have to bolster them up with incentives and subverted money factors and inflated residuals to get the lease payments to be viable. Mercedes leases have never been as good as BMW, but they’ve been within $200-300 between the 7 and the S. Right now they are like Audi, just terrible. No incentives, no subverted money factor, low residuals making for a terrible lease.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by chassis
Well......
Not to be too picky, but there are two transmissions in the i7. Two single-speed transmissions, one at each axle.
There are even drain and fill plugs for you to DIY the oil change!
Thank you for that. I believe my single motor car will have only one. I guess I’ll be looking forward to no gear changes, in my one speed transmission.
When you have a car like this with poor residuals, they depreciate like a rock…you have to bolster them up with incentives and subverted money factors and inflated residuals to get the lease payments to be viable. Mercedes leases have never been as good as BMW, but they’ve been within $200-300 between the 7 and the S. Right now they are like Audi, just terrible. No incentives, no subverted money factor, low residuals making for a terrible lease.
You just casually dropped some truth bombs over here
When you have a car like this with poor residuals, they depreciate like a rock…you have to bolster them up with incentives and subverted money factors and inflated residuals to get the lease payments to be viable. Mercedes leases have never been as good as BMW, but they’ve been within $200-300 between the 7 and the S. Right now they are like Audi, just terrible. No incentives, no subverted money factor, low residuals making for a terrible lease.
Well, let's not quite how this works. Residuals are set to reflect anticipated value. But BMW and Mercedes take a different approach.
MF is only subvented to boost sales. For the longest time, the W223 MF was not subvented but the residual was set realistically after getting burned on the pre-FL W222 models was were set too optimistic. Then later the facelifted W222 were very heavily subvented MF's to unload these cars. Trunk money is independent of payment type with MB and every model has different MF factors.
BMW on the other hand typically uses standard MF across all models (although now with some exceptions) and sets artificially high residuals to create low, attractive leases. That increase sales but make no mistake, the cars ACV has never been close to their residuals. For the sake of volume, BMWFS takes a big hit at auction, something that MBFS isn't willing to do.
Well, let's not quite how this works. Residuals are set to reflect anticipated value. But BMW and Mercedes take a different approach.
MF is only subvented to boost sales. For the longest time, the W223 MF was not subvented but the residual was set realistically after getting burned on the pre-FL W222 models was were set too optimistic. Then later the facelifted W222 were very heavily subvented MF's to unload these cars. Trunk money is independent of payment type with MB and every model has different MF factors.
BMW on the other hand typically uses standard MF across all models (although now with some exceptions) and sets artificially high residuals to create low, attractive leases. That increase sales but make no mistake, the cars ACV has never been close to their residuals. For the sake of volume, BMWFS takes a big hit at auction because they have inflated residuals, something that MBFS isn't willing to do.
Yeah, its exactly how it works lol. The only thing I know more about than what I do for a profession is leasing cars.
Most every model of every car has different MFs, thats not unique to MB. MF varies depending on option packages too for many manufacturers. BMW uses a standard MF but they bolster them on certain models with lease cash, as does MB and everybody else. MBs typically have more realistic residuals but better MFs and better cash incentives. Its all different ways of accomplishing the same thing, making a car have a competitive and attractive lease payment..
BMW takes a big hit at auction, but they gain in sales, its all relative. MBs always cost more to lease, and they should I think overall MB has the better brand and product, its just right now that delta is HUGE, which is why you are seeing MB dealers sitting on inventory BMW is moving. My MB salesman said this month (February) is the worst month at MB they have seen in a very long time, and its because MB dropped all the incentives this month and the lease deals are terrible. A 36 month lease on a S580e right now is coming in HIGHER than a 60 month finance payment. Insane. He literally told me he wouldnt even bother running me numbers until March.
An S580 is not worth $1,000 a month more than a 760 lol. $300 a month? Sure.
This guy is a very sharp lease negotiator/broker. He dropped a video on this very subject:
Yeah, its exactly how it works lol. The only thing I know more about than what I do for a profession is leasing cars.
Most every model of every car has different MFs, thats not unique to MB. MF varies depending on option packages too for many manufacturers. BMW uses a standard MF but they bolster them on certain models with lease cash, as does MB and everybody else. MBs typically have more realistic residuals but better MFs and better cash incentives. Its all different ways of accomplishing the same thing, making a car have a competitive and attractive lease payment..
BMW takes a big hit at auction, but they gain in sales, its all relative. MBs always cost more to lease, and they should I think overall MB has the better brand and product, its just right now that delta is HUGE, which is why you are seeing MB dealers sitting on inventory BMW is moving. My MB salesman said this month (February) is the worst month at MB they have seen in a very long time, and its because MB dropped all the incentives this month and the lease deals are terrible. A 36 month lease on a S580e right now is coming in HIGHER than a 60 month finance payment. Insane. He literally told me he wouldnt even bother running me numbers until March.
