Are stock s55 Wheels forged?
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'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
That is interesting...I was looking at AMG accessory catalog...they refer to all their wheels as "light-alloy". I find that "funny" considering they are apparently all cast. "Light" in comparison to what....iron wheels?
Tom
Tom
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190E, C280, S55
I know this is an old dead thread, but this is the exact topic that I have been trying to find answer without success for past hour. My S55 has what the Mercedes Wheels Catalog lists as AMG light-alloy Style IV wheel. The weight of this wheel is 14.7Kg for the front (19 x 8.5) and 15.4Kg for the rear (19 x 9.5). It is made by BBS in Germany. So is the style III in new condition that I can buy to replace.
I haven't unsuccessful to find any authoritative source to say whether "light-alloy" wheels are cast or forged. Interestingly in the non-AMG wheels selection there are a few wheels where they do mention them as being forged. On the net and user forum I found conflicting information with some claiming all AMG wheels are forged. Both AMG style III and IV which were stock for S55 and CL55 are two piece (you can see the rivets where the rim is bolted to the hub). From their weight which is more than 30lbs, I highly doubt that they are forged. Most of the forged wheels are less than 25lbs (more in 21lbs range) at 19" size.
I have also been trying to search why Mercedes put such heavy OEM wheels, when technology was available to make lighter wheels. If it was the cost, at greater than $120K price tag small price difference between lighter forged wheel and heavier light-alloy wheels wouldn't have mattered to the buyer of the car. It wasn't even an option. From the price perspective, a new light-alloy wheel is still expensive than similar size forged wheel from BBS.
Still trying to get answer to the two questions:
1. What technology was used in the AMG light-alloy wheels in 2000s
2. Why were the wheels so heavy! After all these were performance cars!
I haven't unsuccessful to find any authoritative source to say whether "light-alloy" wheels are cast or forged. Interestingly in the non-AMG wheels selection there are a few wheels where they do mention them as being forged. On the net and user forum I found conflicting information with some claiming all AMG wheels are forged. Both AMG style III and IV which were stock for S55 and CL55 are two piece (you can see the rivets where the rim is bolted to the hub). From their weight which is more than 30lbs, I highly doubt that they are forged. Most of the forged wheels are less than 25lbs (more in 21lbs range) at 19" size.
I have also been trying to search why Mercedes put such heavy OEM wheels, when technology was available to make lighter wheels. If it was the cost, at greater than $120K price tag small price difference between lighter forged wheel and heavier light-alloy wheels wouldn't have mattered to the buyer of the car. It wasn't even an option. From the price perspective, a new light-alloy wheel is still expensive than similar size forged wheel from BBS.
Still trying to get answer to the two questions:
1. What technology was used in the AMG light-alloy wheels in 2000s
2. Why were the wheels so heavy! After all these were performance cars!
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'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
I always thought the AMG III and AMG IV were cast in 18", forged in 19". I have the 19" 2-piece as well, and thought they were forged. Didn't realize they were so heavy. And, although my car came with the 2-pc 19" AMG IVs, I too have often thought of replacing them for 2-pc 19" AMG III or 2-pc 19" AMG VI. See here ...
http://www.alloywheelsdirect.net/mer...ss_w220_alloys
These folks tell me all 2-piece are cast. As for why not forged? I would guess durability. Forging is softer. But that's a guess.
Also, I can't imagine they were going for weight savings in any SClass Sedan or Coupe. At 4300 lbs, the W220 series cars are still light compared to, e.g., the W221/216 chassis cars, and we're not even going to talk about the Bentleys GTSpeed.
maw
http://www.alloywheelsdirect.net/mer...ss_w220_alloys
These folks tell me all 2-piece are cast. As for why not forged? I would guess durability. Forging is softer. But that's a guess.
Also, I can't imagine they were going for weight savings in any SClass Sedan or Coupe. At 4300 lbs, the W220 series cars are still light compared to, e.g., the W221/216 chassis cars, and we're not even going to talk about the Bentleys GTSpeed.
maw
Last edited by maw1124; Jan 26, 2017 at 01:00 PM.
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190E, C280, S55
I always thought the AMG III and AMG IV were cast in 18", forged in 19". I have the 19" 2-piece as well, and thought they were forged. Didn't realize they were so heavy. And, although my car came with the 2-pc 19" AMG IVs, I too have often thought of replacing them for 2-pc 19" AMG III or 2-pc 19" AMG VI. See here ...
http://www.alloywheelsdirect.net/mer...ss_w220_alloys
These folks tell me all 2-piece are cast. As for why not forged? I would guess durability. Forging is softer. But that's a guess.
