You guys have probably already seen this article about Audi A8 being discontinued: https://www.motor1.com/news/789166/a...r-books-close/

Interesting that Doug Demuro, on his podcast while discussing the A8, thinks the 7-series might also be on the chopping block

 

It's a shame all the big body sedans are slowly fading away. I heard an Audi Q9 is going to replace the A8.

 

Hope the S Class does not follow the same trend as the A8! My MB dealer continues to tell me the S Class continues to have lower and lower sales because "EVERYONE" wants a SUV or crossover.

 

Amazing that most people don't see the irony in the fact that an "SUV" is just another iteration of the station wagon. Driving a station wagon looked moronic as they were being phazed out. As for me, I think the same way about crossovers and suvs.
But the Market has spoken.

 

I hope the S class will stick around for a lot longer. As the market shifts to hybrids and electrics, the weight is no longer viewed as an issue. I can see the appeal of SUVs when a hybrid battery takes up half the trunk.

 

S Class isn't going anywhere

 

That is what was said about the rotary style telephones and party lines!!!! And car phones with antennas attached to the rear window and-----! Or since no one wants to buy a S Class because the market wants SUVs, MB sells a S class for $450,000 US dollars with much lower volume. I remember when S Class cars were much more expensive (approximately 1997 and around 2000 with w220 the price went down alot with more volume sales). It is all about profit margins. MB CEO in board strategy meetings has stated they want to focus more on the high end essentially increasing margins and start to decrease lower value cars again. But they are attempting to change direction with the Titanic. Very hard to do. So with less volume the price of the S Class is going way up if they ultimately don't cancel it all together. Just saying!

Oh and remember--The EQS was essentially going to replace the S Class as we know it today--that worked well did it not?

 

Yes--look at the size of the trunk on the S63 E Performance. The trunk size was about the size of a large shoe box. Don't have to worry about that trunk size as MBUSA just bought mine back!

 

They might choose to push the S Class further upmarket...but its not going anywhere. Mercedes is not going to cancel the S Class. There will always be a market for it, and with all of the other models MB is selling at higher margins they don't need to make huge margins on the S Class.

I think all you have to do is look at their response to being overtaken in sales by the 7 Series. They haven't really responded with any lease support for the S Class much at all, save the window during which I got my 2024. Right now today same MSRP an S580 is about $800 more a month than a 760. For that delta I'd be driving a 760. When I got mine the delta was about $300.

 

not sure why discontinue it completely so audi doesn't have a S class competitor now? The q8 wasn't exactly gls either.

 

MB has not followed a volume game for a while. They have reduced dealer inventories, reduced discounts, lease and finance incentives and changed the dealership models in many countries; now essentially owning the inventory in dealer showrooms to reduce flooring costs and associated discounts.
The strategy moved from the prior luxury brand strategy which was also focused on high-line, high margin products (focus AMG, G-Wagon, Maybach) to plain profitability.

Point is that MB has chosen to sell less cars and make money. They had taken a beating on the EQ line and rightly so; these cars were just unattractive and somewhat half-baked. BMW has benefitted from that as they play the volume game and their equivalent models can be leased for up to 50% less than MB. Doesn't mean they are not good. Their models did drop quite a bit in material quality apart from the 7 series to offset losses in EV's but they have a much better track record on quality, something that MB must improve.

 

MB has not followed a volume game for a while. They have reduced dealer inventories, reduced discounts, lease and finance incentives and changed the dealership models in many countries; now essentially owning the inventory in dealer showrooms to reduce flooring costs and associated discounts.
The strategy moved from the prior luxury brand strategy which was also focused on high-line, high margin products (focus AMG, G-Wagon, Maybach) to plain profitability.

Point is that MB has chosen to sell less cars and make money. They had taken a beating on the EQ line and rightly so; these cars were just unattractive and somewhat half-baked. BMW has benefitted from that as they play the volume game and their equivalent models can be leased for up to 50% less than MB. Doesn't mean BMW's are not good. Their models did drop quite a bit in material quality apart from the 7 series to offset losses in EV's but they have a much better track record on quality, something that MB must improve.

