iceman4149

Are the stock wheels on the S55 amg forged?

If so what are the weight of this wheels?

Thanks in advance.

Addicted2Speed

Nope, they are very heavy cast wheels. Don't know the exact weight, but over 30lbs.

TMC M5

Is that also true for the 2005-2006 65 wheels?

Tom

OLDSCHOOLRICE

True as well. AMG wheels are extreemly heavy even the stock SLR wheels are very heavy.

Addicted2Speed

I believe the only forged wheels on AMG's are wheels on Black Series models. The rest are cast, even the 030 package wheels.

TMC M5

That is interesting...I was looking at AMG accessory catalog...they refer to all their wheels as "light-alloy". I find that "funny" considering they are apparently all cast. "Light" in comparison to what....iron wheels?

Tom

mercar

I know this is an old dead thread, but this is the exact topic that I have been trying to find answer without success for past hour. My S55 has what the Mercedes Wheels Catalog lists as AMG light-alloy Style IV wheel. The weight of this wheel is 14.7Kg for the front (19 x 8.5) and 15.4Kg for the rear (19 x 9.5). It is made by BBS in Germany. So is the style III in new condition that I can buy to replace.

I haven't unsuccessful to find any authoritative source to say whether "light-alloy" wheels are cast or forged. Interestingly in the non-AMG wheels selection there are a few wheels where they do mention them as being forged. On the net and user forum I found conflicting information with some claiming all AMG wheels are forged. Both AMG style III and IV which were stock for S55 and CL55 are two piece (you can see the rivets where the rim is bolted to the hub). From their weight which is more than 30lbs, I highly doubt that they are forged. Most of the forged wheels are less than 25lbs (more in 21lbs range) at 19" size.

I have also been trying to search why Mercedes put such heavy OEM wheels, when technology was available to make lighter wheels. If it was the cost, at greater than $120K price tag small price difference between lighter forged wheel and heavier light-alloy wheels wouldn't have mattered to the buyer of the car. It wasn't even an option. From the price perspective, a new light-alloy wheel is still expensive than similar size forged wheel from BBS.

Still trying to get answer to the two questions:

1. What technology was used in the AMG light-alloy wheels in 2000s
2. Why were the wheels so heavy! After all these were performance cars!

maw1124

I always thought the AMG III and AMG IV were cast in 18", forged in 19". I have the 19" 2-piece as well, and thought they were forged. Didn't realize they were so heavy. And, although my car came with the 2-pc 19" AMG IVs, I too have often thought of replacing them for 2-pc 19" AMG III or 2-pc 19" AMG VI. See here ...

http://www.alloywheelsdirect.net/mer...ss_w220_alloys

These folks tell me all 2-piece are cast. As for why not forged? I would guess durability. Forging is softer. But that's a guess.

Also, I can't imagine they were going for weight savings in any SClass Sedan or Coupe. At 4300 lbs, the W220 series cars are still light compared to, e.g., the W221/216 chassis cars, and we're not even going to talk about the Bentleys GTSpeed.

maw

mercar

The ones I am replacing are also AMG IV. Spoke to BBS who confirmed all those were cast and not forged.

If you are interested in http://www.ebay.com/itm/122224144468?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT there is a guy on ebay selling almost new in mint conditions for $2K. They look good of wheels that came off a new car with less than 10K miles on it. My one concern was that they are from a 2006 car, so what they been doing for 11 years sitting somewhere!

amstel78

Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not a metallurgist, but shouldn't forged steel or aluminum be stronger than cast steel or aluminum? My only experience with this has been when working with various firearm parts. Most cast parts I've come across have a slightly softer rockwell hardness. The forged parts have lesser surface porosity, tighter grain structure, and generally higher tensile strength. Surface hardness was also greater in forged parts than cast.

maw1124

That's what I always thought as well. But every wheel expeert I've talked to (I'm in discussions to start a wheel company) has said the direct opposite. They won't crack as much, but they will bend, which is just as bad. The benefit of forging is weight savings -- the same strength with less material through a different process. Here, that wasn't compelling -- these aren't race cars, and they see potholes. It gets worse with the two piece wheels -- vibration through the components. Talk to people about refurbishing multipiece wheels and you get all types of horror stories -- studs breaking off, hairline cracks around the holes, etc. Not my area of expertise, but I'm trying to learn.

I have no doubt that if AMG were left to their devices, we'd have super light forged (fragile) wheels. My guess is MB wouldn't go with that.

maw

compaddict

iTrader: (1)

And they are soft as hell too. All four of my 2005 S55 were bent when I bought the car two years ago. Three were bent on my 2011 S63! Needless to say.. I don't pound over speedbumps anymore!

mercar

That is interesting. I am weighing between low pressure cast (which are much cheaper) and flow forming or forged. As you mentioned the advantage of forged is that they are lighter since they have same strength while using less material. What do they say about monoblocks? Are all monoblocks forged?

It doesn't tell me about their performance on the normal road. Any idea on what experts say on why they are more prone to bending?

mercar

Were they the original OEM wheels?

maw1124

All monoblocks are not forged. Monoblock just means made from one block of metal. That could be a cast block or a forged block, then the wheel design is cut out of it. Depending upon the alloy, it'll be heavy and resist bending of cracking (steel, a la cop cruisers), or aluminum (lighter and stronger, but softer).

Have a look here ... http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/....jsp?techid=90

Flow forming is basically replacing forging for wheel production, and that link does a decent job of explaining why. By the way, I also think it does a good job of why most people pay way too much money for performance wheels that greatly exceed any reasonable expectation of how they'll use their car. Once I began to really understand wheels (from guys who actually race cars and own racing teams), I understood I really didn't need to replace the OEM ones, unless I actually needed to (as in cracked, bent, etc.).

If I were you, I'd go for those AMG IIIs and call it a day. I think they're going to look better than almost anything else, give your car a very classic, period correct look (especially if your car is Brilliant Silver), and a timeless style that befits the performance of the car. Unless you tell me you're about to strip out the interior in favor of a roll cage and enter the car in a cannonball (which I actually know people have done)...

maw

compaddict

iTrader: (1)

Yes on both cars. Crazy for California roads!

mercar

I would have gone for the original AMG wheels (my first preference), but they are way too costly and my current experience has been negative with the ones I have on my car. I can get equivalent quality wheels in the aftermarket for less than half the price. Including from BBS which also manufactured those AMG III wheels.