It draws some attention, I get several “nice car” comments etc but it doesn’t turn heads…which I prefer.
The amount of attention is about the same between my 222 and 223, the 222 got a little more looks but I think that’s because it was white. I do miss the white vs the selenite gray I have now.
Funny story. I picked my son up from school in the pickup line a couple weeks ago (he’s 11) and he saw his friend and rolled his window down from the back seat and yelled at him, his buddy looks at the car and goes “Nice car!….expensive!” lol. 11 years old.
I proffer some thoughts for S class owners potentially moving to the Range Rover product. I took delivery of mine ~2 months ago and have been using it as my primary vehicle and this thread caused me to introspect on my drive home just now in an effort to give back to the S class community here. If you are thinking about leaving S for Range Rover and plan to use it as a primary vehicle and you've only been driving large executive sedans, some food for thought:
1) The presence of the Range Rover is very noticeable and may be uncomfortable. I do not live in a major city; rather a rural area of well heeled individuals. S classes are silent flexes. Range Rovers are loud flexes. People aren't gawking and taking selfies nor are pretty girls literally sitting on the hood like on the Phantom (this drives me insane) but the Range Rover's large presence and reputation is what it is. You either 1) will enjoy it 2) tolerate it or 3) hate it. This will also depend on where you live. If you live in Beverley Hills, I'm sure no one cares, just like no one cares about any vehicle other than the odd bright pink or blue Ghost/Phantom.
To me, a Range Rover's presence is similar to an S/A8 and the British royal family owning them adds credence. It is not ostentatious. It's stately and I like that.
2) Sitting up high - and I mean very very high is a completely new experience. I've always been a sedan person - one after another. I love long sedans and the stability it brings at high speeds and how easy it is to drive extremely fast while remaining very hushed. A Range Rover is insanely *wide*. Most people don't know a Range Rover is wider than a Phantom, an S class, an A8, you name it. The width is extremely difficult to get used to in the beginning, and then the driving height is nearly that of a F350. That sense of height commands a lot of confidence in bad weather, and is also a flex in its own right. I very much enjoy this driving position and the commanding control of the road.
3) For the love of all that is... - if you value comfort, ignore every single reviewer out there other than the established ones. The tried and true testers will tell you that 23" rims on any car - Cullinan, Range rover, whatever, all bring with it substantial drawbacks. If you're used to the S class ride and you want that waft, stick with the 21" rims. I can post a pic of my Range Rover for those that want to see it. As it's in the price point of the S class and so few people have 21s, I'll break my own rule if requested (I don't post pics of other cars I own on forums that aren't on that topic - I consider it to be rude). The Range Rover is not as soft as the S class, but it very much reminds me of the ride of the last generation 7 series (I haven't sat in the present one, sorry), or the LS500. It also reminds me of the W222 with run flat tires actually. It's soft, but it's not as soft as my A8L (though the A8L is known to be very wallowy and soft which I ADORE). Savage Geese's review talked about the buttery smooth ride of the Range Rover. I'd say he's right, but this is about perspective. I know absolutely 0 of you will complain if you get the 21s, but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention it. If your S class is fitted with massive wheels, then yeah that won't ride as well as the Range Rover. Worth noting my A8L has 19" rims for a reason (all my cars ride on the smallest rims possible).
4) If you drive like an insane maniac and prefer to go at Warp 9.9, pls set expectations that a large box on wheels is going to be louder than a sedan. I drove the Cullinan recently at a very high speed and they are all very quiet cars, but they are not as quiet as a German executive sedan. Physics wins, even if all of these cars are insanely insulated with acoustic glass (please don't buy a Range Rover without acoustic glass. It's stupid). If you go <80mph on the highway, you won't notice a thing.
5) This idea that a Range Rover is unreliable is completely unfounded. I avoided these cars my entire life but only now did I do enough research to learn that MY25+ and above L460 full size Range Rovers (not PHEV) are not scary vehicles. They're as unreliable as any Audi, Mercedes GLS or BMW X7. That said the Range Rover body and front/rear subframe are completely aluminum so if you list in a salted area in the Winter, these are great cars. Like all of the cars mentioned here, if you're going to own one after the warranty period - it's as brutal as keeping an S class on the road up to 10 years or whatever. It's certainly not scary, but it could get expensive. Par for the course.
