65 ECU UPGRADE- BE AWARE OF FEDOR DEZYN (VADIM)...
08-15-2009, 11:19 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
65 ECU UPGRADE- BE AWARE OF FEDOR DEZYN (VADIM)...
This is a long story, so I'll try and keep it as simple as possible. I drive an '06 S65 and spent several months on here doing research and talking to people before choosing a tuner to upgrade my ECU.
Kleemann was my first choice....they were the cheapest, offered a very short turn around and Cory was extremely knowledgeable and patient with my questions. I sent off the ECU and received it back within 2 days just as they promised. After several dyno pulls and a trip to the local strip, it turns out the upgrade actually made slightly less power and yielded a slower ET. Not much- maybe 10-15hp and a couple of tenths. I called Cory and explained the issue.....he assured me it was no problem and to send it back and they would get it right the second time. So off it goes again to Colorado. A second try brought me back to stock numbers .....~525-530rwhp and 11.60-11.70 ET's @ 120ish. I actually lost a few mph. I called Cory again and explained that I wasn't happy with the results and asked for a refund, which he gladly agreed to. My money was refunded within a day and he flashed it back to stock for free. Let me be clear here, I have "0" issues with Kleemann. They were great to deal with, I just wish their program would have worked.
I wasn't ready to give up yet and called Vadim after hearing about him on this forum. I explicitly explained to him the situation with Kleemann and asked him if he could do anything better?? Can you actually get the ECU upgrade to work?? What are you going to do differently? What can I expect?? etc.... So, after a long conversation with Vadim I sent off my ECU for a 4th time. The programing took almost a week and at this stage I've just about had it with this entire process. I get it back and guess what?? Same thing. My car goes mid-high 11's and traps 120-121 with absolutely zero change in performance and it dynoed 525rwhp. For the record, my car bone stock dynoed 530rwhp and ran consistent 11.6x's at 121-122 (on DR's). It went 11.5x's on several occassions and trapped as high as 123.
So, I call Vadim from the track and give him the scoop- he's baffled, I'm baffled....what now? I get home and we chat some more.....suddenly it seems as if he has the answer..."oh, you were in dyno mode when running it??......that's a totally different map than the normal street mode." This sounded strange to me as I've always dragged my car in dyno mode, but he's the expert, not me. Then he also tells me to leave my car in "normal" mode while in the dyno- which I didn't think would work either because of the t/c system. But, at this point I'll try anything. So, I head to the track again, and the dyno again....and it's the same story....identical results from the previous visits. And as I thought, you can't dyno the car in normal street mode. I felt a bit retarded even tyring, but whatever.
After multiple conversations with Vadim and after multiple visits to the track/dyno on my days off (both are over an hour from my house) I called Vadim and explained that I had done everything he had asked me to. I even went as far as to buy a Scantron and monitored my intake temps to make sure the I/C pump wasn't bad. I tried dyno mode, street mode, tried the same dyno 3 times and the same track twice......the end result is again, zero.
I tell Vadim that I'm done being a test car and that I'm done sending off my ECU in "hopes" of him getting it right.....and he really couldn't tell me what they were going to do differently a second time. I ask for a refund and for a stock ECU flash....which he gladly agreed to. He asked me to send the ECU to him and he'd re-flash it and then refund my CC. So off it goes. I was told it would take 2 days....on day 4 I called Vadim to get an update......he proceeds to tell me that my ECU "should be" in the mail with a "new" program in it.....but he would have to call Powerchip to find out. I asked about our agreement???....the refund and the stock re-flash???....and explained that I absolutely, positively, did NOT want another modified tune in my ECU. I wanted what he promised me....a refund and a stock ECU. Suddenly he tells me, and I quote, "I don't have any money.....I don't have enough money to give you a refund.....I don't have $2,500!! Sorry! Powerchip won't give me a refund, so I can't give you one." I explained to him that's between you and Powerchip, but someone's going to give me back my $2500. He basically went quiet and ignored my calls the next few days. I sent him a very cordial email requesting a refund.....he passes the buck and basically refers me to Powerchip. Vadim completely went back on his word and did not honor what he said he would. I wasn't asking for a lot, just what I paid for- that's it. When the track and the dyno didn't net one single ounce of an improvement over stock numbers I asked for a refund. He continually pushed all the issues to Powerchip and basically accepted no responsibility for a product that HE, as an employee of VRP sold me. I didn't send Powerchip $2500, I didn't mail my ECU to Powechip, I didn't spend hours on the phone with Powerchip, I wasn't convinced that this ECU upgrade would work by Powerchip.....but by Vadim at VRP.
It was a complete disaster.....I won't get into the business trip I missed due to Vadim taking 6 days to send me my ECU back, the hundreds of dollars spent on dyno pulls, over-night shipping, and a rental car......or the hours of of my time spent at track or in a dyno room.
I just wanted you guys to know my experience. I'm sure plenty here have had a good experience with him.....but this is MY story and my personal experience. Before you yank out your ECU and send it off to anyone, do yourself a favor and do before/after comparisons on the same dyno and the same track. These online testimonies to "wow, it feels so much better".. and..."I can totally feel a difference" ........really?? Don't be so sure. You'd be surprised at what you "want" to feel after cutting a $2500 check. And, make sure that your tuner has a cash reserve of $2500 so he can actually give you a refund after he tells you he will.
End result- I had to have Amex go after Vadim for my money.....and he had no response to them either. Apparently, it's difficult to simply pay for a service and expect to get what you paid for. Be careful who you deal with guys.
If there's ever a tuner that can mod my ECU, put my car on a dyno and show me the ~40-60rwhp and 100+ft lbs of torque increase I'd buy it tomorrow. But, I'm 0 for 2 as of now. I've been told by several that RennTech is the only way to go??
