turtle10250

I test drove an S63 today.
Mine is on the boat but my dealer got a couple in and let me check out one

Quick thoughts:

a) Great drive -- really enjoyed it, peppy for a car that hasnt been broken in
b) body work looks great
c) while i ordered the 030 package, the standard rims look great too
d) somewhat surprised to be disappointed by the interior. I had previously sat in an S600 which is completely sumptuous, and the 63 was somewhat dowdy by comparison. Dashboard etc have either fake leather (plastic) or hard, rough leather as opposed to the soft/wrapped components of the 600.

Really looking forward to my car, but I wonder how different the handling ont the 600 is?? For the same money, the 600 has the same horsepower, a lot more torque, and much nicer interior. While i understand differentiating the models, I can't imagine cutting any corners on a $140k car

If the 600 were avail with the AMG body styling from the factory(i imagine you can fit it yourself if you want) i'd be very tempted

sprink49

If I were spending that sum of $ I would get exactly what I wanted. Just for kicks, ask your sales people what they could do for you with regard to putting an AMG body kit on a S600. Expect the add on to be with 100% margin. Once you get a price with and with out...ask some local high end custom body shops what they would do it for.

You never know...you might get exactly what you want.

srice

Turtle:

I think you're missing something here. I think you will find the S600 to be great in a straight line, and very luxurius, but it's going to be more of a "boat" on the road. The S63 is much more of a "driver's car," and there won't be any comparison in the twisties.

That being said, you should never make this expensive of a decision with any doubt. If your dealer has an S600, drive it right before or after an S63. I think the decision will be pretty obvious - one way or the other.

There have been a couple of threads about the interior of various S-Class models. Personally, I don't have any issues with the S63 interior. I find it very, very nice. Maybe, if you compare it side-by-side to an S600, you might see a difference, but no one is going to get into an S63 and say it's anything but beautiful.

turtle10250

Thanks for the input SRICE, very helpful.

Did you have a chance to compare the 2 -- curious how different the handling is

Chucky300

THE handling should be pretty close to the same.

The S63, S600, and S65 have ABC as standard. Perhaps the S63/S65 ABC are tuned slightly more towards performance than an S600 or S550 with ABC.

However, i really can NOT imagine it being THAT MUCH of a difference in terms of "the twisties" being better taken in an S63 vs an S600 with high performance tires.

I am willing to bet that anyone here with an S550 Sport w/ ABC and the Active Seats will not feel a real difference in the HANDLING if comparing it to an S63.

However, the POWER AND BRAKING would be a different story - and there is NO comparison.

whoover

The tires and wheels make a tremendous difference in handling. You can go a long way by swapping the stock S600 rubber (255/45 R18 front and 275/45 R18 rear) with the S63 setup (255/35 ZR20 front and 275/35 ZR20 rear). Whether the AMGs actually have minor suspension geometry mods to optimize for the lower-profile tires is another question.

Chucky300

Well thats why I said S550 SPORT (with AMG package... 19" wheels/tires) and ABC - to try to compare it from a suspension and rubber point of view.

I am relatively certain AMG cars have the calibrated version of ABC - making them a bit more stiff in the bends - but certainly NOT to the point where its "night and day" as some may boast.

Its really to do with the ENGINE and BRAKING capabilities that make all the difference.

WSH

Had '07 CL600; now have CL63....dramatic difference....

600 has advantage in mid-range tq; much better interior leather....

63 dwarfs 600 overall, esp in: steering precision; brake pedal feel; chassis stability/balance in twisties; exhaust note; thick-rimmed, all-leather sport steering wheel; latest-tech sports seats.....

Even if 600 had a poseur body kit/wheels, it still has girlie brake calipers, exhausts, seats, steering wheel, ABC/steering calibration, etc....it's a 70yo+ codger's car after all

And S65 has the codgerly wood steering wheel; no paddle shifters; no ABC/shiftspeed/throttle resp link to Manual mode (unlike CL63/65).....and no Intelligent headlights/hidden TeleAid antenna (lagging behind CL tech again)....

