Bubba1

I’m just not 100 percent convinced the Urus is worth so much more money than a Cayenne Turbo or the X5M/X7 models.

Once again, after a certain price point most vehicles are emotional decisions. What something is worth to someone is indeed a very subjective assessment.

SW20S

Easily the worst experience I have ever had buying a car...

Mysteriously I never got a survey!

crabman

If you want, we're all here to help talk you into something more expensive! Seriously though, I'd consider taking a spin in the X5 60i, see what you think.






I actually laughed out loud!

Streamliner

SO, I again drove the I7 eDrive50 & xDrive60 back to back. As to the way they drive, I definitely like the 60 better. That said, it was a reasonably hot day today and as the salesperson futzed with the control SCREEN, to try & get the A/C working, I was absolutely flabbergasted with the frigging, truly INSANELY over done & complicated menus. All of this B.S. flashing on the huge screen, I thought I was in Vegas watching one of those “No-Armed-Bandits” suck another poor soul’s credit card dry.

The A/C vents are virtually invisible, as are the tiny control levers used to direct the air flow. When I got in my S560 to leave, I just LOVED my big, round, easily adjustable vents in my car.

I guess during the first couple of I7 test drives, I was so enamored with the way the car drove, I never paid much attention to the huge screen and all the absolutely UNNECESSARY content they have crammed in there. I must say, it was a real turn off for me and I am reconsidering going BMW. I don’t know where that leaves me, but I do have a nice S560, still with only 16K miles on the clock. Sometimes, the best thing to do, is to do nothing. For now, that’s what I’m doing.

crabman

There is a shortcut directly to climate that is always on screen. Once you go in there and do a little set up, (turn on the AC and that sort of thing) you're all done. The temp controls are always at the bottom of the screen and immediately accessible from the top layer. That's really all you need to do to get rolling because unlike MB the climate is excellent; completely set and forget. I haven't been in there since the day I bought the car.

Much like MB, the traditional BMW vents were very well engineered, but no, somebody just had to mess with them. The temperature control in my car is excellent despite the vents being made more... Is fiddly a word? Agree in any event, why change one of the best vent designs in the business?

Anyhow, you won't be in the GUI much; it's purpose, insofar as getting into the menus or applications, is setup and housekeeping. As an example, setting up your cameras to turn automatically at your driveway and other locations.

To put a relatable perspective on it, I didn't often get into the menus with the 580 once I had all the settings sorted out, and it's the same with BMWs new LCI. If you were ok with the amount of interaction you had with your 580 you'll probably be ok with the 7 once you get it dialed in.

So dialed in... MBUX has a more intuitive menu tree and layout. It took me a fair bit of time to sort through all the crap in the BMW, several days I'd say. Not days of work, but it was tedious, so I did it in sections, each time I was driving. I had MBUX mostly done before I left the dealers lot at delivery.

SW20S

This is interesting, why was that? What differences did you feel? I haven't driven a 50 yet, but for the cost savings thats what I was leaning towards...

The salesman didn't know what he was doing. The climate system is very simple actually. You just leave it on AUTO and set the temp you want, and if you want the climate screen with all the options you push one button in the center and the climate screen comes up and the control layout is pretty straightforward. The buttons are basically the layout BMW's hard buttons used to be. If you take it off AUTO it can do a lot but...just leave it on AUTO.



The vents are annoying to adjust, but I hardly ever adjust the vents personally. My bigger concern is how much air volume can come through those slits.

Well, the most compelling thing is how it drives. Honestly, if you don't want that level of tech in a car you are best served just keeping your S560. No new car at that level is going to have less tech and less content.

S_W222

Alright, I was waiting until you post about your experience comparing the 50 to the 60 before I chime in, though I hinted already about what I think. I had absolutely no doubt that the 50 feels/drives inferior to the 60. I would never ever get a BMW without the dynamic handling package adaptive suspension and rear wheel steering, which is what the 60 mainly offers and the 50 doesn’t. As for ID8, yes, I have a BMW with ID7 and another with ID8 now. Idrive 8 really sucks and that’s a very common complaint by BMW owners. I think you made the right decision. I can see very long threads coming in the future if you were to get the 50. I still think that would not have changed even with the 60. Car drives good but has so many design problems all around, and this comes from a BMW fan.