-Busa196-
Kleemann was my first choice....they were the cheapest, offered a very short turn around and Cory was extremely knowledgeable and patient with my questions. I sent off the ECU and received it back within 2 days just as they promised. After several dyno pulls and a trip to the local strip, it turns out the upgrade actually made slightly less power and yielded a slower ET. Not much- maybe 10-15hp and a couple of tenths. I called Cory and explained the issue.....he assured me it was no problem and to send it back and they would get it right the second time. So off it goes again to Colorado. A second try brought me back to stock numbers .....~525-530rwhp and 11.60-11.70 ET's @ 120ish. I actually lost a few mph. I called Cory again and explained that I wasn't happy with the results and asked for a refund, which he gladly agreed to. My money was refunded within a day and he flashed it back to stock for free. Let me be clear here, I have "0" issues with Kleemann. They were great to deal with, I just wish their program would have worked.
I wasn't ready to give up yet and called Vadim after hearing about him on this forum. I explicitly explained to him the situation with Kleemann and asked him if he could do anything better?? Can you actually get the ECU upgrade to work?? What are you going to do differently? What can I expect?? etc.... So, after a long conversation with Vadim I sent off my ECU for a 4th time. The programing took almost a week and at this stage I've just about had it with this entire process. I get it back and guess what?? Same thing. My car goes mid-high 11's and traps 120-121 with absolutely zero change in performance and it dynoed 525rwhp. For the record, my car bone stock dynoed 530rwhp and ran consistent 11.6x's at 121-122 (on DR's). It went 11.5x's on several occassions and trapped as high as 123.
So, I call Vadim from the track and give him the scoop- he's baffled, I'm baffled....what now? I get home and we chat some more.....suddenly it seems as if he has the answer..."oh, you were in dyno mode when running it??......that's a totally different map than the normal street mode." This sounded strange to me as I've always dragged my car in dyno mode, but he's the expert, not me. Then he also tells me to leave my car in "normal" mode while in the dyno- which I didn't think would work either because of the t/c system. But, at this point I'll try anything. So, I head to the track again, and the dyno again....and it's the same story....identical results from the previous visits. And as I thought, you can't dyno the car in normal street mode. I felt a bit retarded even tyring, but whatever.
After multiple conversations with Vadim and after multiple visits to the track/dyno on my days off (both are over an hour from my house) I called Vadim and explained that I had done everything he had asked me to. I even went as far as to buy a Scantron and monitored my intake temps to make sure the I/C pump wasn't bad. I tried dyno mode, street mode, tried the same dyno 3 times and the same track twice......the end result is again, zero.
I tell Vadim that I'm done being a test car and that I'm done sending off my ECU in "hopes" of him getting it right.....and he really couldn't tell me what they were going to do differently a second time. I ask for a refund and for a stock ECU flash....which he gladly agreed to. He asked me to send the ECU to him and he'd re-flash it and then refund my CC. So off it goes. I was told it would take 2 days....on day 4 I called Vadim to get an update......he proceeds to tell me that my ECU "should be" in the mail with a "new" program in it.....but he would have to call Powerchip to find out. I asked about our agreement???....the refund and the stock re-flash???....and explained that I absolutely, positively, did NOT want another modified tune in my ECU. I wanted what he promised me....a refund and a stock ECU. Suddenly he tells me, and I quote, "I don't have any money.....I don't have enough money to give you a refund.....I don't have $2,500!! Sorry! Powerchip won't give me a refund, so I can't give you one." I explained to him that's between you and Powerchip, but someone's going to give me back my $2500. He basically went quiet and ignored my calls the next few days. I sent him a very cordial email requesting a refund.....he passes the buck and basically refers me to Powerchip. Vadim completely went back on his word and did not honor what he said he would. I wasn't asking for a lot, just what I paid for- that's it. When the track and the dyno didn't net one single ounce of an improvement over stock numbers I asked for a refund. He continually pushed all the issues to Powerchip and basically accepted no responsibility for a product that HE, as an employee of VRP sold me. I didn't send Powerchip $2500, I didn't mail my ECU to Powechip, I didn't spend hours on the phone with Powerchip, I wasn't convinced that this ECU upgrade would work by Powerchip.....but by Vadim at VRP.
It was a complete disaster.....I won't get into the business trip I missed due to Vadim taking 6 days to send me my ECU back, the hundreds of dollars spent on dyno pulls, over-night shipping, and a rental car......or the hours of of my time spent at track or in a dyno room.
I just wanted you guys to know my experience. I'm sure plenty here have had a good experience with him.....but this is MY story and my personal experience. Before you yank out your ECU and send it off to anyone, do yourself a favor and do before/after comparisons on the same dyno and the same track. These online testimonies to "wow, it feels so much better".. and..."I can totally feel a difference" ........really?? Don't be so sure. You'd be surprised at what you "want" to feel after cutting a $2500 check. And, make sure that your tuner has a cash reserve of $2500 so he can actually give you a refund after he tells you he will.
End result- I had to have Amex go after Vadim for my money.....and he had no response to them either. Apparently, it's difficult to simply pay for a service and expect to get what you paid for. Be careful who you deal with guys.
If there's ever a tuner that can mod my ECU, put my car on a dyno and show me the ~40-60rwhp and 100+ft lbs of torque increase I'd buy it tomorrow. But, I'm 0 for 2 as of now. I've been told by several that RennTech is the only way to go??
-Busa196-
08-15-2009, 11:57 AM
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BMW
wow that sucks. i always hate hearing stories like this.
did you finally get your stock tune back in? how long did you drive the car for adaptation after installing the tuned ecu's?
did you finally get your stock tune back in? how long did you drive the car for adaptation after installing the tuned ecu's?
08-15-2009, 12:49 PM
#3
PLATINUM SPONSOR
You'd be surprised at what you "want" to feel after cutting a $2500 check. And, make sure that your tuner has a cash reserve of $2500 so he can actually give you a refund after he tells you he will.
