big12

Want the BAD NEWS? My S65 V12 engine requires a rebuild at 30,000 km.
(20,000 miles) because of excessive oil consumption, etc. Presently about a quart every 1,000 km. Bad enough M/B flagship blows an engine, they want it rebuilt at local 'reconditioning shop' in Toronto, not sent back to Affalterbach, Germany. I am not amused!

i_am_amused

I Am Amused!

but not by your situation. Sorry, dude. I hope Canadiens can read German

irieblue

Hmm, There are various levels of rebuild... I was talking to my SA this past week regarding their mechanics ability to work on the SLR and AMG vehicles. In Northern California where my dealer is located, they have moved a couple SLR's and several AMG's. He said that the only rebuild they did was on an S65 where they had to change some O-rings on the turbos because of excessive oil consumption. I would be very surprised if in your case, they have to do a full tear the motor out.. I even believe there is a bulletin about excessive oil consumption on the S65 motor.. Sounds like they want to scare you into bending over....

Have they told you exactly what this rebuild will entail? What exactly are they sending out to be re-built?

bigben320e

Damn that sucks. The car is under warranty, the only upside I see. Post back results.

big12

Yes, compression readings vary from 150 to 200 psi. They want to tear down the motor, then call AMG. Problem is the car was partially broken down for diagnostics. I am now stuck. I fell that a "Local" rebuild is unlikely to match the factory quality or durability. Mercedes is well aware of my opinion, but is unwavering in their decision of local repair. They simple do not care. All should take note

big12

Mercedes tells me their policy is any motor over 5,000 km goes for a rebuild. So you can be driving a C220, or an SL65 they claim its the same policy. Hard to believe. Any one else required a rebuild?

WSH

Which MY is your 65? Yours since new? What are lemon laws in Canada?

I have several colleagues who had earlier new 65s (MY04-MY07) who each had 65s bought back for lemon issues related to motor; but these were major repeat AMG customers at major dealers, so process was rather seamless and cordial and required no use of US' customer-friendly lemon laws (and these guys have since bought new 65s in more recent times with no issues)

My '09 CL65 has ~6K mis and has been flawless and I plan to trade it for new '10 CL65 in Sept (am now an admitted 65 addict; after accustomed to 65 tq, hard to drive any lesser AMG/F/P)

Every car has a lemon rate (but suspect new 65s are generally more reliable than new 599s or GT2/3); what matters is how one's dealer manages the relationship and makes process seamless; good luck with an unfortunate situation

DoctorV8

I just turned in my '05 CL65 with 46000 trouble free miles. Car used a quart every 3000 miles. Please keep up posted on your progress.....hopefully they will come through for you.

blackbenzz

^ you have QUITE the nice selection of cars


It sucks that you need a rebuild after such low mileage. I could only imagine what the repair bill would look like if it were out of warranty!

big12

No lemon laws in Canada. Indications costs in excess of $50,000 to replace motor which probably explains why M/B wants to rebuild instead.

Reckless

Do they have this kind of problem with the 600 motor?

nick 55

I had to quote an S65 engine one time, it was $95000 US. I would say that the M275 engine is pretty solid, but it isn't uncommon for them to use some oil. Given the nature of the engine, I wouldn't call that a problem.

Nick

big12

My S65 was a 2006. As said, no Lemon Laws in Canada. "lemon issues related to motor" Anything more specific on this? My compression problem is likely rings, leading to oil consumption. Waiting for results, if they tell me.

bimmer7

BMW replaced our tranny and engine under warranty on a 5 year old 745 in 2007!

The car had over 90,000KM

I dont know where mercedes came up with the rebuild policy?

Are you sure they arent going to warranty the engine, if its something due to owner negligence then you are responsible.

But if the car has some manufacturer's defect mercedes should take care of it.

I would say take this issue up directly with Marcus, MB Canada.

You are obviously, a loyal customer and driving a top of the line vehicle that mercedes has present in its sedan lineup!

absent

Do you have some inferiority complex or something?
In almost every post you try to to compare a big family sedan ( great daily driver btw) that the S65 is,to dedicated sports and GT cars like Porsches and Ferraris, trying to convince everyone how inferior they are next to your drive du jour.
I remember when you had CL63 (supposedly) and claimed all 65 series were pieces of junk that all your friends who (supposedly) had them, had to have them bought back by MB.

transferred

He won't address your post just like he never addresses posts asking for pics (or even one pic of one of the 100 new AMG's he has leased in the last five years).

Total loony tunes this one, always there to talk about the inferior safety tech of a "POS plasticky S550", BMW 7-series, A8 vs an AMG S/CL (though the 63 has "embarrassingly low amounts of TQ" to quote WSH).

