GeorgeJ

I'm about to pull the trigger on the ECU and TCU upgrades and was wondering why Renntech is almost twice as much? I have a SL65 and I'd like to know if Renntech is worth twice as much as Kleeman. Any and all input is welcome.
Thanks,

Marcus Frost

GeorgeJ,

I had RENNTech in my SL600... I really wasn't that impressed with what I got relative to the pricetag and feel that Kleemann would offer just as good of a product and with their pricing now, it would he hard to say no.

For what it's worth, I'm actually going to be using VRP on my 65. Have their product on my E55 and have been happy with it - they've been working with a local guy and his 65 (look him up, user name is MarkoCL65) and they have been getting some incredible results on this motor.

Good luck,

-m

bigmike32172

What is the charge for the VRP? With this great economy right now money is tight and these guys need to realize the days of trying to make millions for a cookie cutter computer flash is over. I just can't see spending $2,500 to $5k for 70HP

URnext

You know who I would choose for my tune

TimsSL65

I did all the research before choosing Kleemann. Kleemann's performance improvements are nearly identical to RennTECH, yet the price was less than half (purchased on sale for $2500). Frankly, Kleemann was the easy choice. So far, no regrets!

Tim

BMS

I have nothing but good things to say about Kleeman. I chose them two years ago for my mods and was very happy with the results.They are much less expensive than Rentech. Recently I got a bigger pulley from VRP which also required a new tune (ECU). The difference was mind blowing. The car (SL55) is so fast I can't stand it. I still have Kleeman's long headers and their dif, but I have VRP's throttle body, pulley and tune. I also got their new camshafts last year. I did not have a chance to go to the drags last summer, but I can't wait for this summer. Two years ago the car turned an 11.8 with Jf003 driving and it is much faster now. I expect (as does Victor at VRP) low 11's or high 10's. Two weeks ago Victor came down to Motorwerks in Commerce Township with Marko in his CL 65 and also a very fast Kleeman CL 600. Marko consistently turns 10.7's in his beautiful white Cl 65. We had an impromptu three way race from a rolling start. Victor was driving my car to see how well it was running with his mods. Marko beat my car, but it was close. My car easily pulled the CL 600 all the way up. Point is, Kleeman is a very good choice but VRP is really on top of their game.

TMC M5

I know one particular KLEEMANN 65 that put down 575rwhp with just BMC drop-in filters...Johnson CM030 I/C pump and 93 octane gas.

I think Marko has done some amazing things with his car with the intake and I/C cores he developed with VRP. The dyno #'s generated by VRP on a 65 with ECU tune only were 550rwhp using 91 octane. However, in looking at the dyno charts side by side, the KLEEMANN tune makes upwards of 70rwtq more of peak torque (this is based on extrapolating the torque #s through calibrated rpm at speeds for both dynos...at a minimum it is 9-10% higher at relative speed). Even if the VRP tune benefited by 10-15rwhp (2-3% higher)with 93 octane. The torque # for the KLEEMANN tune is still 7-8% higher.

Tom

GeorgeJ

Well I've decided on renntech and I'm getting the ECU/TCU, CF Airbox, Intercooler upgrade, plus the Toe link Kit and Camber Bushing kit to get the power to the pavement, all done next week. Will have dyno results both before and after and I'm actually trying to video them. Hope to have close to 700 HP.
Should have some great video's and pics. Should be done by Thursday afterrnoon. Will upload ASAP. Will try to get to Bradeneton FL Track over the next few weeks.

TMC M5

Very nice!!! When are you doing the before dyno? You will probably see close to 600rwhp (depending on the dyno type). Good luck and thanks in advance for making it transparent project!

Tom

GeorgeJ

Renntech is doing both before and after dyno's. Before dyno on Wednesday and after dyno Thursday afternoon,then driving car back to Naples. Staying in hotel nearby and spending most of the 2 days watching them do the work out of curiousity sake. Should be interesting.

RNSL65

I’m close to do the Kleemann ECU upgrade on my SL65-AMG, but wants to know if I should make the TCU as-well?
What gain and/or benefit will the TCU do on the SL65-AMG, as it already have the speedshift program?
Anybody?