Did you try and PM any of the other 65`s with proven track and dyno numbers?
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
Last edited by Exotic-metal55; 08-15-2009 at 12:54 PM.
08-15-2009, 12:55 PM
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S600TT, R350
Jason, I am very sorry that it went that way. Your credit card company has received the funds over two months ago.
As far as your S65, there is still something not right with it. We have tried to resolve this over the phone.
My next suggestion would be checking that inlet MAP (green label) sensors that are on the airboxes are plugged in and working, also I am starting to see main MAP (blue lable) sensor failing, but triggering any codes.
As far as your S65, there is still something not right with it. We have tried to resolve this over the phone.
My next suggestion would be checking that inlet MAP (green label) sensors that are on the airboxes are plugged in and working, also I am starting to see main MAP (blue lable) sensor failing, but triggering any codes.
08-15-2009, 01:11 PM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
That's sad to hear, Vadim was the only guy I really thought was legit and trustworthy you seem to have been straight up with everything I was expecting the 2nd side of the story to give the whole truth, but I guess you told it. Why he wouldn't refund is beyond me he should have known you would dispute it anyways.
08-15-2009, 01:21 PM
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S600TT, R350
It was a difficult period in my business, VRP and I were going separate ways.
I tried to do everything I could to take care of Jason. He has received his credit. I am very sorry it took longer than it should of.
He still has the PC tune in his car and once whatever is holding boost back is solved, car should fly.
I tried to do everything I could to take care of Jason. He has received his credit. I am very sorry it took longer than it should of.
He still has the PC tune in his car and once whatever is holding boost back is solved, car should fly.
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08-15-2009, 02:10 PM
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Sorry to hear this but I'm glad to hear that it's resolved. If 2 tuners flashed the ECU and something is holding the car back from using the extra boost and making more power, any idea what it can be Busa196?
08-15-2009, 03:20 PM
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
wow sorry to hear what happened...
hopefully your problem is solved by now, and i'm sure you'll find something that'll work for you and your 65!
good luck to you!
as for me, i'm still waiting for my HEM's i ordered from vadim!
won't say how long i waited, but if i don't get my tracking number soon theres gona be some
haha =P
hopefully your problem is solved by now, and i'm sure you'll find something that'll work for you and your 65!
good luck to you!
as for me, i'm still waiting for my HEM's i ordered from vadim!
won't say how long i waited, but if i don't get my tracking number soon theres gona be some
haha =P
08-15-2009, 05:08 PM
#11
08-16-2009, 05:00 PM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
did you finally get your stock tune back in? how long did you drive the car for adaptation after installing the tuned ecu's?
That's sad to hear, Vadim was the only guy I really thought was legit and trustworthy you seem to have been straight up with everything I was expecting the 2nd side of the story to give the whole truth, but I guess you told it. Why he wouldn't refund is beyond me he should have known you would dispute it anyways.
Sorry to hear this but I'm glad to hear that it's resolved.
I was thinking the same thing. It seems like 118 is the standard and what most stock S65's trap.
08-16-2009, 06:28 PM
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V12-Biturbo
No, the worthless VRP tune is still in the car....and has yet to run as fast as it did when it was stock.
I agree. "I don't have any money" isn't exactly the phrase you want to hear from the guy that your trusting to tune the ECU to your S65.
It's not resolved. I have an unwanted tune in my car that "technincally" performs worse than when it was stock. And, FWIW, I don't belive there's anything "holding back boost"......I think thats nonsense. I just don't believe I've gotten the right tune for "my" car yet, that's all. Someone needs to spend a little time on it.
It trapped 117 on the only pass I made on street tires....I didn't acheive the 120's until I bolted on the DR's. My brother has an S600.....it's awful close when we run, but I eventually do go by him......just like a stock 65 should do. The car was stock when it was purchased, I'm 100% sure of that. I raced my brother before and after Vadim's and Kleemanns tune.....both had no change in the pace at which I would eventually pass him.
I agree. "I don't have any money" isn't exactly the phrase you want to hear from the guy that your trusting to tune the ECU to your S65.
It's not resolved. I have an unwanted tune in my car that "technincally" performs worse than when it was stock. And, FWIW, I don't belive there's anything "holding back boost"......I think thats nonsense. I just don't believe I've gotten the right tune for "my" car yet, that's all. Someone needs to spend a little time on it.
It trapped 117 on the only pass I made on street tires....I didn't acheive the 120's until I bolted on the DR's. My brother has an S600.....it's awful close when we run, but I eventually do go by him......just like a stock 65 should do. The car was stock when it was purchased, I'm 100% sure of that. I raced my brother before and after Vadim's and Kleemanns tune.....both had no change in the pace at which I would eventually pass him.
2) Seems someone isn't telling the entire truth
If you asked for refund & flash back to stock, why are you still running PC tune? Since Vadim says you were refunded 2 months ago???3) Vadim admits NOT being able to give refund @ 1st request, why would PC software still be on your S65? If said refund was given couple months ago?
4) Your S65 is indeed laying dwn monster ET's Traps vs ANY stk S65, though confusing part is plenty of CL65/S65 etc have shown 550+ rwhp w/PC or Kleemann software, seems a simple process of elimination if your S65 was in actual tuners hands, easy for them to read real time PSI/boost levels & why your S65 isn't exceeding stock boost of 18-19 PSI
Or if your S65 was/is already running higher boost to start with?5) Was your Speed limiter removed w/Tunes? Doesn't sound like the PC tune took if you couldn't run past 155mph when on Dyno & NOT in Dyno-mode...
6) I say call Travis or Wayne directly, they'll take care of you ASAP
Either way you slice it, your S65 is putting up TUNED Track #'s w/your ORIGINAL FILE (though it's great ammo for arguing trolls & stating your stock
)These parts are just rediculous!