Did you know the S65 has better traction in the snow than a Range Rover, not to mention an Abhrams tank....

absent

You are absolutely right,some of his posts were amusing but they are getting a bit tiresome lately....

blahuh

The dtb for oil consumption on 275 engines states, r&r spark plugs, inspect cylinder walls, if no scoring exists, replace piston rings and turbos, if scoring exists, replace engine. Now if the dealer is a little gun shy with the dtb like my dealer is, they may tear down the engine and try to pinpoint the source of oil consumption like we have in the past. I wouldnt worry to much, the only "rebuild" they will do is replace piston rings and turbos, hopefully the cylinder walls are scored and they will get you a new engine from AMG.

Klinh

No way. It would be much much more then $50K for a new engine. My CL 55 NA AMG engine retail for $45K.

nick 55

I can't speak from experience in Canada, but here in the US, if an AMG V12 has an oil consumption issue, there are only a couple steps taken before replacing the entire engine. There could be some partial engine tear down, like others said, as the engine costs about $92000 before labor for MB's warranty claims, and they want to make DAMN sure they know what is cause for the engine to be replaced. Either way, be thankful you have a warranty, and aside from being without your beautiful sedan for a little while, it will turn out alright. If something drastic and bad happens, you can always ship the car down to me to make it right.

Nick

big12

"there are only a couple steps taken before replacing the entire engine. There could be some partial engine tear down"

Nick: Can you please be more specific. The motor is presently at the 'Reconditioning Center' and I am waiting for the results. Does the M/B have nikasil treated cylinders like Porsche and BMW? My understanding is this would eliminate any chance hone the cylinder and insert oversize rings. Apparently one of my cylinders had scoring, so they either replace the block, or the cylinder. Either way, it does not strike me as an AMG engine made (or rebuilt) in Germany. BMW Service Manager has told me that this would NOT happen with their cars, motor would have been replaced. I am still amazed by the actions of Mercedes. They are not offering any extended warranty on the 'rebuilt' motor.

MBZFAN55

I have added more oil to my "63" engine in 29000 miles than I have added in total to the last 6 vehicles I have owned, and yet everyone connected to this issue tells me the same thing, "It's normal for the AMG engines...." In the last 15k, the rate of oil addition has declined so maybe the worst is over.

Regarding the WSH commentary, although I find him a bit eccentric and slightly reminiscent of some ClayJ posts of several years ago, I really don't object to his repetitively pointed posts. He obviously believes very strongly in what he says and possibly his "girly brakes" comments are somewhat responsible for the upgraded brakes on the 2010 S600. Because he doesn't post pictures does this make him a non-entity to post ? Am I missing something here?

TMC M5

I would agree with you about WSH if I could overlook his hypocrisy. As others pointed out, he thought his CL63 was best thing since sliced bread and called the 65 engine "old technology...like an obsolete cell phone". Now all of a sudden he has a CL65 and it is wonderful and technologically advanced. His only consistent commentary is his disdain for Porsches and Ferraris...of course until he acquires one (at least for his virtual persona).

Tom

nick 55

First off, let me state that I only know procedures that apply to the US, and I do not have firm knowledge of the way MB of Canada performs warranty repairs. I have personally never heard of a reconditioning center. If I were you, I would contact MB Canada and ask them if you could get some answers, as you are concerned that your AMG built engine is apart and you want to ensure that your car will be returned to you repaired as per the proper procedures to ensure that you do not have issues down the road. I know you don't have a lemon law, and I don't feel it is even applicable in your case, but with oil consumption, and a block being scored, if the car was a US vehicle, you would get a brand new, AMG built crate engine installed in your vehicle. You can't get an AMG block to rebuild and engine, and it sounds like the dealership is trying to take a cheaper route. The block is Nikasil treated, and there are no cylinder sleeves to be replaced.


Nick

big12

I was finally contacted by M/B USA Customer Relations in response to my letters, and they claim M/B Canada is following the proper procedure, i.e., examine motor at local approved 'AMG' reconditioning center, and perform necessary repairs. Apparently they are in the middle of "rebuilding" my motor at this time. Not sure how you correct a scored cylinder without replacement. I have requested the actual details of what is being performed.
My understanding is that all the cost is absorbed by M/B Germany (via M/B USA) under the warranty so not sure what you are referring to in the Dealership taking the cheaper route. I think this is simply M/B Germany saving money. I remain very sceptical, but letters to M/B Germany have been futile. My options are limited at this point. Perhaps a word to the wise here. I will post details of motor work performed when advised.
Thanks for your opinions, Nick.