MarkoCL65

In my experience torque numbers can vary substantially on the same car. My car downshifts on the dyno, even when in M mode. This makes it difficult to get a proper torque reading. If you floor the throttle too soon the car downshifts. A skilled operator is needed who knows to depress the accelerator pedal at a rate that produces the most power earliest in the powerband without downshifting. This is difficult to do and probably the reason you see torque readings all over the place with these cars. My car made 912 RWTQ when we mastered the application of the throttle. I don't see a Kleeman tune producing that much torque. Just my honest opinion. I will try to get my car on the dyno with 93 octane. I'm curious.

TMC M5

I am actually extrapolating the torque #'s based on the speed on the dyno vs calibrated rpm. If I compare the rwhp between the KLEEMANN dyno and the VRP dyno (also done over speed) the KLEEMANN tune is making significantly more power. Both cars have the same transmission, gears and I presume the VRP car is on the stock wheel/tire package. So they both should have the same relative RPM's at the same speed. The results (as best as I can read off the 3rd gear dynos) is as follows:
VRP660 KLEEMANN
72mph: 405rwhp 484rwhp (about 3,400RPM in 3rd gear)
73mph: 440rwhp 502rwhp (about 3,450RPM)
74mph: 457rwhp 511rwhp (about 3,500RPM)
75mph: 459rwhp 518rwhp (about 3,550RPM)
80mph: 482rwhp 535rwhp (about 3,800RPM)
85mph: 510rwhp 560rwhp (about 4,050RPM)
90mph: 535rwhp 567rwhp (about 4,300RPM)
95mph: 540rwhp 572rwhp (about 4,550RPM)
97mph: 550rwhp 573rwhp (about 4,650RPM)
100mph: 540rwhp 575rwhp (about 4,800RPM)

If you go with the fiction that the above RPM's are correct... the VRP660 peaks at about 686-690rwtq at about 3,500RPM (74mph). The KLEEMANN at that same 74mph (3,500RPM) is at 767rwtq. The rwhp differential is still 54rwhp regardless if it is the correct RPM. Even if it were off by 200RPM (3,700RPM) it would change the TQ #'s to 649 for the VRP and 725 for the KLEEMANN tune.

I agree..I don't think the KLEEMANN tune would see 912rwtq either....unless it was custom tuned for 100 octane and had the VRP upgrades. I am not sure how this particular tune would react with the VRP upgrades. I was merely trying to do a comparison between KLEEMANN tune and VRP660 tune.

Tom

MarkoCL65

Which VRP 65 was this? Was it run on 91 or 93 octane? That also makes a big difference.

TMC M5

Marko:

It was the one VRP dynoed last year for their VRP660 package. I mentioned that it had 91 octane.

Tom

MarkoCL65

I dynoed 635RWHP with my stock intercoolers btw. 100 octane. It was also called the VRP660.

RNSL65

@MarkoCL65
Doing a ECU upgrade on my SL65-AMG, will it benefit doing the TCU as-well?
What gain and/or benefit will the TCU do on the SL65-AMG, as it already have the speedshift program?
Thank You!

TMC M5

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...g65-vr660.html

I was talking about the dyno above.

The 635rwhp is really impressive. Did you also put the stock airboxes back for that dyno run? They should call your 100 octane tune VR760.

Tom

JackStraw

https://mbworld.org/forums/3371015-post77.html

RNSL65

@JackStraw - Thanks!

mpignatta

I took advantage of the discount for Kleeman on my SL65 and am extremely happy. Quick turnaround and flawless execution.

In my case, I needed to find a better gas station than the one I used to go. Apparently the most Ethanol the gas had, the most chance for misfire.

I would appreciate any advice on what gas might work better. So far I use Sunoco and the car has not misfired again and even noticed an MPG increase.

MarkoCL65

Once you exceed torque limits, speedshift is disabled. Hitting these limits (once ECU is tuned) causes slower shifting.

My car is performing quite well without the TCU upgrade. Most people would be satisfied with that type of performance. There are many levels of TCU upgrades. I would recommend one that doesn't sacrifice your transmission's lifespan and improves performance moderately.

TMC M5

GeorgeJ:

Any updates on the before and after dynos?

Tom

GeorgeJ

Here is the before and after Dyno readings. I had the ECU CF Airboxes and Intercooler Pump Upgrade done. As you can see we had some wheel spin on the dyno,( squiggly line)but nonetheless you can see I went from 522.20 RWHP and 648.23 Torque to 587.77 RWHP and 729.47 Torque. I'm very happy with the big increase in power. Now I just have to get bigger tires because I'm spinning the hell out of these!

RENNtech Dyno Reading.pdf

westcott

Glad to see you got your money's worth!!!