Am getting CL65 in Fall; will be interesting to see if better mid-range tq/higher-grade leather will win overall vs CL63's lighter nose and more engaging exhaust note....

srice

I love a good spirited debate! How cool is it that we get to debate the merits of such fine automobiles.

WSH: Thanks for your insights.

It would make sense that if you add the bigger wheels / tires to the S600 (or the S550 for that matter) it would improve handling. The 20" wheels on the S63, and then the further tuning of the suspension with the 030 package make a setup that I think would be hard for any other S class to match - ABC or no.

Damn this is fun!

Chucky300

[QUOTE=WSH;2275445]Had '07 CL600; now have CL63....dramatic difference....

As far as ENGINE and Leather appointments, it has always been established the the 600 will be the winner. MUCH higher torque in general put it as the winner. That was always the argument between buyers of the 63 vs 600 series. Since the AMG Sport package is NOT available on the S600 - it leaves only 2 options (since an S550 is not considered an option. Either the S65, which is WAY OUT of price bracket.... or the S63... which is amazing, except for the short in the way of torque.

It absolutely would dwarf the 600 in the areas you said. That was never disputed. The 600 comes standard with 18" wheels I believe and All Season Tires. Put that up against ANY comparable car, but with 19" or 20" wheels married to High performance Summer Tires....and the performance gap widens subtantially. That is why the Chassis and Stability Balance is better in the S63. It may also have something to do with a calibrated ABC Suspension, but I wouldnt put all my eggs in that basket.

As for the Exhaust Note - it is tuned to make a lot more noise than a 600. This is a positive for AMG drivers. Of course Who would NOT want to hear that growl Sounds like a WW2 fighter plane. I luv it! The S600 was geared more for cruising so the sound was subdued. You can change the exhaust to make more of a sound, but I dont know what the point of that is.

As for the Thick rimmed, All leather sport steering wheel...it is entirely subjective. My opinion? Its the hottest wheel on the market. BUT.... for those that want an S550 or S600 - I would bet most would want the Leather Wood Steering wheel. Most of the S550s I have seen have them put on as Options (and it is standard on the S600).

As for the Sports Seats... I sat in them ... UNBELIEVABLE. Very comfortable, and I think they are perfect for THAT car. But for someone like my father, who would choose a car for pure lux and comfort, would choose a 600 - if only to get the more comfortable, not so sporty seats.

I must differ here. If you look at the brake numbers... the 600 is pretty darn amazing. Exhausts are SPECIFICALLY tuned not to sound like a bat out of hell. The steering wheel is gorgeous - I have the Wood Leather one - and its really amazing - and i dont think I have heard one complaint about the workmanship. It really adds a nice tone to the car. I have ABC on my car - and so does Nevada Jack - and many others I know... no one complains that is anything less than perfection. The 600 is not a 70yo+ Codger car. Its for the driver that wants the best of the best - but does not want to have a 70% sport oriented car with only 30% intended directly to Luxury/comfort.

True - S65 is missing some stuff - and for $190K - i would the option list would be for paint color and interior color only. Are you sure teh ABC and Speedshift is not directed Manual Mode? I sat in the S65 and there are 3 settings. S, C and M......... M being what you are saying is NOT in the car.


Well - if it is anything like the SL 65 vs SL 55 comparison. I read in one of the car magazines, that the SL 55 had a better lap time, everytime, due to the lighter nose, making it easier to hall around a corner on a track.

usctrojans1

Chucky300 hit the nail on the head. I definitely prefer the s600's interior finish to that of the s63. As far as performance is concerned, I think you really can't discount the s600. The torque is what is important.

I am becoming a MBworld addict.

Chucky300

thank you. I think thats been the general feeling...... There IS a reason Mercedes will not offer a sports package (AMG PACKAGE) on the S600.... 100% - no one would buy an S63 AMG if they could get the S600 - Same BHP - BETTER interior.... SAME BRAKES.... SAME tires... Maybe a SLIGHTLY less calibrated ABC suspension, but nonetheless, the same suspension setup..... for maybe $10K more...... but fully loaded

transferred

Same brakes?