6) The Range Rover comes in SWB and LWB. I got the SWB because I've gotten very tired of parking very long sedans. But - my household has 2 people. The LWB sedans provide better stability across long undulations and such. However, the Range Rover is very wide so Y axis stability is better, but I have 0 doubt a LWB Range Rover would be even more stable. That said, I literally only take my Range Rover for golf....so a LWB seemed excessive to me because of the sedans.
7) The interior leathers, the build quality - all reminds me of the W140. (provided one gets the premium interior comfort package which leathers up everything & offers acoustic glass) - for a mere $2100 CAD. Please get this if you're buying one. This vehicle is truly British engineering at its best and I still don't understand how this is 1/4 of the price of a Cullinan. It's certainly 80-90% of the way there quality wise.
8) While the car can lower itself to help people climb in, if you're not a tall person, get the deployable steps. I'm tall so I can climb in and out alright but it is a bit of a struggle in all honesty.
9) If you have the burmester 4D stereo on your W223 - sorry to say, you will be disappointed with all of the sound system options on the L460. I have the $6500 Bang and Olufsen sound system on the Audi A8L. The two ....are not in the same league. That said, I'm getting used to the Meridian 3D sound system on the Range Rover, but this is a weak spot on the L460. That said I am a proper audio-nerd to the Nth degree. Most people don't care.
I gush like Savage Geese gushed for a reason. I'm extremely detail oriented and often find fault with anything. The Range Rover isn't perfect, but it's pretty damn close.
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All in all, if you're thinking about replacing your S class with a Range Rover (or any other tall SUV), I'd say - go for it. It's a new experience! I love my sedans and the Range Rover is complementary but if I was forced to ditch my sedans for 1 vehicle, then I'll say this. I already have committed to buying Range Rovers until I'm dead. I love it - it's a great vehicle that can go anywhere, do anything, and be perfectly at home at the Ritz Carlton or in the country side covered in dirt (or I guess bugs, because who actually off roads these things??)
Oh - and lastly. As far as looks go, I have never owned a car that is this handsome to look at. It truly is a work of art on wheels and is what drew me to the Range Rover in the first place. I think it's the prettiest car I've ever owned. It's something truly to behold in person.
This thread has gone all over the place and I love the natural evolution of topics. It is timely that today I was thinking about vehicle presence. To me, the W222 screamed "boss". The W223 is extremely subtle to me (pre FL). Until I see a post FL in real life I won't comment. It doesn't help that Mercedes makes everything look the same shape and that has its pros and cons and I am NOT stating this as a negative thing.
Let me explain. One of the coolest things of owning an Audi A8L is most people don't know what it is. I jokingly call it an Audi A4x2. However, the odd person who knows cars will know, and the subtle attention that it gets is nice. A Range Rover is fairly loud and shouty, and the Rolls Royce is just obnoxiously loud. I don't mind attention, but I don't like too much of it. I just want a nice car that's well built and I like keeping to myself.
This is where the W223 is a bit ??? to me. When I see an S class, I don't think much of it. I know what it is. I know the type of person it attracts, but there's just so many of them that I don't think it gets a stupid amount of attention (unlike a W140, W222, from back in the day).
Are you guys saying your S classes draw a lot of attention? I ask because I genuinely am trying to find something in between an A8 and a Range Rover, and I absolutely do not want the attention of a Phantom ever again.
Due to me being an early buyer, (I was the first W223 buyer at my dealer) It got a lot of questions. At this point, I doubt it would get any attention or questions because they're so common in L.A.
This thread has gone all over the place and I love the natural evolution of topics. It is timely that today I was thinking about vehicle presence. To me, the W222 screamed "boss". The W223 is extremely subtle to me (pre FL). Until I see a post FL in real life I won't comment. It doesn't help that Mercedes makes everything look the same shape and that has its pros and cons and I am NOT stating this as a negative thing.