So, I call Vadim from the track and give him the scoop- he's baffled, I'm baffled....what now? I get home and we chat some more.....suddenly it seems as if he has the answer..."oh, you were in dyno mode when running it??......that's a totally different map than the normal street mode." This sounded strange to me as I've always dragged my car in dyno mode, but he's the expert, not me. Then he also tells me to leave my car in "normal" mode while in the dyno- which I didn't think would work either because of the t/c system. But, at this point I'll try anything. So, I head to the track again, and the dyno again....and it's the same story....identical results from the previous visits. And as I thought, you can't dyno the car in normal street mode. I felt a bit retarded even tyring, but whatever.
Why would your ENTIRE Powerchip tune purchase price of $2500 be unavailable? Sounds like somebody used the payment improperly, IE obviously Powerchip hadn't been paid their cut of $2500 thus the reason PC coudn't give Vadim your refund when you needed it.
Suddenly he tells me, and I quote, "I don't have any money.....I don't have enough money to give you a refund.....I don't have $2,500!! Sorry! Powerchip won't give me a refund, so I can't give you one." I explained to him that's between you and Powerchip, but someone's going to give me back my $2500. He basically went quiet and ignored my calls the next few days. I sent him a very cordial email requesting a refund.....he passes the buck and basically refers me to Powerchip. Vadim completely went back on his word and did not honor what he said he would.
Last edited by Thericker; 08-16-2009 at 07:05 PM.
08-16-2009, 07:12 PM
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
1) this is unacceptable! Travis/Wayne are top-notch, they will flash you back to your stock file in a snap...
2) Seems someone isn't telling the entire truth If you asked for re-fund & flash back to stock, why are you still running PC tune? Since Vadim says you were refunded 2 months ago???
3) Vadim admits NOT being able to give refund @ 1st request, why would PC software still be on your S65? If said refund was given couple months ago?
4) Your S65 is indeed laying dwn monster ET's Traps vs ANY stk 65, though confusing part is plenty of CL65/S65 etc have shown 550+ rwhp w/PC or Kleemann software, seems a simple process of elimination if your S65 was in actual tuners hands, easy for them to read real time PSI/boost levels & why your S65 isn't exceeding stock boost of 18-19 PSI Or if your S65 was/is already running higher boost to start with?
5) Was your Speed limiter removed w/Tunes? Doesn't sound like the PC tune took if you couldn't run past 155mph when on Dyno & NOT in Dyno-mode...
6) I say call Travis or Wayne directly, they'll take care of you ASAP
Either way you slice it, your S65 is putting up TUNED Track #'s w/your ORIGINAL FILE (though it's great ammo for arguing trolls & stating your stock)
2) Seems someone isn't telling the entire truth
If you asked for re-fund & flash back to stock, why are you still running PC tune? Since Vadim says you were refunded 2 months ago???3) Vadim admits NOT being able to give refund @ 1st request, why would PC software still be on your S65? If said refund was given couple months ago?
4) Your S65 is indeed laying dwn monster ET's Traps vs ANY stk 65, though confusing part is plenty of CL65/S65 etc have shown 550+ rwhp w/PC or Kleemann software, seems a simple process of elimination if your S65 was in actual tuners hands, easy for them to read real time PSI/boost levels & why your S65 isn't exceeding stock boost of 18-19 PSI
Or if your S65 was/is already running higher boost to start with?5) Was your Speed limiter removed w/Tunes? Doesn't sound like the PC tune took if you couldn't run past 155mph when on Dyno & NOT in Dyno-mode...
6) I say call Travis or Wayne directly, they'll take care of you ASAP
Either way you slice it, your S65 is putting up TUNED Track #'s w/your ORIGINAL FILE (though it's great ammo for arguing trolls & stating your stock
)2) My refund was given to me by AMEX not by Vadim......I had to call them and file a report with them to get the refund- which took about 3 months and was only given after Vadim didn't respond to any of their requests for information. If I had paid cash, I never would have gotten a refund, period. Whether or not Vadim finally paid Amex I don't know, nor do I care. Point is, he refused to refund me my money after he admittedly agreed to. Nuff said on that.
3) The PC "tune" (if that's what you want to call it) is still in my car because Vadim did not do as he had agreed. He had PC put a different file into it after PC told HIM that he was SOL......that they were not going to give HIM anything back. I didn't even find out that the ECU had another modified tune in it until it was in the mail headed back to me. I didn't ask for a 2nd file to be loaded into my car, I asked for a refund and a stock flash- which was agreed to. I wasn't about to send my ECU to VRP for a 3rd time, rent another car and spend another $60 in shipping to have him do what I asked him to do the 2nd time. Either way, it doesn't matter as the car still dynoed slightly less than stock numbers even with the re-flash.
4) agreed on the ET's and HP of my car.....but let's face it, how many S65's have you really seen dragged down the track with MT ET Streets that are prepped with a John Force style burnout.....followed by a launch at 3k.....not many. My point is, there's not many that truly get tested with people that know how to do the proper preps. You're avg biz exec fesh off the plane from London who watched the NHRA Spring Nationals the night before and gets a hair up his a## to go drag his car that's been opened up half a dozen times in the past year doesn't count. I drive my car hard, have some DR experience and am not afraid to beat the **** out of it. That combo is hard to find with most S65 owners. Trust me, it turned plenty of heads and earned several "WTF is that" mumbles.
5) Yes, the speed limiter is off......that was the ONLY way I knew that anything had been changed.
6) I'm not calling anyone, they (VRP) had their chance to make this right on multiple occassions. If it wasn't for AMEX I would still be out $2,500- you can count on that.
All I asked for was what I paid for- no more, no less.