Chucky300

I stand corrected. I have provided the actual brake information.

S63 AMG Brakes
Brakes AMG-enhanced 4-wheel disc brakes. 15.4" compound, perforated, and ventilated front discs with AMG dual sliding calipers. 14.4" perforated and ventilated rear discs with AMG dual sliding calipers
70mph - 0mph in 154 feet

S600 Brakes
Brakes Dual-circuit power-assisted 4-wheel disc brakes. 14.2" ventilated, cross-drilled front discs and 13" ventilated, rear discs. 8-piston fixed calipers on front and 4-piston fixed calipers on rear.

I am curious to see the S600 70-0mph road requirement........ If we are talking a few feet - its probably not a big concern.

transferred

True, but braking is ultmately tire limited. The AMG brakes would show their worth on repeated stops and it's good peace of mind to know you have the best, especially when the family is on board.

Chucky300

definitely.

A friend of mine has an SL600 2007 and said the braking is absolutely mindblowing to the point where he thought he busted them in a panic stop. It sorta LATCHED ON and the darn car stopped dead in its tracks.

I just called him and mentioned the S63AMG has stronger brakes than his SL600 - and he said - it may be the case, but there is NO WAY IN HELL anyone would actually need better than those on the S600 unless you are literally doing 205mph and realize that in 200ft from where you are - there stands a wall

srice

I understand the Union Pacific Railroad is retrofitting all their trains with S63/S65 brakes.

whoover

The 125-65 braking time of the 65 brakes has saved my bacon a couple of times.

Carl Lassiter

I bet. Those things are HUGE.

Brakes are the achilles heal of M cars. The M5 is a great vehicle but single piston calipers means brake fade comes in fast and it's in contrast to AMGs which have improved so much in this area, the S8 offers ceramics and the RS4 has 8 piston stoppers. I've taken an M3 CS around the track and they started to grind and complain pretty darn quickly.

BTW, Whoover- Any plans to mod your S65. I love the wheels and bodywork but the thought of a very easy 700bhp must be a temptation?

juicee63

Good to see a more thorough debate on the S63Vs 600. I knew once more folks drove the 63 there would be more support for the platform. My brakes are INCREDIBLE as well. I believe the S63 attracts a completely different buyer. Congrats on the incredible rides. Enjoy. Get that sedan on a TRACK!! WOOOHOOOOOOO, go SRICE go!

LetsJet

I'm not sure wat you mean......" when the family is on board" I can't see how you would need larger brakes when the family is on board unless you drive like a maniac. Think about it.... The only time I can see the larger brakes being an advantage is if you are doing a lot of heavy braking like on a track where you will have a lot of heat. When you are driving on the street and you need to stop suddenly, the S600 brakes are plenty big enough to stop you.... Esp. because the ABS system is going to kick in anyway most likely.....

Carl Lassiter

Taking a not so wild guess I would assume he means that it's never more important that your brakes work well when your wife and kids are on board.

It's a humanity thing not a technical thing.

turtle10250

I for one agree with Chucky -- as much as I am looking forward to the arrival of my 63, if I could have had the same look in the 600 with better interior, better torque, etc for $10k more I would have likely gone down that path.

I'm sure you could get hold of the bodykit if you want to (check out the attached, an S600 with full body kit including side vents not included in S550 kit -- relabelled as an S65) but by the time you go to the trouble and expense you might as well have bought an original S65

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Merce...29255510QQrdZ1

Chucky300

To Learjet's defense.... I think he was questioning why someone would travel at such high speeds with the family in the car (meaning wife and some kids) - under any circusmtance. With or Without AMG Brakes.

Dont think he meant anything bad by the post - just wondering why the highspeed would even be a possibilty with "the family on board"

Carl Lassiter

Understood, but if you look at "transferred's" post, he never said he would be travelling at "high speed" with the family. If you think about, even at 35mph you want to have the best brakes.