Horseford

Does anyone have any experience with the new DRIVE PILOT level 3 self driving tech? Sounds like you have to pay a monthly subscription?

https://youtu.be/HXHYtndLoJ0?si=EHP24VVMzLeCoj1C

I just saw a car equipped today - with the buttons on the steering wheel. DA9 DRIVE PILOT Level 3 Conditionally Automated Driving System:Hardware pre- installed. Feature requires activation of subscription, subject to terms and conditions.

Horseford

This was a recently delivered 2024 S580. Will probably be standard hardware on 2025s.

Streamliner

I’m sorry, but to me, this is just ridiculous! It’s like signing up for some TV streaming service, only to find out that most everything you want to watch requires that you sign up for the “PLUS” version of the service. Here MB sells us a car for $146K and—as if that isn’t enough—tells us that we need to subscribe to a service to use this feature on the car. Every which way we turn these days, some massive company is trying to screw us out of more money. I’ve pretty much had it with this crap and am refusing to play along. The least they could do is include the service at no additional charge through the warranty period.

Horseford

Looks like $2500ish a year - Tesla went to this type of monthly option for FSD. Interesting that it is not in the 2025 order guide.

Streamliner

“OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT AND VALUE ADDED PACKAGES.” Sounds like something one might hear on one of those Home Shopping networks, where everything they sell is junk, in my opinion. GEEZE Mercedes-Benz, can you show just a bit of restraint and class it up a tad? Is there nobody at MB or MBUSA that gives things a second look before letting them out the door? Honestly, this seems way more Nissan or GM in my opinion and really comes off as tacky on a Mercedes-Benz, especially the S Class.

superswiss

I get the general sentiment, but in this case there's no upfront charge for the Drive Pilot hardware. MB has chosen to preinstall the hardware free of charge and then bank on enough customers to sign up for the $2500/year annual subscription to pay for it. It's a pure subscription play. Similar to phone carriers giving you a free phone and then you pay it back by committing to a 2-year service contract.

Having said that, given that this technology only works below 40 mph in stop & go traffic on limited sections of highway in Nevada and California, one has to be kinda insane to pay $2500/year for it.

Streamliner

I got to talking with a guy at the car wash that did one of those paid tests where he drove a new S580 with the Drive Pilot. They purposely scheduled the test during rush hour traffic on a busy L.A. area freeway. The “instructor” riding in the front passenger seat told the driver, once drive pilot was engaged, to check his email, then to watch a movie and to surf the web, all while the car was moving in heavy traffic. I found this to be absolutely insane and wondered what law enforcement might think about such things. The guy told me that the drive pilot was very sensitive, to the point where there were constant warning sounds & flashing lights, etc. He said he found the system to be way more of a hassle than it was worth and that he felt very uncomfortable using it even when he wasn’t doing anything more than watching the road ahead of him.

I love Distronic+ and use it frequently, but that’s where I draw the line. That’s enough “driver assistance” for me. If someone needs more, they should hire a chauffeur.

wildta

Is there any type of trial period?

chuck.norrisky

I wonder if the reason for the subscription is to give them two things... a revenue stream to cover future liability costs ... and a way to hike the price if that revenue stream doesn't provide enough to cover their actual liability. They will likely need to be more diligent about updating their navigation information also. When they say take your eyes off the road, they are taking on a lot of exposure... and it isn't going to work perfect all the time as Tesla has found with their 'auto-pilot'.

It seems the under 40 defeats the purpose for any coverage in Nevada... limited traffic, road that goes on straight ahead forever, an 80 mph speed limit, and a long drive ahead of you... I've driven across I80 many times... yeah, it'd be nice to recline the seat and turn on the massage for a bit.

Can you buy it for a month? Just for road trips?

If I had to commute in the bay area, and it actually worked in that traffic... but yeah, $10 a workday, for a 1 hour (one-way) commute would be paying that little digital chauffeur $5 an hour. Now if I could sit in the back, hmmm...

Wolfman

Level 3 used to be restricted internationally to 40mph but that was bumped to 80mph. MB states that they designed Drive Pilot for the higher limit so once that becomes a thing in the US, a subscription would make sense for some.
I also think that subscriptions in such cases do make sense. Obviously a leap of faith from MB to add unique level 3 hardware to the car for free.

Mikey53

“preinstall the hardware free of charge”. There is no free lunch. The hardware is baked into the cost of the vehicle, MB is not doing it for free.

Wolfman

What a mind boggling statement. Naturally, everything is baked into the price of the vehicle, including extra margins for options that don't add to the cost of manufacturing or the software development costs to enable subscription services. The point is that there is no charge for a pre-install similar to a rear-entertainment pre-install, something that is commonly billed for by MB,

Since one can't determine why a MSRP base price changes, this is somewhat irrelevant IMO.

Frenetic

These car subscriptions services are just another way to fleece the consumer. No one wants to pay for something that can be taken away in a car. I paid for cruise control and now you want to upsell me but only if I subscribe? Forget that. It’s like BMW and their heated seat subscription fiasco. I would never do this out of principle, and I’m sure I’m far from being the only one, whereas had they just offered it as an option, I would have paid for it in full at the time of purchase.

streborx

When people discover they've paid all this money for Drive Pilot only to experience driver assistance that strictly adheres to all traffic laws, rather than emulating their personal driving style (speed limit +5mph, jetting through yellow lights, tail-gating, drifting through stop signs, passing in the right lane and across double yellow lines, etc.) they'll quickly hunt for the kill switch.