Crito

Looks like someone at BMW is paying attention... the new grille looks like electric kidneys not a transformer robot's butt. I don't get the angled infotainment screen inside but no point arguing with the AI design bot I guess.

SW20S

Just FYI I drive 8 has been replaced with I drive 8.5 which is a dramatic overhaul of most menu systems most notably the climate controls. If you drove a 23 i7 then it did not have 8.5. The difference is huge.

As for the drive, the car he drove I don’t believe had the handling package, so what would the difference be? Does the 50 not have the rear wheel steering? The 740 does…

crabman

They're up to 8.5 now, and that has in turn been updated several times. I'd say things are getting better, looking at older videos showing the ID8 interface. However that may be, I find it no more difficult to use than MBUX when it comes to actually driving and using the system. The menu logic could be outdone by a high schooler, I would give anyone that gripe. But honestly, idrive in the previous operating concept was getting stale; 7 feels much the same as it did when I left the brand more than a decade ago. IMO it needed love and there is/was no way to add the potential features the new operating concept can put on the table. In fact I'd say the real benefit of ID7 over LCI has nothing to do with idrive itself, but rather, the car came with more physical buttons. To me they did the same thing as MB and pulled too many frequently used controls into the GUI with the LCI interface. It wasn't appreciated at MB and I think most would agree they'd like to get some of those back at BMW.

Edit, ninja'd, I started typing but stopped for a phone call.

Bubba1

OK Stream, I hear you loud and clear. You do not, I repeat do not, like these modern computers called cars! I agree with you, however, there is really no choice unless you want to:

A) Build your own car like Ferrucio Lamborghini did;
B) Keep buying used cars and live in the past; or
C) Take some time, learn the technology, set the car to what you want and embrace it (all the while staying cool :-)). Perhaps involve your kids or grandkids, nice opportunity to spend time with them and even bond further. Just sayin...

From everything you've stated on this forum, IMHO, I would hang on to your dear S560, and wait for the S580 refresh. I think you're bang on by your decision to simply do nothing. Your S560 looks gorgeous, low mileage and works for you.

Hopefully, the S580 refresh will address SOME of your concerns (highly doubtful it will fully address everything). Once it comes out, the new 7 will have worked out some of its kinks, then you can, once again, take the plunge into the digital menace that are modern vehicles.

S_W222

Not entirely true, because ID8.5 is a software update and I would not consider it a “dramatic overhaul”, and my car had ID8 and I got ID8.5 as a software update. I had both versions long enough, basically a few months each now. I don’t remember what Idrive version the i7 I test drove had, because it didn’t matter as I have already experienced ID8 and ID8.5. Both of them really sucks compared to ID7 which I have on our older BMW. ID7 comes with physical buttons, much nicer and straight integration. ID8.5 is an improvement over ID8, but inferior to ID7 and I doubt any experienced BMW user/owner who had both long enough would disagree with that. Still, ID8.5 is not the reason I would shy away from the new 7, afterall I still had no issue buying a BMW with ID8 as I did.
As for the car he drove, am not sure, but I thin the 60 has the Autobahn Package, which Includes: Integral Active Steering; Active Comfort Drive with Road Preview”. Autobahn Package Is just the same as Dynamic Handling Package (DHP) on other models and older gens, but for the 7 I think they use the term “Autobahn Package”, but it’s the same system as DHP on the X5 and X7. Not as good as Mbenz MBC system, but you really really really want the DHP on BMW cars just because they are already stiffer by nature.

SW20S

8.5 makes several significant upgrades to 8 which solve many of the issues IMO. What came on cars previously that I can't buy today doesn't mean anything to me...would I rather have those dedicated buttons? Yes...am I not going to buy a car I otherwise like because it doesn't have those buttons? No. I hate the MB capacitive buttons and the lack of HVAC buttons in the W223, but they would not stop me from buying the car if I otherwise wanted the car.

All 60s do not have the Autobahn Package, and he said he could not find one to drive without ordering one himself. None of the ones I have driven or seen in inventory have it either. So thats my question, why would a 50 drive inferior to a 60 if neither have the autobahn package? I'm 100% happy with the ride and drive of the car without that package...hopefully Stream will chime back in and fill us in on why he preferred the 60...also I am pretty sure all G70s have rear wheel steering. All the ones I have driven have it, and none of them had the autobahn package with the active roll bars or the road sensing suspension. Without those options the i7 is still the best riding car I have ever driven.