 

Oh, Jeessh!!!! Come on man, now you Jinxed it!!!!

But, I agree. While in the US "we" are in a "Cadillac" (that shares not a single part with any Cadillac) for our world leaders. Most of the rest of the world has thier upper eschelon and leaders in protection versions of the S. I do not see MB ginvg up that market any time in the forseeable future.

 

I hope Steve is right in his prediction that the S isn't going anywhere. I'll continue to drive one until the car keys are taken away from me.

I honestly don't understand the move to SUVs. All, and I mean every single one of my friends have traded into SUVs. They're nice and all, but they ain't no S Class. The GLS tries to be an S, but it just isn't.

 

Oh really? Famous last words...

 

As always, thanks for the thoughts Wolfman!

I guess I am getting old--I remember the days when MB in the US offered the basic classes: C Class, E Class, S Class etc. When MB started with a million different classes they just watered down the brand! When I was in my early 20's I started buying E class cars. Then for the past 30 plus years my daily drivers have been the S Class in different variants such as S63 etc. MB "watered down" the brand when they gave us 30 different classes at lower price points--to me MB always was an "exclusive" brand. No longer IMHO! I am the guy that had bled MB doing Euro Delivery etc. Of course, Covid may have had an impact on discontinuing Euro Delivery (actually IMHO that decision already was made before Covid as the lady that ran Euro Delivery in the US decided to retire and MB decided to cancel the program instead of replacing her--I knew her as a Euro Delivery customer and her dad had been the CFO of MBUSA for many years). In any event, I am/was one of the most loyal MB buyers in the past 35 years and I am sadly having some difficulty with the way MB has progressed AND MORE IMPORTANTLY where it is going! As a long time new S Class buyer, I feel like MB has turned their attention away from people like me to the high volume lower priced car buyer. I am a high end car buyer and have felt MB has just left me behind--oh well stuff happens!

 

🤣
Not the first time too!

back to topic anyway; Mbenz must address the build quality issues otherwise they may be forced to cancel many models due to lower and declining revenues. Last couple years were terrible for the brand. Wolfman has nailed it in his post above. Precise assessment of the current situation.
They can’t be even offer competitive deals due to the declining revenues. Usually this is a very tough situation to get out of without a major overhaul of the models, quality and technical offerings and they don’t seem to be on that track yet. The new GLC is promising but I expect the ix3 to knock it down too.

 

Just a tad more info as to the strategy of MB (electric high performance AMG and Convertible SUV G Class) Below is from Autonews reported today:Mercedes-AMG is charging into electrification with a trio of high-performance battery models sharing the GT 63 badge.

The lineup, unveiled to U.S. and Canadian dealers in Sindelfingen, Germany, kicks off with a low-slung coupe arriving in early 2027, followed by a crossover late next year, and a sporty, sloped-roof utility variant in late 2028.

Mercedes revealed at the March 17 meeting an AMG G 63 Cabriolet, due in 2028, that would be the iconic G-Wagen’s first-ever U.S. drop-top.



A Mercedes spokesperson declined to comment on future product plans.

The high-performance G-Class convertible is powered by a twin-turbo V-8, according to a retailer who attended the event. The four-door model, shown in Heritage Blue, retains the boxy proportions of the standard 577-hp G 63 while adding a powered fabric roof.

The G 63 Cabriolet marks the return of a soft-top after more than a decade and replaces the two-door version of the rugged SUV. The G-Class convertible previously had a three-decade run but was never offered in the U.S.

Production of the G-Wagen convertible is expected to start in the third quarter of 2027 in Graz, Austria.

U.S. market is driving growth strategy

The product push underpins Mercedes’ growth ambitions amid the challenges it’s facing around the world.

Mercedes executives said they are targeting a return to 2 million global sales next year, with incremental volume expected primarily from North America, with demand in China staying flat.