An S580 is not worth $1,000 a month more than a 760 lol. $300 a month? Sure.
This guy is a very sharp lease negotiator/broker. He dropped a video on this very subject:
One thing in In his video that has me questioning his credibility is his claim that Mercedes is sitting on a lot of 2023 EQS' because they leased terribly and BMW has no iX's left over because they leased incredibly well...
The EQS sedan and SUV have ridiculous lease deals available and have had them available for a long time. Wasn't it a year ago or more that there were headlines about being able to lease an EQS Sedan for $500-$600 a month?
One thing in In his video that has me questioning his credibility is his claim that Mercedes is sitting on a lot of 2023 EQS' because they leased terribly and BMW has no iX's left over because they leased incredibly well...
The EQS sedan and SUV have ridiculous lease deals available and have had them available for a long time. Wasn't it a year ago or more that there were headlines about being able to lease an EQS Sedan for $500-$600 a month?
They had a period where they leased really well, but that was just a period...they no longer lease like that, and the iX has consistently also leased incredibly well, i7 leases really well.
What this guy is saying and what my MB guy is saying and what I am seeing currently shopping to lease an S Class, 7 Series etc all line up.
@Streamliner I’ve been following your automotive journey for years and would highly suggest your dealer contact Maria Martine and BMW Individual to add these two options that will transform the vehicle.
1. Option code 2VS, which is active comfort drive with road preview. It using the cameras to actively set up the suspension for road conditions. Additionally it includes active anti roll bars, which insure flat Corning while disconnecting in a straight line increasing wheel articulating and separating each corner of the vehicle.
2. option code 356, which is climate comfort laminated glass which greatly reduces the noise level and solar transmission to the interior of the car.
I had both these options on my 7 and they transformed the car. They’re not available on the normal ordering guide, you need to request from your client advisor who will put the request into the VDC manager and Maria at BMW Individual.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by CSLA
@Streamliner I’ve been following your automotive journey for years and would highly suggest your dealer contact Maria Martine and BMW Individual to add these two options that will transform the vehicle.
1. Option code 2VS, which is active comfort drive with road preview. It using the cameras to actively set up the suspension for road conditions. Additionally it includes active anti roll bars, which insure flat Corning while disconnecting in a straight line increasing wheel articulating and separating each corner of the vehicle.
2. option code 356, which is climate comfort laminated glass which greatly reduces the noise level and solar transmission to the interior of the car.
I had both these options on my 7 and they transformed the car. They’re not available on the normal ordering guide, you need to request from your client advisor who will put the request into the VDC manager and Maria at BMW Individual.
Cheers!
I know about the glass, but have never heard about the 2VS active comfort drive with road preview. Thank you SO MUCH for telling me about this. Exactly what year & model car do you have? Approximately how much did this option cost? This is something that sounds very interesting to me. Thanks again!
When you have a car like this with poor residuals, they depreciate like a rock…you have to bolster them up with incentives and subverted money factors and inflated residuals to get the lease payments to be viable. Mercedes leases have never been as good as BMW, but they’ve been within $200-300 between the 7 and the S. Right now they are like Audi, just terrible. No incentives, no subverted money factor, low residuals making for a terrible lease.
Could you translate what you're saying into English, or at least check my translation:
Basically, buying these cars is a completely stupid option for anyone with smart money. You will literally **** $50k out the door immediately on depreciation, so you need to give "subverted money factors" which basically hide this $50k immediate loss, "inflated residuals" where the manufacturer needs to eat some of the depreciation costs by buying back the vehicle at higher-than-market rate? "incentives" idk, happy ending? Free coffee during service?
@Streamliner I saw your post on Bimmerpost. It’s newly available on the 50 as they just worked through the chips shortage for the active suspension (previously only orderable on the M70). I know the 7 series product manager personally and have confirmed with him as I’m planning on ordering an i7 50 myself to replace my EQS450 pinnacle, which has been having unresolvable software issues with the drivers assistance features.
My two stipulations to ordering a 50 is to be able to equip it with double pane glass and the active suspension, both which my G12 740i had in the past.
What you need to understand with BMW versus Mercedes is that your experience is highly variable based on the way the vehicle is equipped and just because you have a flagship product does not mean the car will be highly insulated or providing the baseline experience you’re used to in a Mercedes. I’ve never experienced as a good a ride quality or level of sound insulation as my EQS450 with the foam integrated in the chassis and acoustic comfort package. I can assure you the 356 option on the BMW has no reflections or lamination issues with the glass like on your E38 7 series and works as advertised.
