AMG GT Sedan
03-12-2018, 03:21 PM
#77
Member
03-12-2018, 03:27 PM
#78
To be clear, I wasn't trying to knock Japanese design. Lexus decided a couple years back to embrace the beauty of sharp creases and jagged shapes and it's really working for them. I was just pointing out that this seems to be a major departure from what I think of as "BMW." Further, if history is any indication, the production version of this concept will look considerably softer and more G37ish than what we already see here.
The following users liked this post:
Mike@Vossen (07-06-2018)
03-12-2018, 04:20 PM
#79
Member
To be clear, I wasn't trying to knock Japanese design. Lexus decided a couple years back to embrace the beauty of sharp creases and jagged shapes and it's really working for them. I was just pointing out that this seems to be a major departure from what I think of as "BMW." Further, if history is any indication, the production version of this concept will look considerably softer and more G37ish than what we already see here.
If BMW’s recent history is any indicator that their most recent concept vehicles are basically production cars without door handles and smaller inconspicuous mirrors. I have a exercise for those of you who argue BMW dramatically changes the look of their vehicles from concept to production form.
Here below are photos of the M4 concept from 4 years ago. Right below each concept photo(top) is the actual production car(bottom). I just want you all to scan over these photos and tell me what major changes you can see that were made to the body before the production car launched. The same can be said for several of the other concepts vehicles that made production e.i. BMW i8, i3, 4 series concepts. My rebuttal is simple, long ago are the days where manufacturers like bmw debuted awesome looking concepts only to later show off a heavily watered down production car that looks totally different.
BMW M4 concept
production BMW M4
BMW M4 concept
production BMW M4
03-13-2018, 10:35 AM
#80
Super Member
They should have either figured out a way to make it work, or not create it at all. Now they've watered down the GT brand. The AMG GT was supposed to be Mercedes' version of the Porsche 911. Porsche didn't call their Panamera the "Porsche 911 Sedan".
03-13-2018, 10:38 AM
#81
Brands are just tools that companies use to manipulate consumers - so it makes no difference to me what they call what. It's whether or not a car is worth my time or not, that's the question.
03-13-2018, 11:16 AM
#82
Member
Why are you so convinced the AMG GT 4 door coupé is “watering” the AMG GT brand down? The AMG brand has always been regular production Mercedes models tuned and suped up for drag racing and track use. The GT coupé sports car has only been around for 3 years now, the 911 has been around for 76 years. No one has driven the GT sedan yet, but we can speculate it will drive similarly to the E63-S sedan or slightly better. The E63-S is more powerful, faster, brakes just as good and can probably hang closely behind a AMG GT-S coupé on a closed driving circuit.
I’m not seeing where this new addition to the AMG family is watering anything down. Yes it’s not based on the actual coupé, but there is no way the Mercedes engineers could make a all aluminum platform built specifically for a 2 door sports car morph into 4 door sports car. Aston Martin tried that already and has failed miserably with the stretched DB9 aka “Rapide”.
Last edited by qmciver; 03-13-2018 at 11:19 AM.
03-13-2018, 12:16 PM
#84
Member
You don’t have to take my word for it, Read it for yourself. A repsectable car publication in the car enthusiasts world known as Car and Driver tested both the AMG GT-S and the E63-S sedan around VIR. The results from their lighting lap series were staggering for both vehicles. Most impressive was the E63-S. The caveat was that the “900lb” heavier 2018 E63-S was only 4 seconds slower a lap around VIR than the phenomenal AMG GT-S. Listed below is a little excerpt from their article as well as links to both write ups.
Car and Driver opinion of the E63-S
“Unlike AMGs of a decade ago, this car can turn and brake with the best of them. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires pull 1.00 g in Turn 1, and the all-wheel-drive traction allows the E63 S to exit that turn at 75.7 mph, trailing only the GT R, Camaro ZL1 1LE, and 911 Turbo S. This sets up a very fast entrance to one of VIR’s trickiest corners, Turn 3—or NASCAR Bend.”
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...p-2017-feature
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...p-2015-feature
Last edited by qmciver; 03-13-2018 at 12:23 PM.
03-13-2018, 01:06 PM
#85
Super Moderator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Land of 10,000 lakes
Posts: 9,984
Received 3,171 Likes
on
1,977 Posts
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
This is what AMG does. AMG history is one of being a tuner and 95% of it's total sales are beefed up MB's. They do sell a few of the cars that you seem to consider sports cars but the AMG brand does not equal AMG GT. That's a relatively new gig for them (directly going after 911's) and that's why it is so impressive that they have come so far in such period of time.