Let me explain. One of the coolest things of owning an Audi A8L is most people don't know what it is. I jokingly call it an Audi A4x2. However, the odd person who knows cars will know, and the subtle attention that it gets is nice. A Range Rover is fairly loud and shouty, and the Rolls Royce is just obnoxiously loud. I don't mind attention, but I don't like too much of it. I just want a nice car that's well built and I like keeping to myself.
This is where the W223 is a bit ??? to me. When I see an S class, I don't think much of it. I know what it is. I know the type of person it attracts, but there's just so many of them that I don't think it gets a stupid amount of attention (unlike a W140, W222, from back in the day).
Are you guys saying your S classes draw a lot of attention? I ask because I genuinely am trying to find something in between an A8 and a Range Rover, and I absolutely do not want the attention of a Phantom ever again.
You stole the words right out of my mouth. Exactly how I see it too. With the pre-FL, from a distance I genuinely see some sort of C/E class vibes sometimes. It just doesn’t have that commanding presence the W222, W221, W220 , or honestly any S, naturally had. The front end is a big part of the issue on the pre-FL. The styling comes across very unattractive and boring, like way too-anonymous than any lux sedan should be. Ironically, that’s exactly why the Maybach version works so much better, a lot better, whether it looks nice or not but at least it has presence. The added chrome, elongated proportions, and extra design elements finally give the visual weight of 100K+ USD luxury presence. Exterior is part of my issues, the biggest is then when you step inside, you go from an exterior that could pass as a cheaper regular model to an interior that really falls short in both design identity and quality at the same time. The facelift at least tried to address some of the overly subtle and generic styling, and of course fixed some of the interior issues. Whether people love it or hate it is another story, but at least it makes an attempt to give in a identity instead of just looking anonymous or uninspired. I still need to see FL in person to even confirm that. Also to you point, even if it attracts attention, it still doens't matter much because there’s definitely a difference between “drawing attention” and having presence. Presence is what matters to me. A W220 or W221 today won’t necessarily turn heads anymore and bring no attention, but they still carry themselves with real luxury presence and are very noticeable as a big lux sedan around. The pre-FL lacks both so badly like u said.
You stole the words right out of my mouth. Exactly how I see it too. With the pre-FL, from a distance I genuinely see some sort of C class vibes sometimes. It just doesn’t have that commanding presence the W222, W221, W220 , or honestly any S, naturally had. The front end is a big part of the issue on the pre-FL. The styling comes across very unattractive and boring, like way too-anonymous than any lux sedan should be. Ironically, that’s exactly why the Maybach version works so much better, a lot better, whether it looks nice or not but at least it has presence. The added chrome, elongated proportions, and extra design elements finally give the visual weight of 100K+ USD luxury presence. Exterior is part of my issues, the biggest is then when you step inside, you go from an exterior that could pass as a cheaper regular model to an interior that really falls short in both design identity and quality at the same time. The facelift at least tried to address some of the overly subtle and generic styling, and of course fixed some of the interior issues. Whether people love it or hate it is another story, but at least it makes an attempt to give in a identity instead of just looking anonymous or uninspired. I still need to see FL in person to even confirm that. Also to you point, even if it attracts attention, it still doens't matter much because there’s definitely a difference between “drawing attention” and having presence. Presence is what matters to me. A W220 or W221 today won’t necessarily turn heads anymore and bring no attention, but they still carry themselves with real luxury presence and are very noticeable as a big lux sedan around. The pre-FL lacks both so badly like u said.
Pinnacle S class to me which brings a massive smile to my face *still* is the post FL W222 with the 3 lines in the headlights. The W221 missed the mark for me and the W223 missed all marks for me. I still smile when I see a W220.
It's interesting how S class has evolved over the years. Based on pictures, I think the post FL W223 redeems itself somewhat slightly. But we shall see.
The W222 post FL reminds me of the D4 Audi A8L with the V shape LED light in the headlights. That was transporter A8/S8 time. Gorgeous with true identity.