08-16-2009, 07:13 PM
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
You've obviously never owned a Vette
.
my dome!
08-16-2009, 07:22 PM
#19
Super Member
RENNtech
Wow!!!!! Sorry to hear of your lousy experience!! What a waste of time and money. If what you say is true, then "FEDOR DEZYN (VADIM)" is a real disappointment. I don't have anything against Vadim personally, but I stopped dealing with him along time ago. Too many promises of upgrades that "will be done in the next few week" that never happened. I just gave up on him.
With regard to the Kleemann tune, there is a forum member that I am friends with who has a Kleemann tuned CL65 that did not net the predicted gains. He sent back the ECU a few times for remapping and finally got it close to what was expected but he is still not thrilled IMO.
RENNtech is the Gold standard for AMG tuning performance. There is no question that they are more expensive then other companies but your car does not become a Guinea Pig either. Of course they have their critics also, but IMO they are the most reliable. I have had my car for two years and did not upgrade the ECU with RENNtech because of the price but I refuse to trust anyone else with my car so I kept it stock. I plan to bite the bullet shortly and at least do the RENNtech ECU upgrade and I say you should give them a try. They have a new devise called the RENNtech Auto Tuner (R.A.T.) so you never have to take your ECU out and send it to them. They send you the devise that connects to your OBD II port and you flash your ECU to either a stock tune (if you need to go to the dealer) or modified for track/street use at your will. It is an awesome idea. Check out their website: www.renntechmercedes.com It is advertised on the home page.
Also, check out post #24 of this thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-...s-kleeman.html
These gains are pretty sweet and hard to beat. Good luck with whatever you decide and sorry for all your hassle.
Larry
With regard to the Kleemann tune, there is a forum member that I am friends with who has a Kleemann tuned CL65 that did not net the predicted gains. He sent back the ECU a few times for remapping and finally got it close to what was expected but he is still not thrilled IMO.
RENNtech is the Gold standard for AMG tuning performance. There is no question that they are more expensive then other companies but your car does not become a Guinea Pig either. Of course they have their critics also, but IMO they are the most reliable. I have had my car for two years and did not upgrade the ECU with RENNtech because of the price but I refuse to trust anyone else with my car so I kept it stock. I plan to bite the bullet shortly and at least do the RENNtech ECU upgrade and I say you should give them a try. They have a new devise called the RENNtech Auto Tuner (R.A.T.) so you never have to take your ECU out and send it to them. They send you the devise that connects to your OBD II port and you flash your ECU to either a stock tune (if you need to go to the dealer) or modified for track/street use at your will. It is an awesome idea. Check out their website: www.renntechmercedes.com It is advertised on the home page.
Also, check out post #24 of this thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-...s-kleeman.html
These gains are pretty sweet and hard to beat. Good luck with whatever you decide and sorry for all your hassle.
Larry
Last edited by france2112; 08-16-2009 at 10:16 PM.
08-16-2009, 07:26 PM
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V12-Biturbo
2) My refund was given to me by AMEX not by Vadim......I had to call them and file a report with them to get the refund- which took about 3 months and was only given after Vadim didn't respond to any of their requests for information. If I had paid cash, I never would have gotten a refund, period. Whether or not Vadim finally paid Amex I don't know, nor do I care. Point is, he refused to refund me my money after he admittedly agreed to. Nuff said on that.
3) The PC "tune" (if that's what you want to call it) is still in my car because Vadim did not do as he had agreed. He had PC put a different file into it after PC told HIM that he was SOL......that they were not going to give HIM anything back. I didn't even find out that the ECU had another modified tune in it until it was in the mail headed back to me. I didn't ask for a 2nd file to be loaded into my car, I asked for a refund and a stock flash- which was agreed to. I wasn't about to send my ECU to VRP for a 3rd time, rent another car and spend another $60 in shipping to have him do what I asked him to do the 2nd time. Either way, it doesn't matter as the car still dynoed slightly less than stock numbers even with the re-flash.
4) agreed on the ET's and HP of my car.....but let's face it, how many S65's have you really seen dragged down the track with MT ET Streets that are prepped with a John Force style burnout.....followed by a launch at 3k.....not many. My point is, there's not many that truly get tested with people that know how to do the proper preps. You're avg biz exec fesh off the plane from London who watched the NHRA Spring Nationals the night before and gets a hair up his a## to go drag his car that's been opened up half a dozen times in the past year doesn't count. I drive my car hard, have some DR experience and am not afraid to beat the **** out of it. That combo is hard to find with most S65 owners. Trust me, it turned plenty of heads and earned several "WTF is that" mumbles.
5) Yes, the speed limiter is off......that was the ONLY way I knew that anything had been changed.
6) I'm not calling anyone, they (VRP) had their chance to make this right on multiple occassions. If it wasn't for AMEX I would still be out $2,500- you can count on that.
All I asked for was what I paid for- no more, no less.
3) The PC "tune" (if that's what you want to call it) is still in my car because Vadim did not do as he had agreed. He had PC put a different file into it after PC told HIM that he was SOL......that they were not going to give HIM anything back. I didn't even find out that the ECU had another modified tune in it until it was in the mail headed back to me. I didn't ask for a 2nd file to be loaded into my car, I asked for a refund and a stock flash- which was agreed to. I wasn't about to send my ECU to VRP for a 3rd time, rent another car and spend another $60 in shipping to have him do what I asked him to do the 2nd time. Either way, it doesn't matter as the car still dynoed slightly less than stock numbers even with the re-flash.
4) agreed on the ET's and HP of my car.....but let's face it, how many S65's have you really seen dragged down the track with MT ET Streets that are prepped with a John Force style burnout.....followed by a launch at 3k.....not many. My point is, there's not many that truly get tested with people that know how to do the proper preps. You're avg biz exec fesh off the plane from London who watched the NHRA Spring Nationals the night before and gets a hair up his a## to go drag his car that's been opened up half a dozen times in the past year doesn't count. I drive my car hard, have some DR experience and am not afraid to beat the **** out of it. That combo is hard to find with most S65 owners. Trust me, it turned plenty of heads and earned several "WTF is that" mumbles.