In the U.S., Mercedes-Benz has a high-octane plan to deliver 400,000 retail sales a year by the end of the decade. The brand is shooting for a 7 percent sales increase this year, or about 325,000 vehicles.

While some of the product launches are still two years away, generating dealer frustration, the message at the meeting centered on Mercedes returning to its roots.

The automaker’s new design employs more traditional, recognizable styling cues.

The aesthetic is “aggressive, yet elegant” and abandons the more rounded EV styling of recent years, said the dealer, who asked not to be identified because the information was not public. “Regardless of model, the brand feels like Mercedes once again.”

Dealers worry as AMG leans into EVs

The three electric GTs are based on Mercedes’ AMG.EA electric architecture with high-powered axial flux motors and a fast-charging battery.

The AMG GT crossover has a Porsche Cayenne-like stance, while the sportier utility variant sits lower and has a sloped roofline. Front and rear designs are similar.

According to the retailer, the coupe boasts more than 400 miles of driving range, while the sportier of the two crossovers can go at least 300 miles.

But the AMGs are on the way with the market for EVs shrinking, and some dealers worry three similar but separate entries could crowd showrooms and dilute the performance subbrand’s exclusivity despite higher pricing potential.

Redesigned E-Class and new halos

At the meeting, Mercedes showed the redesigned E-Class it plans to launch in early 2028, initially as an EV before adding gasoline and plug-in hybrid versions.

The midsize sedan features bolder front-end styling reminiscent of the classic S-Class and includes a wagon variant.

Two halo AMG sports cars also are in the works — a GT Black Series and a special-edition CLE 63 two-door. Mercedes intends to build just 30 copies globally of the 646-hp CLE 63.

 

Let me spin this a bit different. Mercedes can afford to offer better deals but chooses not to do it. Both MB & BMW’s financial arms are doing well and this is intended to be like that.

I see that Mercedes is addressing the quality aspect as well as the innovation side of it. I feel they have definitely have made some missteps on the EV design side and questionable choices on the PHEV side, like literally all of their ePerformance models and pay dearly for it.
The AMG C63 used to be a cash cow which was virtually killed off with the 4 banger. Same with the discussed quality and supply chain issues.

Now BMW is not free of issues but general quality issues are not one of them. Their cars continue to be controversial in design and there are many complaints on virtually all models in declining material quality (perhaps apart from the 7 series), options and traditional BMW drive dynamics.
The G90 marks the first time a M5 is worse in performance and driving experience than its predecessor. Again, overly complicated PHEV tech and weight is the culprit here.

I like what BMW does on the low end (i3, iX3) but the GLC interiors are vastly better. More elegant, no goofy styling elements and more luxurious.
Also think the E-Class and especially the S-Class are much more classy and elegant than BMW’s counterparts. The MB Drive Assist Pro is superior to BMW's model and visually MB.OS easily beats iDrive X. I have to try that out to see if there is anything worthwhile apart from the BMW navigation.
In general, Mercedes can design really attractive cars, something BMW is simply unable to do. Not cars you fall in love with, they are cars you get used to.

As for the 7 series LCI (facelift), from the looks of it they fixed the ugly face and made it decent looking. It appears the interior has added the goofy iX3 screen and dashboard, so the jury it out on that but probably worse than before. If the i7 retains the 400V architecture though, might as well forget about it. But it was always the interior that made the car what it is.

The A8 was outdated and on its way out for a long time. Audi had committed no resources to it and they are in a big mess with their model strategy and financials.

 

I don’t know if I fully agree or believe the 1st part, but some of these are just personal opinions. I don’t know if anyone knows for sure what the exact financial situation issues.

Form the published numbers, numbers aren’t great. 2025 shows obvious decline in both revenue and margins. The trend since ~2023 - 2025 is clearly negative based on Yahoo Finance numbers and Mbenz Group website:

• Profit dropped ~49% in 2025
• Revenue down ~9% in 2025
• Operating profit down ~57%
• EBIT is down from €13.7B (in 2024) to €8.2B (in 2025)!!!