I've pondered the post FL Maybach S but it's a hard no for me. I can't justify paying twice the price for a few swapped badges - I'm not an idiot (so I claim). A regular S class; however, is definitely on the table.
I agree that the FL 222 is a "better looking" car, but I don't see anything unattractive about the 223 at all. Its big, sleek and they grab my attention on the road too. Its just not an over the top design that screams at people and tries too hard and to me thats what I like about it. The FL tries too hard IMO and loses its elegance for that reason. I can understand why someone who likes the G70 7 Series would think that, but that car to me just tries way too hard and is devoid of any elegance whatsoever. I also think the Maybachs are totally garish.
I have always confused MB models from a distance, including the 222 generation, from behind I see E Classes and C Classes all the time and mistake them for S Classes.
IMO the Range Rover is the same way, its subtle and beautiful without trying too hard which is what I like. They're everywhere around here, more common than S Classes so no more ostentatious than the S. Costwise they are a lot more expensive because the rebates aren't there...if you lease like I do a similar MSRP Range Rover ($140K) is like $900 a month more expensive. Sports are way more reasonable to lease.
There was recently a poll on ClubLexus about the S vs the 7, so not MB owners or fans...which would they buy:
There was recently a poll on ClubLexus about the S vs the 7, so not MB owners or fans...which would they buy:
I think the jury is out on what people think of the W223, but I think the jury has already reached a verdict a long time ago that the 7 series might be the ugliest BMW flagship sedan the company has ever made. There might be one or two people that like the look (exterior) of the 7, but the vast majority think it's butt ugly. Its only redemption is a beautiful interior and that's what makes me think twice.
I specced out a 7 series...or I tried to online and I saw the latest 7 and I kvetched. I can't believe they ruined that car.
I'd rather drive a LS500 any day of the week than a 7 series. Heck, I'd drive a Genesis G80 (not even a G90).
It’s a shame because the current 7 is an excellent car. I really tried to look past the styling and convince myself that I liked it but ultimately just couldn’t. They do sell well…but they have great lease support and also offer the EV option in the same model.
I think the jury is out on what people think of the W223, but I think the jury has already reached a verdict a long time ago that the 7 series might be the ugliest BMW flagship sedan the company has ever made. There might be one or two people that like the look (exterior) of the 7, but the vast majority think it's butt ugly. Its only redemption is a beautiful interior and that's what makes me think twice.
I specced out a 7 series...or I tried to online and I saw the latest 7 and I kvetched. I can't believe they ruined that car.
I'd rather drive a LS500 any day of the week than a 7 series. Heck, I'd drive a Genesis G80 (not even a G90).
To some, it’s all about how the car drives. It’s about how everything works together. My I7 drives flawlessly, which is in stark contrast to my last THREE S Class sedans, ALL of which MBUSA bought back—just in case you didn’t happen to know that. Compared to the current 7 Series, the W223 is a nicer looking car in my opinion. That said, if it doesn’t DRIVE properly, what good is it? As I get older, comfort has become WAY more important to me than exterior looks. My 2022 S580 was SO uncomfortable and SO annoying compared to my last new W222 S560 and my current I7. Good looks are nice, but I’ll take flawless, comfortable, dependable driving pleasure over looks any day.
To some, it’s all about how the car drives. It’s about how everything works together. My I7 drives flawlessly, which is in stark contrast to my last THREE S Class sedans, ALL of which MBUSA bought back—just in case you didn’t happen to know that. Compared to the current 7 Series, the W223 is a nicer looking car in my opinion. That said, if it doesn’t DRIVE properly, what good is it? As I get older, comfort has become WAY more important to me than exterior looks. My 2022 S580 was SO uncomfortable and SO annoying compared to my last new W222 S560 and my current I7. Good looks are nice, but I’ll take flawless, comfortable, dependable driving pleasure over looks any day.
I'm truly happy you're happy with the 7 series. What anyone else thinks is irrelevant and I am with you re comfort. It's one reason I'm keeping my A8L forever.