5) Yes, the speed limiter is off......that was the ONLY way I knew that anything had been changed.
6) I'm not calling anyone, they (VRP) had their chance to make this right on multiple occassions. If it wasn't for AMEX I would still be out $2,500- you can count on that.
All I asked for was what I paid for- no more, no less.
Chk out this comparo, I assume your the Stk S65 from Dragtimes # (3)?
Roger Ver, nets a better 60' & expected slightly lower ET, but your S65 is nearly identical in splits, his S65 has RENNtech ECU, I really think your ORIGINAL ECU has previously been flashed
2) 11.524*^ 120.300 7.439 95.139 1.760 Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG 2006 Roger Ver
3) 11.540*#+ 122.850 7.475 95.400 1.782 Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG 2006 Jeff Breeden
3) 11.540*#+ 122.850 7.475 95.400 1.782 Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG 2006 Jeff Breeden
Treynor had ALL S600/S65/SL65 & can drive like you, his stk Trap speeds in S65 were in the 118-120 range tops, w/Drag setup MT's on 17"s
Last edited by Thericker; 08-16-2009 at 07:50 PM.
08-16-2009, 09:02 PM
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LS430
I agree 100% but appears Wayne/Travis/Powerchip WEREN'T root of your problems, & your S65 runs faster w/ORIGINAL tune, they can flash you back in a jiff
Chk out this comparo, I assume your the Stk S65 from Dragtimes # (3)?
Roger Ver, nets a better 60' & expected slightly lower ET, but your S65 is nearly identical in splits, his S65 has RENNtech ECU, I really think your ORIGINAL ECU has previously been flashed
Treynor had ALL S600/S65/SL65 & can drive like you, his stk Trap speeds in S65 were in the 118-120 range tops, w/Drag setup MT's on 17"s
Chk out this comparo, I assume your the Stk S65 from Dragtimes # (3)?
Roger Ver, nets a better 60' & expected slightly lower ET, but your S65 is nearly identical in splits, his S65 has RENNtech ECU, I really think your ORIGINAL ECU has previously been flashed
Treynor had ALL S600/S65/SL65 & can drive like you, his stk Trap speeds in S65 were in the 118-120 range tops, w/Drag setup MT's on 17"s
Busa196's 530rwhp seems to be easily within stock 65 AMG power levels, just offering some extra insight as I'm perplexed how come his car can't gain more rwhp with a tune as his rwhp figure means no tune on his car. If he is making 530rwhp with an already tune car that's still a bit low vs. other tuned numbers as stock S65s made 520-542rwhp stock. Dragtimes had 3 stock S65s rwhp dyno numbers. Renntech made 520rwhp, a W221 made 537rwhp and Rodger Ver made 542rwhp all cars were stock. Tuned cars jumped to 560rwhp and 610rwhp.
If we even compare his stock 530rwhp to stock CL65 numbers, its within spec, Dragtimes got 559rwhp for DoctorV8's car and 551rwhp for V12AMGs. SGC Renntech tuned CL65 bumped all the way up to 606rwhp and 725rwtq (big big power there).
All this to me looks like he actually is stock and not tuned. One thing that definitely would help us is he had a torque reading to go with his 530rwhp dyno, that would help us know a bit better about his car.
Another thing to see is that Treynor tuned S600 which had similar rwhp to Busa196 S65 (525rwhp Tuned S600 vs. Busa's stock 530rwhp) trapped 119-120mph, more info making me believe Busa's S65 is stock. A tuned S65 should easily outtrap a tuned S600, the fact that they are equal in trap makes me believe his S65 is stock.
V12Godspeed has traps similiar to Busa's with his stock CL65 posting ETs of 11.53,11.61 and 11.64 and trapping 120-121mph in all of them and the information states he's STOCK on DRs.
Great post by you btw, to allow me to come in with more info. Hopefully we all can find out why Busa can't gain power in a tune and most importantly we he haven't received his tune back to stock yet.
Last edited by E55AMGFan; 08-16-2009 at 09:13 PM.
08-16-2009, 11:29 PM
#22
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V12-Biturbo
hey TheRicker, Roger Ver had 2 times and 2 dynos, his stock dyno was 522rwhp and 628rwtq, his Renntech dyno was 610.83rwhp and 720rwtq (very strong numbers for stock and tuned). He ran 2 times, 11.542@120mph as you stated AND a 11.067@128mph both times stating the Renntech tune was on the car, the dragtimes info did state however that the 11.067 run was on DRs, with that being said most likely he ran the 11.542 with a tune but with street tires as he picked up 8mph and close to .5 seconds quicker resulting in a 11.067, my thinking is that it has to be the DRs which means the 11.542 run seem to be on street tires. He also cutted a quicker 60ft as well.
Busa196's 530rwhp seems to be easily within stock 65 AMG power levels, just offering some extra insight as I'm perplexed how come his car can't gain more rwhp with a tune as his rwhp figure means no tune on his car. If he is making 530rwhp with an already tune car that's still a bit low vs. other tuned numbers as stock S65s made 520-542rwhp stock. Dragtimes had 3 stock S65s rwhp dyno numbers. Renntech made 520rwhp, a W221 made 537rwhp and Rodger Ver made 542rwhp all cars were stock. Tuned cars jumped to 560rwhp and 610rwhp.
If we even compare his stock 530rwhp to stock CL65 numbers, its within spec, Dragtimes got 559rwhp for DoctorV8's car and 551rwhp for V12AMGs. SGC Renntech tuned CL65 bumped all the way up to 606rwhp and 725rwtq (big big power there).