Your dealer will try tell you these features are not available in order to simplify the process, but you have to push back and have them reach out to Wes Beard at the VDC and Maria Martine who directs BMW Individual for BMW USA.
There’s a whole binder you can choose from besides exterior and interior colors ie lambs wool mats, leather sun visors, etc etc.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by CSLA
@Streamliner I saw your post on Bimmerpost. It’s newly available on the 50 as they just worked through the chips shortage for the active suspension (previously only orderable on the M70). I know the 7 series product manager personally and have confirmed with him as I’m planning on ordering an i7 50 myself to replace my EQS450 pinnacle, which has been having unresolvable software issues with the drivers assistance features.
My two stipulations to ordering a 50 is to be able to equip it with double pane glass and the active suspension, both which my G12 740i had in the past.
What you need to understand with BMW versus Mercedes is that your experience is highly variable based on the way the vehicle is equipped and just because you have a flagship product does not mean the car will be highly insulated or providing the baseline experience you’re used to in a Mercedes. I’ve never experienced as a good a ride quality or level of sound insulation as my EQS450 with the foam integrated in the chassis and acoustic comfort package. I can assure you the 356 option on the BMW has no reflections or lamination issues with the glass like on your E38 7 series and works as advertised.
Your dealer will try tell you these features are not available in order to simplify the process, but you have to push back and have them reach out to Wes Beard at the VDC and Maria Martine who directs BMW Individual for BMW USA.
There’s a whole binder you can choose from besides exterior and interior colors ie lambs wool mats, leather sun visors, etc etc.
Based on your earlier post, I phoned the “Genius” desk at BMW USA this morning. Honestly, I know very little about current BMW vehicles & options, but when it comes to the I7, I believe I know more than the “Genius” I spoke to. He was absolutely useless.
What I would like, is an I7 eDrive50 with the 356 glass and either the full Autobahn Pkg or at least the Active Comfort Drive, both of which my dealer tells me are unavailable to order. How would you suggest I proceed? Thanks very much!
I just spoke with the product manager 2VS active comfort drive is not currently available on the i7 50, he says it’s a price and weight issue since it’s the entry level model. I told him that it’s silly and people just want things the way they want it! I’d almost suggest switching to a 60 to get the right suspension.
He mentioned 356 is currently orderable on the 50 as a priority 1 option and can be added to a build today. You need to have your dealer fill out a special order form and send it to Wes Beard at the VDC to forward to Individual in order to add to your car. This is a manual process, I believe they can download the form on CenterNet (Like Netstar).
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by CSLA
I just spoke with the product manager 2VS active comfort drive is not currently available on the i7 50, he says it’s a price and weight issue since it’s the entry level model. I told him that it’s silly and people just want things the way they want it! I’d almost suggest switching to a 60 to get the right suspension.
He mentioned 356 is currently orderable on the 50 as a priority 1 option and can be added to a build today. You need to have your dealer fill out a special order form and send it to Wes Beard at the VDC to forward to Individual in order to add to your car. This is a manual process, I believe they can download the form on CenterNet (Like Netstar).
Well, I'll have to think about this. Thanks SO much for your help.
Could you translate what you're saying into English, or at least check my translation:
Basically, buying these cars is a completely stupid option for anyone with smart money. You will literally **** $50k out the door immediately on depreciation, so you need to give "subverted money factors" which basically hide this $50k immediate loss, "inflated residuals" where the manufacturer needs to eat some of the depreciation costs by buying back the vehicle at higher-than-market rate? "incentives" idk, happy ending? Free coffee during service?
Personally, I think buying one of these cars new is silly as long as there is a lease deal out there that offers you incentives. It protects you from the downside risk of depreciation, and if you are surprised and its worth more than the residual you can just buy it. Not gonna happen with a BMW because their residuals are inflated, could happen with an MB.
The Money Factor is the interest rate of the lease. Offering a below market MF is no different than say offering 0.9% financing, the manufacturer is losing money on the financing and making it back up by selling the car. Same is true with the inflated residual. In a lease rebates and things of that nature have a much bigger impact on the payment. $10,000 in incentives might change a finance payment $50, but it might change a lease payment $250.
I had a suspicion that the i7 50 vs 60 was not just about power difference as what others wrongly assumed in this thread earlier, but I didn’t have time to do the research. Thanks CSLA for providing the facts.
Honestly, if the Active Comfort Drive with Road Preview in the i7, is the same technology as DHP “Dynamic Handling package” in my X7, I can’t believe how come you (streamliner) felt that the 60 drove just like the 50. The DHP is very noticeable, and a car without it sucks after you try the same car with DHP (unless the 60 you tried also didn’t have the active Comfort Drive Pkg?). It’s kinda that you can live without it, but not after your own/drive a car with DHP which also includes rear wheel steering.