I believe the G70 7er will be getting a positive reappraisal when the MOPF enters production in July the way the W223 S-Klasse MOPF has since entering production in March or April.
To some, it’s all about how the car drives. It’s about how everything works together. My I7 drives flawlessly, which is in stark contrast to my last THREE S Class sedans, ALL of which MBUSA bought back—just in case you didn’t happen to know that. Compared to the current 7 Series, the W223 is a nicer looking car in my opinion. That said, if it doesn’t DRIVE properly, what good is it? As I get older, comfort has become WAY more important to me than exterior looks. My 2022 S580 was SO uncomfortable and SO annoying compared to my last new W222 S560 and my current I7. Good looks are nice, but I’ll take flawless, comfortable, dependable driving pleasure over looks any day.
I've heard that justification, er, argument before and it does have some merit. But in a world of a lot of ugly, the last thing I would want is a car that I'd have to approach with my eyes closed, and I find the interior of the 7 as unappealing as the exterior. I mean, I'm sure everything functions perfectly with Rose ODonnell, but I'd pick Michelle Pfeiffer every time.
I've heard that justification, er, argument before and it does have some merit. But in a world of a lot of ugly, the last thing I would want is a car that I'd have to approach with my eyes closed, and I find the interior of the 7 as unappealing as the exterior. I mean, I'm sure everything functions perfectly with Rose ODonnell, but I'd pick Michelle Pfeiffer every time.
This is my thing, at the end of the day as much as I liked the car, and I do believe that its on the whole a better car than the W223 S Class, especially the i7, and they are considerably cheaper to lease. I just couldn't spend this much money to drive something that I had to convince myself I liked the looks of. Whenever I see my W223 I think to myself "wow". I snap pictures of it etc, just like I have all my cars I loved the looks of. I wouldn't be taking pictures of a G70 7 personally.
And this idea that its "7 Series incredible, S Class terrible!" is absurd. The S Class is an incredibly nice driving car, the ride and drive is still superior to gas versions of the 7 IMO. Its incredibly quiet with no road or wind noise. It has a great audio system, great refined powertrain, comfortable high quality interior with great tech, its a great car. Did Mercedes save too many pennies inside? Absolutely they did...is the tech a little gltchy....yeah it is...but in a 7 it might not have those complaints about the interior, but....its ugly. Life is about tradeoffs
Streamliner legitimately had a problematic car, and he bought a car he had never driven with an optional suspension nobody had any experience with which was foolish...but there are people who have legitimately had problematic G70 7 Series' also, we have a member here no who's 760 was bought back as a lemon and is now in a 223 S Class. It happens.
Streamliner legitimately had a problematic car, and he bought a car he had never driven with an optional suspension nobody had any experience with which was foolish...but there are people who have legitimately had problematic G70 7 Series' also, we have a member here no who's 760 was bought back as a lemon and is now in a 223 S Class. It happens.
It truly is a luck of the draw thing. I have had my A8L for 7 years with 0 "proper" warranty claims. There is one guy on AW with non stop issues. (same engine too). Same goes with Range Rovers. Some are insta-lemons while most are super reliable. W223/7, etc are all in the same boat.
It boggles my mind as to *why* though. None of these are "hand made" cars. They are all assembly line built vehicles largely automated with robots. Anyway, I'm at a point in my life where I don't care about car brands b/c they are all just a bunch of parts from suppliers welded together and stamped with a badge. Are some 7s duds? Yes. Same goes with every car like the 223, A8, etc. At this point, even LS500s are mostly duds
Life's too short to drive a car that doesn't make the person who owns it happy. If a 7 series owner is happy - great! Same goes with W223s, etc etc. To the people with duds, it truly is sad to see that much money insta-vanish but best to trade it in, buy another car and move on. (or buy another of the same car...!)
It truly is a luck of the draw thing. I have had my A8L for 7 years with 0 "proper" warranty claims. There is one guy on AW with non stop issues. (same engine too). Same goes with Range Rovers. Some are insta-lemons while most are super reliable. W223/7, etc are all in the same boat.