All this to me looks like he actually is stock and not tuned. One thing that definitely would help us is he had a torque reading to go with his 530rwhp dyno, that would help us know a bit better about his car.
Another thing to see is that Treynor tuned S600 which had similar rwhp to Busa196 S65 (525rwhp Tuned S600 vs. Busa's stock 530rwhp) trapped 119-120mph, more info making me believe Busa's S65 is stock. A tuned S65 should easily outtrap a tuned S600, the fact that they are equal in trap makes me believe his S65 is stock.
V12Godspeed has traps similiar to Busa's with his stock CL65 posting ETs of 11.53,11.61 and 11.64 and trapping 120-121mph in all of them and the information states he's STOCK on DRs.
Great post by you btw, to allow me to come in with more info. Hopefully we all can find out why Busa can't gain power in a tune and most importantly we he haven't received his tune back to stock yet.
Busa196's 530rwhp seems to be easily within stock 65 AMG power levels, just offering some extra insight as I'm perplexed how come his car can't gain more rwhp with a tune as his rwhp figure means no tune on his car. If he is making 530rwhp with an already tune car that's still a bit low vs. other tuned numbers as stock S65s made 520-542rwhp stock. Dragtimes had 3 stock S65s rwhp dyno numbers. Renntech made 520rwhp, a W221 made 537rwhp and Rodger Ver made 542rwhp all cars were stock. Tuned cars jumped to 560rwhp and 610rwhp.
If we even compare his stock 530rwhp to stock CL65 numbers, its within spec, Dragtimes got 559rwhp for DoctorV8's car and 551rwhp for V12AMGs. SGC Renntech tuned CL65 bumped all the way up to 606rwhp and 725rwtq (big big power there).
All this to me looks like he actually is stock and not tuned. One thing that definitely would help us is he had a torque reading to go with his 530rwhp dyno, that would help us know a bit better about his car.
Another thing to see is that Treynor tuned S600 which had similar rwhp to Busa196 S65 (525rwhp Tuned S600 vs. Busa's stock 530rwhp) trapped 119-120mph, more info making me believe Busa's S65 is stock. A tuned S65 should easily outtrap a tuned S600, the fact that they are equal in trap makes me believe his S65 is stock.
V12Godspeed has traps similiar to Busa's with his stock CL65 posting ETs of 11.53,11.61 and 11.64 and trapping 120-121mph in all of them and the information states he's STOCK on DRs.
Great post by you btw, to allow me to come in with more info. Hopefully we all can find out why Busa can't gain power in a tune and most importantly we he haven't received his tune back to stock yet.
I always enjoy reading your posts,just adding info here
These are heavy *** sedans, truly remarkable to make these ET's/Traps S600 W/ECU/TCU dyno's lower on RWHP but nearly exact on RWTO, that's what's getting these buggers dwn the 1320' so well. Lastly Dyno's are just Dyno's the real deal is track #'s Dynos can read whatever the operator wants, I've seen 825 rwto on Dragtimes record ECU only lol...
Found some solid Proof of 105 Octane, Roger Ver's Dynojet RENNtech ECU'd S65 (Dyno is from his Dragtimes link) NOTICE the A/F it's retarded LEAN 13.5 + it's from a shop up North Cal, 91 is served in CA, this S65 is 100% on 105 Octane tuned ECU if this 13.5+ Air Fuel Ratio was run on anything less KAABOOOM!!!
Last edited by Thericker; 08-17-2009 at 12:10 AM.
08-17-2009, 12:12 AM
#23
MBWorld Fanatic!
hey TheRicker, Roger Ver had 2 times and 2 dynos, his stock dyno was 522rwhp and 628rwtq, his Renntech dyno was 610.83rwhp and 720rwtq (very strong numbers for stock and tuned). He ran 2 times, 11.542@120mph as you stated AND a 11.067@128mph both times stating the Renntech tune was on the car, the dragtimes info did state however that the 11.067 run was on DRs, with that being said most likely he ran the 11.542 with a tune but with street tires as he picked up 8mph and close to .5 seconds quicker resulting in a 11.067, my thinking is that it has to be the DRs which means the 11.542 run seem to be on street tires. He also cutted a quicker 60ft as well.
Busa196's 530rwhp seems to be easily within stock 65 AMG power levels, just offering some extra insight as I'm perplexed how come his car can't gain more rwhp with a tune as his rwhp figure means no tune on his car. If he is making 530rwhp with an already tune car that's still a bit low vs. other tuned numbers as stock S65s made 520-542rwhp stock. Dragtimes had 3 stock S65s rwhp dyno numbers. Renntech made 520rwhp, a W221 made 537rwhp and Rodger Ver made 542rwhp all cars were stock. Tuned cars jumped to 560rwhp and 610rwhp.
If we even compare his stock 530rwhp to stock CL65 numbers, its within spec, Dragtimes got 559rwhp for DoctorV8's car and 551rwhp for V12AMGs. SGC Renntech tuned CL65 bumped all the way up to 606rwhp and 725rwtq (big big power there).
All this to me looks like he actually is stock and not tuned. One thing that definitely would help us is he had a torque reading to go with his 530rwhp dyno, that would help us know a bit better about his car.
Another thing to see is that Treynor tuned S600 which had similar rwhp to Busa196 S65 (525rwhp Tuned S600 vs. Busa's stock 530rwhp) trapped 119-120mph, more info making me believe Busa's S65 is stock. A tuned S65 should easily outtrap a tuned S600, the fact that they are equal in trap makes me believe his S65 is stock.
V12Godspeed has traps similiar to Busa's with his stock CL65 posting ETs of 11.53,11.61 and 11.64 and trapping 120-121mph in all of them and the information states he's STOCK on DRs.