My concern is, I think the Active Comfort Drive is only available for the i7 M70 and the same for the laminate glass, unless they just made both of these also available for the 60 in 2025.
@Streamliner , I don’t recall if it was you or someone else, but I remember that I posted a comment once that you should really not look at the configurator at all and ignore it (it is useless and can deceive you). You really need to look and read the Ordering Guide and look at all the options there and see what is STD and what is not STD for each trim (50, 60 or M70) and then see what each trim is missing. Last note: I would never ever call the Genius team again … FYI- they are clueless and they are trained to only read scripted answers or search the manual.
The 60 he drove didn’t have the autobahn package, so yeah it was just like the 50. Like with the S Class the vast majority of cars don’t have it like they don’t have MBC or eABC
With BMW, you can pretty much get anything that’s on any trim through special order, but in this case they’re insisting there’s some sort of range limitation with Active Comfort Drive w/ Road Preview due to it being single motor electric as well as the i7 50 targeting a lower transaction price... I’m a little confused as well.
I have confirmed the Active Comfort Drive with Road Preview and Climate Comfort Double Laminated Glass are both currently available on the 60.
My last Individual 7 took seven months from order to delivery but it was a special order exterior color, special order interior color, special order wood, autobahn package, climate comfort glass, and icon adaptive LED headlights. The last two options technically not available on 740s at any price.
Streamliner…. U can try to find an i7 M70 for a test drive and see if you care about those missing options (Active Comfort Drive and Laminated Glass). I believe there are standard on the i7 M70. I just looked at the ordering guide, if you switch to the 60, you’d also get Alcantara headliner, front/rear massage seats and Panorama LED SkyLounge.
I’m not sure an i7 M70 would be a good representation of a 60 with 19in wheels and Autobahn package. The M70 has sport tuning for the suspension and steering, which combined with the 21in or 22in wheels would make a holistically different experience.
Looking at Streams past automotive history, I’d say having the most comfort oriented active suspension is paramount.
I personally find the 7 loud on the highway without the double pane glass. It’s sort of a necessity in a luxury car and bmw has never taken insulation as seriously as Mercedes in the past.
Streamliner…. U can try to find an i7 M70 for a test drive and see if you care about those missing options (Active Comfort Drive and Laminated Glass). I believe there are standard on the i7 M70. I just looked at the ordering guide, if you switch to the 60, you’d also get Alcantara headliner, front/rear massage seats and Panorama LED SkyLounge.
Alcantara headliner, front and rear massage seats and LED sky lounge are all options on the 50 as well
Alcantara headliner, front and rear massage seats and LED sky lounge are all options on the 50 as well
I didn't say they are not available on the 50....... I know that, but some are already standard in the 60 (i.e.: LED Sky Lounge). In the M70, most of them are already standard. In 2025, more options are switched to STD for 60, or at least optional, when they are not available for the 50 (Sounds like it's believe the Laminated Glass is one of those for 2025 but I haven't seen that formally yet in the 2025 ordering guide). I would not get a 7-series without laminated glass no matter what... That's probably one reason that many folks are complaining about the extra road noise in the 7 compared to the previous generation. Laminated Glass makes a difference.
I’m not sure an i7 M70 would be a good representation of a 60 with 19in wheels and Autobahn package. The M70 has sport tuning for the suspension and steering, which combined with the 21in or 22in wheels would make a holistically different experience.
Looking at Streams past automotive history, I’d say having the most comfort oriented active suspension is paramount.
I personally find the 7 loud on the highway without the double pane glass. It’s sort of a necessity in a luxury car and bmw has never taken insulation as seriously as Mercedes in the past.
i7 M70 isn't a real M car.... the special suspension and steering tuning would probably be true if it was an M car, but for the M70, I think if u can spec the xDrive 60 with the same packages, you'd get similar driving experience. That's the reason that the M5 drives much better even comfort wise than the M550.
Recently BMW started a sneaky approach to leverage the BMW M reputation by adding the M badge on their non-M cars and labeling them as (M-Performance cars).... those are still NOT built up to the same standards of the BMW M (HIGH-PERFORMANCE M MODELS) which the 7-series isn't one of them. Hence I really doubt the the i7 M70 would be that much different comfort wise than the i7 xDrive 60 if u can option it with the same suspension packages.
Not sure on the 7 but the X3M40 is more high strung, you notice right away. My neighbor has one and I move it for her when she's out of town; I rent the 30 from time to time at SixT, and it's less aggressive across the board: Throttle tip-in, exhaust note, ride tuning, etc. They're nothing like an actual M car but they do differentiate them on at least that model.
02-27-2024, 12:06 AM