S_W222

I agree. ID8.5 solves some serious issues that ID8. Also agree that I wouldn’t shy away from the 7 only because I don’t like the new IDrive or because ID7 is/was better. That’s not a factor at all. I have other critical reasons for not considering the 7/i7.
I also agree that the 50 should not be inferior to the 60 (if neither of them had the autobahn package). If that is truly the case, am really curious to hear from Streamliner as to why the 60 was better. I assumed the 60 had that package. The 50 drivetrain though is well underpowered for an EV, I don’t think I would want an EV in the 400 hp range. An EV of this size must have at least 700+ hp, but the 60 has just enough power to still enjoy a true smooth but powerful EV drive. You can only get that autobhan package with the 60 so that one that Streamliner test might have had the package…. It makes a huge difference and personally I’d never get any BMW with that the DHP or Autobahn package. The exception was my wife’s car, but that her car and he decision as she really wanted the smaller engine without the M-sport appearance package, which takes away the DHP from the X5 or X7… I hate how our X5 drives compared to our X7 with DHP, despite the car being much bigger.

Update: wait, isn’t the 50 RWD vs AWD on the 60?

SW20S

Yes, 50 is RWD 60 is AWD. One motor in the 50 two in the 60.

I actually prefer the feel of a RWD car

crabman

I wouldn't worry about the HVAC in any of the cars mentioned, they're all set and forget. While the BMW vents in the new LCI cars appear to be minimally sized, there is actually a lot of air coming in on mine, even on the lower fan settings. I would be very surprised to find less in the 7.

S_W222

i prefer the RWD too but only for ICE (liked how my first W222 RWD drove more than my W222 4-Matic facelift). But, am not sure if a RWD EV would be as fun and confident to drive as an AWD EV. I have not spent too much time driving and comparing the 50 vs 60 honestly, nor that I compared many EVs in RWD vs AWD. Most of those I test drove were AWD. In my current Tesla, I can easily tell how confident the car is and solid it is on all 4 wheels when I push it really hard on a turn or even going straight with an AWD drivetrain though. I can feel all four wheels hugging the ground, but it’s probably not a valid comparison against the i7 given the big HP difference. The i7 was more “nimble” anyway given the refined suspension but lower hp. I just can’t see how RWD EV would fit a true spirited EV driving style, but again, it’s just how I personally feel and it’s not supported by enough miles/experience with a RWD EV on my end. I know that the 50 feels so under-powered, but that’s only now as am tuned to EVs. I probably would have liked the 50 just fine if I can straight from an ICE car (I remember that I liked every EV I had driven last year coming from an ICE daily drive). Not anymore now… any EV with less than 500 hp feels so sluggish, very underpowered and really boring to drive. I guess my point is, anyone can like almost any car, it’s all about what he likes, appreciates and what he wants from a car but most importantly his previous daily drive.

S_W222

I agree…In fact, most EVs have really awesome AC performance. I doubt that the small vents would be an issue. Our X7 has the smaller new vents, and they work just as good as the larger older vents design in our X5.

SW20S

Thats good to know...

Its all what you're used to. I'm not a power guy, an i7 50 has 450 hp and the same 549 lb/ft of torque that the 60 does. I have a hard time believing it will feel dramatically slower. What I like the EV for is the total smoothness of the powertrain.

I will pay for the 60 if that gives me the better experience, lease wise its about $400 a month more, not the end of the world for something I want.

Streamliner

In the very heavy I7, I thought a lighter, RWD model, with less weight over the front axle would be better, but this last test drive told me the opposite. The AWD just felt better to me. The salesman had me floor the 60 on a vacant stretch of highway from a 5mph roll. Unbelievable! Why they even make these cars so ridiculously quick is just nuts to me, but the car is a rocket ship. At the very least, these cars should have a “lock” on the performance capability, so if your 16 year old wants the keys, they won’t be able to kill themselves & others so easily. The car is insanely quick, which is not something I want or need, but IF I end up going for an I7, I’m going 60 with the Autobahn Pkg. Still thinking.

P.S. My S560 is being serviced and they loaned me a new EQS450 4-Matic SUV. Impressive ride quality and the electric drive is absolutely addictive! The steering wheel is all dusty and the haptic controls don’t work.

SW20S

I will have to drive a 50 and a 60 back to back...