Great post by you btw, to allow me to come in with more info. Hopefully we all can find out why Busa can't gain power in a tune and most importantly we he haven't received his tune back to stock yet.
Busa196's 530rwhp seems to be easily within stock 65 AMG power levels, just offering some extra insight as I'm perplexed how come his car can't gain more rwhp with a tune as his rwhp figure means no tune on his car. If he is making 530rwhp with an already tune car that's still a bit low vs. other tuned numbers as stock S65s made 520-542rwhp stock. Dragtimes had 3 stock S65s rwhp dyno numbers. Renntech made 520rwhp, a W221 made 537rwhp and Rodger Ver made 542rwhp all cars were stock. Tuned cars jumped to 560rwhp and 610rwhp.
If we even compare his stock 530rwhp to stock CL65 numbers, its within spec, Dragtimes got 559rwhp for DoctorV8's car and 551rwhp for V12AMGs. SGC Renntech tuned CL65 bumped all the way up to 606rwhp and 725rwtq (big big power there).
All this to me looks like he actually is stock and not tuned. One thing that definitely would help us is he had a torque reading to go with his 530rwhp dyno, that would help us know a bit better about his car.
Another thing to see is that Treynor tuned S600 which had similar rwhp to Busa196 S65 (525rwhp Tuned S600 vs. Busa's stock 530rwhp) trapped 119-120mph, more info making me believe Busa's S65 is stock. A tuned S65 should easily outtrap a tuned S600, the fact that they are equal in trap makes me believe his S65 is stock.
V12Godspeed has traps similiar to Busa's with his stock CL65 posting ETs of 11.53,11.61 and 11.64 and trapping 120-121mph in all of them and the information states he's STOCK on DRs.
Great post by you btw, to allow me to come in with more info. Hopefully we all can find out why Busa can't gain power in a tune and most importantly we he haven't received his tune back to stock yet.
Tom
08-17-2009, 12:49 AM
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GL550, C55, 335i Coupe, vintage Mustang
I have held back from posting a comment on this thread for about 24 hours. I would like to say some things and take it how you wish, as I am not an expert on anything. To the original poster, Busa, you purchased a pre-owned car that in my opinion had a tune on it. If you did purchase it from an MB dealer as a certified car, there is a good chance the previous owner did not disclose that little bit of information and I honestly believe that only a handful of technicians would have caught it on a used car inspection, as most techs only see a few V12s a year, let alone a 65. I would really like to see what numbers your car can put down on a Dyno Dynamics dyno as 530 hp is higher than any stock 65 I have seen, and would also like to see a torque reading as well as boost. Boost on these cars can't be accurately measured by T'ing into the pressure sensor on the passenger side intercooler, but needs to be tapped into the vacuum line coming out of the manifold at the center of the rear of the engine. That enables you to read actual manifold boost pressure or vacuum. I don't like to discount people, and try to look at the big picture, but I feel that if Kleemann and Powerchip both ended up not making the gains expected, I'm going to say that there is a good chance it had a tune. Maybe that is the reason Vadim couldn't get money back from Powerchip. Also, while $2500 may be a lot of money to be out, that's a good reason to have an AMEX to help you protect yourself. People need to understand that there are times in business that the man in charge has absolutely everything on the line to continue something he built and loves. I can think of more than a couple who didn't have $100 to their name during a slump in business and with this economy I'm not surprised that a relative new comer to the luxury car tuning industry might have months in the red. At least you can still drop $2500 on modding your car.
Let the attacks begin.....
Nick
Let the attacks begin.....
Nick
08-17-2009, 02:04 AM
#25
MBWorld Fanatic!
I have held back from posting a comment on this thread for about 24 hours. I would like to say some things and take it how you wish, as I am not an expert on anything. To the original poster, Busa, you purchased a pre-owned car that in my opinion had a tune on it. If you did purchase it from an MB dealer as a certified car, there is a good chance the previous owner did not disclose that little bit of information and I honestly believe that only a handful of technicians would have caught it on a used car inspection, as most techs only see a few V12s a year, let alone a 65. I would really like to see what numbers your car can put down on a Dyno Dynamics dyno as 530 hp is higher than any stock 65 I have seen, and would also like to see a torque reading as well as boost. Boost on these cars can't be accurately measured by T'ing into the pressure sensor on the passenger side intercooler, but needs to be tapped into the vacuum line coming out of the manifold at the center of the rear of the engine. That enables you to read actual manifold boost pressure or vacuum. I don't like to discount people, and try to look at the big picture, but I feel that if Kleemann and Powerchip both ended up not making the gains expected, I'm going to say that there is a good chance it had a tune. Maybe that is the reason Vadim couldn't get money back from Powerchip. Also, while $2500 may be a lot of money to be out, that's a good reason to have an AMEX to help you protect yourself. People need to understand that there are times in business that the man in charge has absolutely everything on the line to continue something he built and loves. I can think of more than a couple who didn't have $100 to their name during a slump in business and with this economy I'm not surprised that a relative new comer to the luxury car tuning industry might have months in the red. At least you can still drop $2500 on modding your car.
Let the attacks begin.....
Nick
Let the attacks begin.....
Nick
I would have thought the same thing as you and others, that the OP's S65 was already tuned. His traps do seem super strong for stock. However, I recall his story of how his S65 was sluggish on his initial test drive. He claims that the MB dealer reset the computer, so I would only imagine that any tune would have been overwritten:
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...5-vs-s600.html
It isn't as easy as some people make it out to be to tune these V12TTs. From personal experience, I have seen multiple tunes from different tuners not result in any increases in peak hp on V12TTs. There were increases in the hp under the curve. I have seen a Kleemann tune make significant increases in peak hp (45 rwhp peak corrected with 100+rwhp under the curve vs stock) on a second attempt at tuning the ECU.
Tom