It boggles my mind as to *why* though. None of these are "hand made" cars. They are all assembly line built vehicles largely automated with robots. Anyway, I'm at a point in my life where I don't care about car brands b/c they are all just a bunch of parts from suppliers welded together and stamped with a badge. Are some 7s duds? Yes. Same goes with every car like the 223, A8, etc. At this point, even LS500s are mostly duds
Life's too short to drive a car that doesn't make the person who owns it happy. If a 7 series owner is happy - great! Same goes with W223s, etc etc. To the people with duds, it truly is sad to see that much money insta-vanish but best to trade it in, buy another car and move on. (or buy another of the same car...!)
It’s inconsistent manufacture quality. Something that shouldn’t be that way but it is. It’s a lot of it luck of the draw. Technology plays a role too, so much of these cars are dependent on technology and when you have difficult to diagnose and solve tech issues that’s really frustrating.
And totally, there’s no reason to be constantly putting other cars down the way several people love to come here and do. If you don’t like a car, get something else and be happy. Most of us are happy with our cars.
I have a general question because I don't visit other car forums such as BMW, Lexus, etc. I have a 2023 S so I'm only interested in this forum. But do Mercedes owners visit other forums and dog those brands as we see so often in this forum? Or is that specific to this one?
I have a general question because I don't visit other car forums such as BMW, Lexus, etc. I have a 2023 S so I'm only interested in this forum. But do Mercedes owners visit other forums and dog those brands as we see so often in this forum? Or is that specific to this one?
It happens all over the internet. Some forums are better at dealing with it than others. Even within forums you see people do it, VERY common for people who have the old generation car to dog the new generation car, on ClubLexus they actually remove people's access to specific forums who do that routinely.
No issue at all voicing opinions, for instance @superangrypenguin and I have not always seen eye to eye but I think his contribution to this thread has been excellent...you just have to have a level of respect for the fact that people in a specific forum of course by and large prefer and like the car that they have. When it becomes repetitive and constant negative posting like it does here from a couple of people who don't own the car or no longer own the car it really hurts the forum IMO.
My honest opinion is that every car in this segment is excellent, S Class, 7 Series, A8, Range Rover, even the Genesis G90 and yeah even the LS500, they all have their strengths and weaknesses but they are all great cars that are very enjoyable. Theres no "bad car" here as much as some people want to try and insist there is.
IMO its a very frustrating time to be a car fan. So much change in the industry and every manufacturer is trying to reinvent the wheel. Why not a square steering wheel? How about no buttons? And then buttons for things that shouldn't be buttons, hey lets have no gauges and put them up by the windshield, hey lets make the WHOLE DASH a screen! Every car that comes out has stuff that a lot of people really don't like.
It happens all over the internet. Some forums are better at dealing with it than others. Even within forums you see people do it, VERY common for people who have the old generation car to dog the new generation car, on ClubLexus they actually remove people's access to specific forums who do that routinely.
No issue at all voicing opinions, for instance @superangrypenguin and I have not always seen eye to eye but I think his contribution to this thread has been excellent...you just have to have a level of respect for the fact that people in a specific forum of course by and large prefer and like the car that they have. When it becomes repetitive and constant negative posting like it does here from a couple of people who don't own the car or no longer own the car it really hurts the forum IMO.
My honest opinion is that every car in this segment is excellent, S Class, 7 Series, A8, Range Rover, even the Genesis G90 and yeah even the LS500, they all have their strengths and weaknesses but they are all great cars that are very enjoyable. Theres no "bad car" here as much as some people want to try and insist there is.
IMO its a very frustrating time to be a car fan. So much change in the industry and every manufacturer is trying to reinvent the wheel. Why not a square steering wheel? How about no buttons? And then buttons for things that shouldn't be buttons, hey lets have no gauges and put them up by the windshield, hey lets make the WHOLE DASH a screen! Every car that comes out has stuff that a lot of people really don't like.
This...
Also, what a great conversation; haven't checked in for a few days and missed 100+ posts!