Also, I can't imagine they were going for weight savings in any SClass Sedan or Coupe. At 4300 lbs, the W220 series cars are still light compared to, e.g., the W221/216 chassis cars, and we're not even going to talk about the Bentleys GTSpeed.
maw
http://www.alloywheelsdirect.net/mer...ss_w220_alloys
These folks tell me all 2-piece are cast. As for why not forged? I would guess durability. Forging is softer. But that's a guess.
Also, I can't imagine they were going for weight savings in any SClass Sedan or Coupe. At 4300 lbs, the W220 series cars are still light compared to, e.g., the W221/216 chassis cars, and we're not even going to talk about the Bentleys GTSpeed.
maw
If you are interested in http://www.ebay.com/itm/122224144468?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT there is a guy on ebay selling almost new in mint conditions for $2K. They look good of wheels that came off a new car with less than 10K miles on it. My one concern was that they are from a 2006 car, so what they been doing for 11 years sitting somewhere!
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2006 W220 S65 AMG
Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not a metallurgist, but shouldn't forged steel or aluminum be stronger than cast steel or aluminum? My only experience with this has been when working with various firearm parts. Most cast parts I've come across have a slightly softer rockwell hardness. The forged parts have lesser surface porosity, tighter grain structure, and generally higher tensile strength. Surface hardness was also greater in forged parts than cast.
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'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not a metallurgist, but shouldn't forged steel or aluminum be stronger than cast steel or aluminum? My only experience with this has been when working with various firearm parts. Most cast parts I've come across have a slightly softer rockwell hardness. The forged parts have lesser surface porosity, tighter grain structure, and generally higher tensile strength. Surface hardness was also greater in forged parts than cast.
I have no doubt that if AMG were left to their devices, we'd have super light forged (fragile) wheels. My guess is MB wouldn't go with that.
maw
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From: Auburn, CA USA
2016 S63, 2013 SL63
And they are soft as hell too. All four of my 2005 S55 were bent when I bought the car two years ago. Three were bent on my 2011 S63! Needless to say.. I don't pound over speedbumps anymore!
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190E, C280, S55
That's what I always thought as well. But every wheel expeert I've talked to (I'm in discussions to start a wheel company) has said the direct opposite. They won't crack as much, but they will bend, which is just as bad. The benefit of forging is weight savings -- the same strength with less material through a different process. Here, that wasn't compelling -- these aren't race cars, and they see potholes. It gets worse with the two piece wheels -- vibration through the components. Talk to people about refurbishing multipiece wheels and you get all types of horror stories -- studs breaking off, hairline cracks around the holes, etc. Not my area of expertise, but I'm trying to learn.
I have no doubt that if AMG were left to their devices, we'd have super light forged (fragile) wheels. My guess is MB wouldn't go with that.
maw
I have no doubt that if AMG were left to their devices, we'd have super light forged (fragile) wheels. My guess is MB wouldn't go with that.
maw
It doesn't tell me about their performance on the normal road. Any idea on what experts say on why they are more prone to bending?
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190E, C280, S55
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'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
That is interesting. I am weighing between low pressure cast (which are much cheaper) and flow forming or forged. As you mentioned the advantage of forged is that they are lighter since they have same strength while using less material. What do they say about monoblocks? Are all monoblocks forged?
It doesn't tell me about their performance on the normal road. Any idea on what experts say on why they are more prone to bending?
It doesn't tell me about their performance on the normal road. Any idea on what experts say on why they are more prone to bending?
Have a look here ... http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/....jsp?techid=90
Flow forming is basically replacing forging for wheel production, and that link does a decent job of explaining why. By the way, I also think it does a good job of why most people pay way too much money for performance wheels that greatly exceed any reasonable expectation of how they'll use their car. Once I began to really understand wheels (from guys who actually race cars and own racing teams), I understood I really didn't need to replace the OEM ones, unless I actually needed to (as in cracked, bent, etc.).
If I were you, I'd go for those AMG IIIs and call it a day. I think they're going to look better than almost anything else, give your car a very classic, period correct look (especially if your car is Brilliant Silver), and a timeless style that befits the performance of the car. Unless you tell me you're about to strip out the interior in favor of a roll cage and enter the car in a cannonball (which I actually know people have done)...
maw
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Joined: Oct 2012
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190E, C280, S55
If I were you, I'd go for those AMG IIIs and call it a day. I think they're going to look better than almost anything else, give your car a very classic, period correct look (especially if your car is Brilliant Silver), and a timeless style that befits the performance of the car. Unless you tell me you're about to strip out the interior in favor of a roll cage and enter the car in a cannonball (which I actually know people have done)...
maw
maw