They are still generating billions in profit and cash flow, but the models they have recently invested in have failed miserably (especially their EV lineup and all PHEVs which are the most crucial models nowadays). There is no straightforward recovery plan out of that and the investment has already been made and yielded poor outcomes. The outcomes (as you accurately stated) is that they are now more focused on volume or models that can generate more volume and sales, than models that aren’t selling well, and that’s fair (maybe not great for luxury model fans). I also understand the optimistic and enthusiastic fan vibe, and that we all have our own perspectives, but numbers are indisputable and not just opinions and am trying to focus on that not just my own opinion.

I won’t comment on the second part. Cosmetics are purely personal opinions that I have no interest in debating. The reliability metrics, however, show a completely different picture regarding the quality aspect. Perhaps the newer, better-built models like the new GLC and the new E-class which seems to have better interior put together are yet to compensate for that trend and they need time to offset the actual reliability metrics, as they have just been recently been released to the market so I hope that goes well. Am a fan, and am doing my best to stay with the brand, but even for my GLS am seeing other brands catching up with the interior build quality part yet with lower MSRP. It’s bugs me a lot. My 2 former GLs didn’t have that issue. They are NOT better than my current GLS but they were easily better than most other options around. Not anymore as the competition is catchup up and offering even better quality/cars sometimes.

 

Yeah they surprised me with that one!

But, the S Class is even more iconic than the LS and it sells much better worldwide still (over 50k units), I don't see the S Class going anywhere. If anything they would move it upmarket.

Thats the thing, like I said before S Class leases are terrible and largely have been for the W223 run, there is a huge price delta between a 7 and an S lease paymentwise and MB could correct that if they wanted to but they haven't seemed to want to.

By comparison GLS leases right now are INSANE, GLS580 is only $100 a month more than a 450, I can lease a $125k GLS580 for $1250 a month, thats a 1% lease which is a crazy great deal. MB is undercutting X7 and X5 on leases but clearly isn't interested in doing that with the S Class and the 7.

We have several members here now who's G70 7s were buybacks.



I get it, SUVs have better seating positions, they are more versatile and practical, they have a go everywhere ability and style...I always consider a move to an SUV. The GLS is no S Class, but right now a GLS580 is like $1,000 a month less than an S580, I would get the GLS. Range Rover also gives very little up to the S Class but their leases are just as bad.

 

I am referring to BMW quality as a whole and not the G70 specifically.

I have no interest in a 7 series. It’s not a good looking car and has no elegance iMO but that doesn’t mean that I can’t appreciate the strength of certain features and designs.

It’s just not for me even though we could have had some.fabulous deals on these.

 

FYI:
Since I have been a new S Class buyer since the 1990s, I found the below data in US sales of S Class cars. The below stats are eye opening. In the past 20 years, the worst sales of S Class cars in the US was 2025 with 6443 cars whereas 2006 was 30,886 or a 79% decline in sales in 19 years. If a corporation was looking at these numbers you would think that is it worth keeping a car that sales have declined to this extent? I remember some of the high number years when I bought a new S Class such as 2006 and 2014. These numbers are eye opening.

2005 16,036
2006 30,886
2007 26,081
2008 17,787
2009 11,199
2010 13,608
2011 12,258
2012 12,587
2013 13,303
2014 24,524
2015 21,934
2016 18,803
2017 15,888
2018 14,978
2019 12,503
2020 8,589
2021 14,284
2022 15,056
2023 11,087
2024 8,810
2025 6,443

 

Thats the trend for all luxury sedans, but they don't just sell the S Class in the US, sales are +/- 50k units worldwide although even that is way down. An article on the subject:

https://www.motor1.com/news/786220/m...ales-way-down/

 

Recent
Worldwide S Class Sales
S-Class models
2025 105,564 17% Decline from 2024
2024 127,073 26% Decline from 2023
2023 171,124