Frenetic

Well for me growing up as a car enthusiast, I could glance at a car at dusk far in the distant and could immediately tell if it was German, American or Japanese. I could likely tell you what brand and model it was as well, simply from the silhouette. It’s not like that anymore as everyone is tuning their cars to specific markets or chasing the same fads.

SW20S

Im still able to do that today…

Wolfman

I like the 7 Series to be successful even if that car isn’t for me (we have actual BMW ownership experiences), just don’t care for incorrect/incomplete data to be presented as facts.

SW20S

I see no evidence that anything I posted is incorrect...the EQS and the S Class are not the same car despite there being overlap between them. By that logic we should include 8 Series GC sales in with the 7...both large sedans at similar price points but very different...like the S Class and EQS.

MBNUT1

Not really. The BMW's 7 series combines the markets of both the EQS and S Class.

SW20S

Go ask the folks in the EQS forum if they would have considered the 7 Series. The EQS is very different.

teksurv

For me, I'd compare the ICE 740/750e/760 with the S500/S580e/S580. These are like for like to compare. The I7 and the EQS are both unique as EV's, and if an EV comparison is to be done in terms of sales I'd compare these separately. Just my take.

SW20S

Then you have consumers like me that are comparing the S580 and the i7 because the EQS doesn't appeal to them.

Its a fallacy that a buyer only considers EVs or ICE cars. My interest in the i7 is not specifically because its an EV, its because of how it drives.

teksurv

For me, I'd prefer to see the breakdown of sales figures between the aforementioned ICE models (740 to S500 and so on) as well as in the case of the 7 series the breakout of I7 sales. I'd be curious how the I7 is affecting the overall 7 sales. <-- I have not looked at/for these figures. As for choosing between ICE and EV, of course you should cross shop.

Wolfman

Agree that if sales figures are represented it should be complete or not at all especially if they if used to make some assertions.
But this whole conversation has nothing to do with the refresh and is just derailing the thread. Please continue to post your thoughts about the refresh or else it will be deleted.

Thanks

W205C43PFL

Well then, in that case, slow morning on the forums but anyone have any idea at all when this facelift going to be revealed?

SW20S

My guess is we will see it sometime spring of 2025.

hyperion667

I look forward to a refresh with buttons and no screens like the 'olden days'.

Wolfman

It's been reported that these are the following changes. Release 2nd half of 2025

• New Front-end with larger Grill
• LED-lid Grill
• New lighting design, as already discussed
• Optional MBUX Superscreen like the W214 E-Class
• 6th Gen. hardware for Level 3 autonomous driving to 110 km/H (68 mph) to be increased to 130km/h (81 mph) via software update in the mid-term. Existing hardware (Gen.5) gets an increase to 90km/H (55 mph) at the end of this year. Gen. 6 definitely feels like a usable Level 3 speed...
• Change to MB.OS from MBUX
• New V8. Move to M177 from M176. Power increase to 517HP + 23HP (48V Mild Hybrid). Euro HP figures... This will be a very welcome improvement IMO

W205C43PFL

Then it might take till Late spring or early summer to arrive to dealerships in USA? Hopefully the reveal happens this year so the arrival will be in early 2025 instead.

W205C43PFL

Count me in but sadly it won't happen : (

I mean Volkswagen did but I highly doubt (and hopefully I am wrong) that MB will follow Volkswagen and bring back buttons.

teksurv

More horsepower is nice. I need to see what I can find on MB.OS and how it differs from the relatively short lived MBUX.

W205C43PFL

Looks like the main difference (software wise) between MB.OS and MBUX so far is more AI? Hardware wise, it is faster and more intelligent with upgraded internals/chips?

W205C43PFL

https://mbworld.org/forums/gle-class...llo-mb-os.html

In short, MB. OS is an entirely new architecture and it is a proprietary system.

MBUX was based on NTG so like COMAND, but heavily skinned. MB. OS might had departed from NTG altogether, in everything including the coding.

Frenetic

It seems the ski jump tablet screen (and associative cheap plastic) is indeed going away, which is nice.

Is the M177 the AMG engine? If so, I assume it’s de-tuned and not assembled “by hand?”

crabman

I was thinking it's going to be derivative in terms of use, but be better locked down to support more subscriptions. Kind of like going from 7 to 8 over at BMW, it looks different but the software functionality is iterative, while the primary corporate benefit is locking the system down to protect subscription services and software unlocks for various hardware.

That's conjecture; just to be clear.

W205C43PFL

Obviously a render, but if the star headlight looked like this, I actually like it (just me though I guess):

ajm0623

thank you for this. i actually don't care what it looks like. i just want EVERYTHING to work as designed, as expected, as put-forth. take me back to the benzo days of yore when it was solid, panzer-like construction and you could **rely** on it. ima ok with the technological leaps but they need to work! (including the friggin door handles, nod to you, stream!). i have two porsche cars and they are flawless. everything operates - including the pcm - perfectly every time. including a buttery smooth transmission. PLEASE give me this in my '26 s580 - and i'll pay full sticker for it. it is very telling i think that for more than three decades now i had three late model benzo cars in my garage - always a sports car (sl), a family hauler (suv) and a luxury sedan (s). look-it my signature today - two of the three have been replaced with porsche cars. will the panny win out over the '26 s580 and take the hat-trick - completely rebranding my garage from 30+ yrs fully benzo to fully porsche? wow.

W205C43PFL

Certainly a personal preference type of thing of the changes.

I do agree I rather things just work as the W222, you know, like you said as designed, really hope facelift fixes many issues software wise with the W223.

ajm0623

yezzir. and of course it's personal preference. and my apologies - i should have been more clear - i gradually left the benzo brand because the quality slipped over and over and over with successive model selections. i could not rely on these $100,000+ cars any more - and with porsche - i could. more incredulously - benzo apparently didn't care! with nearly $1/2 million in sales (i buy not lease) frequently turned over in my garage alone - you'd think they get with it. but they don't. stuttgart gets it. and they get my money now.