What do you think of the EQS vs the i7?

QuadBenz

The EQS SUV is lovely to drive. How does it compare to the i7? What do you think of the EQS SUV overall? Would you consider one?

CSLA

Hey all, curious to hear Streams opinion but as I currently own an i7 with the mysterious autobahn package and an eqs580 suv I thought I’d chip in and share my comparison here as well that I wrote on the 7 series forums.

“I thought I would post a comparison between my newly acquired i7 xDrive60 and the EQS580 SUV I picked up a week later to replace my EQS450+ sedan.

They are similar MSRP vehicles and both pretty loaded so the best foot forward of EV platforms from both Mercedes-Benz and BMW.

This particular EQS is fitted with the Manufaktur Neva Grey/Biscaya blue interior, which places full Nappa leather on the upper dash, door armrests, and center armrests on top of all the other areas. On top of the yacht grain natural wood, it really elevates the interior atmosphere to reflect an S class level vehicle. The copper stitching is an especially nice touch.

The interior material choices are a lot more classic than my cashmere/merino equipped i7, but really elevated none the less. I have noticed in door entry areas Mercedes is using hard plastic while BMW is lining that area with carpet and felt.

The BMW wins with overall seat comfort, the radiant heating from the dash, door panels, and armrests being a real soothing treat. I will say that I do prefer the Mercedes-Benz massage programs, the rollers are sharper/more targeted and the hot stone program is divine.

The i7 is equipped with the 356 climate comfort laminated glass and the EQS with the acoustic comfort package. They are both eerily quiet. Almost watching the world pass around you without hearing anything. There is slightly more overall wind noise in the Mercedes at freeway speeds maybe due to the suv shape, Hoover I have noticed the slight mirror based wind noise on the i7 that others bring up on this forum.

The EQS580 is faster than the i7 and the range on the display shows 318 miles at full charge, while my i7 shows around 270 miles. The acceleration in the Mercedes is more immediate and seems to continue stronger at higher speeds. Both intelligent regeneration modes seem to operate similarly. Almost like the stopping portion of active cruise control.

The ride and handling qualities are where these two vehicles really differentiate themselves. The EQS is like an over powered speed boat. The ride quality is exceptional, however you float and the body exhibits motions as you encounter the road. Airmatic is exceptional at making the car feel like a highly insulated hovercraft. My i7 is equipped with the autobahn package and the ride feels a bit stiffer than the Mercedes, however there is minimal to no head toss or body roll and the car dispels of bumps in one rebound cycle. Every part of the i7 a suspensions seems like it’s working to keep you flat, level, and unperturbed.

The EQS feels much more nimble with 10 degrees of rear wheel steering rather than the 3 in the i7.

Lastly MBUX with hyperscreen feels like an easier to use, more impressive, and more intuitive interface than idrive 8.5. It has become second nature in usage and the zero layer concept really works. Additionally, the augmented reality heads up display that projects navigation arrows and drivers assistance warnings onto the road in front of you seems a lot more advanced than BMWs HUD.

They’re both amazing cars and I feel lucky to be able to experience them on a daily basis. Happy to answer any questions.

crabman

Nice overview!

Streamliner

Well, I did NOT yet place my I7 order and the reason I have not, is because of my experience driving the EQS450 4-Matic SUV, that I have as a loaner. I must say that this is an impressive vehicle! There are certainly some less than wonderful things about it, shared with the W223–the chintzy steering wheel immediately comes to mind—but the thing drives amazingly well for an SUV.

SO, I go to the MBUSA website to “build” one and it says “Build Coming Soon.” It’s past mid-April and it’s still not up? So, I got the 2024 DOG and proceeded to put one together, but of course, I’m not allowed to build one the way I would like one, so I set it aside for the time being. The big turnoff is that the only really high end interior is a gray that is a few shades darker than absolute WHITE—with matching carpets! I always try to get the best interiors, but this interior—which is lovely—is reasonably ridiculous, from an everyday, use point of view, at least for me. The black Nappa interior is OK, but it’s not nearly as lux as the Exclusive Nappa in the 223’s—and it SHOULD be—at the very least, an available option on an EQS.

I still have the EQS and am taking my wife, daughter & grandson out to lunch today, which will involve some freeway driving. I’ll update my thoughts on this reasonably (so far) impressive machine.