Car forums are enthusiast forums and as such can get easily heated or overly negative when there is too much trolling going on. This is nothing new either; growing up in Germany people were married to their brands, often single brand households and fiercely defended them. BMW guys always hated Mercedes and both hated Audi and visa versa
But all these cars are great at what they do and many discussions boil down to design details. I do believe you have to want to look back at the car after exiting and like what you see, the driving experience alone feels insufficient especially at this price point. I for one look forward to checking out both facelifts when available but I see many improvements in both the S-Class and the 7 Series.
For this post "you" is not directed at anyone here but rather directed at "the car industry".
"You" know "you've" forked up when customers from all makes and models collectively "sigh" at what their automotive love of their lives have become and when, collectively, "we" reminisce about the old days. This is how far the car industry has fallen where, erm, forum members who formerly had "passionate disagreements" now are on the same side.
The future is murky especially as the industry figures out whether or not BEVs will take off. The richer car companies (Mercedes Benz et al) have money to hedge their bets and to create ICE and EV versions of the same car but no doubt it's expensive. This seriously depresses operating margins so they will cost cut to try and eek out a profit. The reality is that this is not sustainable financially, but if they don't do this, then they will lose market share to their competitor (in this case, BMW). If MB doesn't have an EV S class, then the I7 will win and end up being the number 1 market leader in the executive German sedan space. This cost cutting is now, sadly, extremely apparent.
So I get it, the next 5-10 years will be miserable for us and for car companies. "We" are left to choose between a handful of cars that even exist at this point. The A8 is out. The LS500 is out. That's a 50% reduction in available options in the top end executive sedan option. If you're an Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, or BMW fanboy, losing 50% of available options is devastating.
Let's then fast forward another 10+ years and say we're back to ICE or EV...at that point the only players left in this space will be BMW and Mercedes. Audi, Lexus or some other Chinese car company will be the new entrants but in any event, that is going to be the first time in a long time where OEMs can seriously make profit on sedans in this category and true innovation can happen again. The question is, though, will this category of car even exist? Because as it is, ALL of the German and Japanese sedans have been suffering death from a thousand cuts.
I think we all collectively hope so, but as far me as a car guy, I want to fast forward to that period to 1) see what happens and 2) to buying whatever the new version of the W140 is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SW20S
No issue at all voicing opinions, for instance @superangrypenguin and I have not always seen eye to eye but I think his contribution to this thread has been excellent
W223 looks amazing. It definitely has a commanding presence on the road. I even rubber neck when I spot them. This happens alot with every new model until years later it becomes appreciated. We see this phenomena with so many cars. Heck, even the pre-FL 7-series is growing on me. The right color can make a big difference as well.
This...
Also, what a great conversation; haven't checked in for a few days and missed 100+ posts!
Car forums are enthusiast forums and as such can get easily heated or overly negative when there is too much trolling going on. This is nothing new either; growing up in Germany people were married to their brands, often single brand households and fiercely defended them. BMW guys always hated Mercedes and both hated Audi and visa versa
But all these cars are great at what they do and many discussions boil down to design details. I do believe you have to want to look back at the car after exiting and like what you see, the driving experience alone feels insufficient especially at this price point. I for one look forward to checking out both facelifts when available but I see many improvements in both the S-Class and the 7 Series.
Really? I thought they were "Good friends from Bavaria" I remember MB once answered me when I asked during the MBUX 1.0 days.
every car in this segment is excellent, S Class, 7 Series, A8, Range Rover, even the Genesis G90 and yeah even the LS500
It's a shame the A8 is on the way out, but at least the LS is still available to those not in North America or Europe.
I feel like the Range Rover is technically in a different segment, but that's just my opinion.
I have a general question because I don't visit other car forums such as BMW, Lexus, etc. I have a 2023 S so I'm only interested in this forum. But do Mercedes owners visit other forums and dog those brands as we see so often in this forum? Or is that specific to this one?
Then, there are those of us, like Wolfman and myself who currently have both MB & BMW vehicles.
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