Streamliner

And, unfortunately, many of the idiots who drive as you described, are doing so in 3+ ton SUV’s, while talking or texting on their phones or otherwise significantly distracted. The main reason I don't ride my bicycle on public streets anymore. Frankly, I hope that all automakers who are experimenting with this new “self driving” technology get their collective asses handed to them when these ridiculous systems mushroom into thousands of lawsuits. Of all the things in the world that we might need, this isn’t one of them, in my opinion. In the case of MB, getting their transmissions to work properly might be a much better use of their engineering prowess. Ya think?

streborx

When I become nothing more than a passenger in my own car, why will I want to own one? Monthly payments, insurance, registration/taxes, maintenance, fuel, not to mention my garage conversion to a man-cave. There will be no justification for ownership, when Uber-like services are everywhere within 5 minutes. The car industry is writing its own epitaph.

superswiss

That is the million-dollar question. Every generation or so somebody has an idea for how to fix traffic. Some still think building more lanes is the solution, even though it only makes traffic worse. Then came along the ridesharing companies touting that they will reduce traffic, because fewer cars will be on the road, but again, the complete opposite happened. All these Uber and Lyft cruising around to find their next fare are clogging up city streets etc. Now it's the self-driving transportation pods that everybody is racing towards. Elon Musk once claimed that Tesla cars would be worth $200-$300k a piece, because everybody who owns one will be able to let it cruise around as a robotaxi to make money instead of have it sit around idle in the garage when not used, but I'm not sure who wants to find their car full of puke next time they need it, because it gave some drunk idiot a ride the night before. None of this is gonna make traffic better. All we end up with is a bunch of robotaxis on congested roads. We already have a way more efficient transportation technology. It's called a train, but I know North America doesn't do public transportation. US suburbs are completely unsuitable for public transportation, because of all the sprawl. Couldn't build enough stations to service each home.

I am in tech, but I've about had it with all the tech bro BS. This disruption for disruption sake hasn't really brought much. Ridesharing for example is now more expensive than taxis used to be. It's just pouring VC money into some startup to make a few rich, but the company never becomes profitable unless it raises prices to the level of the business they were trying to disrupt. So all we have now is an app that let's us order a cab that's driven by Average Joe. All this said, I'm completely with you. Why would I wanna own a pod that drives me around and still have all the maintenance, insurance etc. costs. Let somebody else deal with that and I pay a subscription fee or fare to use transportation as a service. Sounds familiar? Yes, that's called public transportation.

Wolfman

I agree that subscription services suck. At the same time, your example of the cruise control seems flawed. If you paid for level 2 cruise control then that's all you should ever get. But f they installed level 3 hardware, charged you for level 2 only and then offered the option to upgrade at your convenience via subscription to level 3, how did they fleece you?

By the way, the BMW example is alive and kicking. It's not that they changed that. They are still offering the heated seats, heated steering wheel and upgrading from regular dummy cruise to full adaptive cruise with auto steer. Audi even charges for some silly themes with accounts for no more than a wallpaper and interior lighting.
Unfortunately this is here to stay and expand. Just like the Airlines and their fare options.

Frenetic

Because in all likelihood, the cost of a subscription over the useful life of the car (heck, maybe even after two years) costs more than a one-time upfront payment. There’s no other reason for them to make this change other than to profit. The net present value of X subscription service payments is assuredly greater than a reasonable purchase price for that option.

For example, I think a reasonable ceiling for this option, at least that I would personally consider, is maybe $5k. I pay it once and it’s mine for as long as I own the car. Now if they’re charging $2,500 a year for this crap, after a little more than two years of payment, I will have exceeded the cost of the option and yet I have to pay to continue to use it. If I kept the car for five years, it’s inconceivably ridiculous that I would have to pay $12,500, assuming they don’t jack up the price, which I’m sure they will in year three.

This is how you fleece consumers and pull the blinds over people’s heads. There’s probably some stupidly overpriced correspondence course for executives on how to do this. Or, it’s a course taught at cheap dime-store MBA programs.

Streamliner

I took a look at my BMW I7 order and the only thing I could find that would require a subscription was the Sirius XM service and the car comes with a one year prepaid subscription to that service. Am I missing something? By the way, the body is being painted today: SPACE SILVER.

superswiss

BMW ConnectedDrive is a subscription as well. They don't seem to publish the prices. You have to login to the online shop. Scroll all the way down on the following page and click Shop Now. Like Mercedes, the subscription is complementary at first. I don't know if this information is still current, but it seems you get 4 years complementary, similar to the 3 years Mercedes used to have. Some services are free for life, which is the case with Mercedes as well.

https://www.bmwusa.com/explore/connecteddrive.html

CSLA

I had to spend $150 in the connected drive store to get different welcome animations for the crystal DRLs in my $157k i7.

Everyone’s participating in this asinine experiment.

CSLA

It needs to hurry up and get here so we can have a thorough comparison!

I think I prefer MBUX with hyperscreen in my EQS580 compared to idrive in the bmw. But everything else about the i7 itself is next level. The best part about the suspension is taught competent handling combined with an isolating ride. Really makes the EQS feel like a one trick pony once you approach a corner.

I believe the light animations was a one time purchase but I just found something else I need to subscribe to yearly.

Lou B

If you don't want it, don't buy it...everything else is superfluous, a waste of energy and breath.

Streamliner

Well, gee, isn’t that what mostly takes place here? Without the “superfluous” postings, what fun would it be?

Here’s a superfluous photo I took the other day, under the heading “The more things change………” I think he had Vogue whitewalls too. I was going to ask him to lower the top, but I think you have to subscribe to get that feature to work.