The following users liked this post:
Mike@Vossen (07-06-2018)
03-13-2018, 01:10 PM
#87
Senior Member
It will be a big seller, and a huge performer. Tobias Moers at Geneva said its another level up from the E63, said to expect a N'ring time in the 7:30s range.
03-13-2018, 02:23 PM
#88
Super Member
You don’t have to take my word for it, Read it for yourself. A repsectable car publication in the car enthusiasts world known as Car and Driver tested both the AMG GT-S and the E63-S sedan around VIR. The results from their lighting lap series were staggering for both vehicles. Most impressive was the E63-S. The caveat was that the “900lb” heavier 2018 E63-S was only 4 seconds slower a lap around VIR than the phenomenal AMG GT-S. Listed below is a little excerpt from their article as well as links to both write ups.
Car and Driver opinion of the E63-S
“Unlike AMGs of a decade ago, this car can turn and brake with the best of them. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires pull 1.00 g in Turn 1, and the all-wheel-drive traction allows the E63 S to exit that turn at 75.7 mph, trailing only the GT R, Camaro ZL1 1LE, and 911 Turbo S. This sets up a very fast entrance to one of VIR’s trickiest corners, Turn 3—or NASCAR Bend.”
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...p-2017-feature
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...p-2015-feature
03-13-2018, 02:56 PM
#89
Member
I love that we are splitting hairs about track times of fast AMG family sedans vs purpose built 2 seater sport cars. I honestly don’t care enough about this off topic tread to continue conversing on the subject matter. If you’ll read my original post I wasn’t stating a fact I clearly said “it can probably hang closely behind a AMG GT-S.” The AMG GT-S is a phenomenal car, I’m not here to try put the AMG GT on blast. But can we all applaud the fact the AMG is producing family sedans that weigh 4600 lbs and swivel around corners like a “mid engine car” (according to Car and Driver) and go 155 mph on the longest straight at VIR?
The whole reason I even mentioned the E63-S in my orginal post was to use it as a bases to establish that the highly anticipated and yet to be driven AMG GT 4 door coupé will potentially be the fastest 4 door car money can buy and potentially match the performance numbers of a V8 GT sportcar it’s named after even though it’s based on the MRA architecture. We still haven’t even seen or got officially word from AMG on the hybrid GT 73 4 door. With 800hp that car should easily be able to close that 4 second gap or “hang with the AMG GT coupé.
Last edited by qmciver; 03-14-2018 at 11:08 PM.
03-13-2018, 03:07 PM
#90
Super Member
I agree that traditionally AMG referred to 4WD sedans with plenty of horsepower. Porsche showed with Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid a sedan can "hang with" the 911 Turbo and it looks like Mercedes is trying to do the same.
03-13-2018, 03:08 PM
#91
Member
I like Tobias Moers(he seems like a real gear head) and if he says he thinks the AMG GT 4 door can run a 7:30 around the Nürburgring I believe him. That’s 7:30 matches the the newest Chevy Corvette ZR1 tested there last summer. I wonder if he was referring to the 63 or 73?
Last edited by qmciver; 03-13-2018 at 03:12 PM.
03-13-2018, 03:41 PM
#92
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 2,441
Received 950 Likes
on
571 Posts
‘24 BMW iX M60
I like Tobias Moers(he seems like a real gear head) and if he says he thinks the AMG GT 4 door can run a 7:30 around the Nürburgring I believe him. That’s 7:30 matches the the newest Chevy Corvette ZR1 tested there last summer. I wonder if he was referring to the 63 or 73?
03-13-2018, 11:11 PM
#93
I love that we are splitting hairs about track times of fast AMG family sedans vs purpose built 2 seater sport cars. I honestly don’t care enough about this off topic tread to continue conversing on the subject matter. If you’ll read my original post I wasn’t stating a fact I clearly said “it can probably hang closely behind a AMG GT-S.” The AMG GT-S is a phenomenal car, I’m not here to try put the AMG GT on blast. But can we all applaud the fact the AMG is producing family sedans that weigh 4600 lbs and swivel around corners like a “mid engine car” (according to Car and Driver) and go 155 mph on the longest straight at VIR?
The whole reason I even mentioned the E63-S in my orginal post was to use it as a bases to establish that the highly anticipated and yet to be driven AMG GT 4 door coupé will potentially be the fastest 4 door car money can buy and potentially match the performance numbers of a V8 GT sportcar it’s named after even though it’s based on the MRA architecture. We still haven’t even seen or got officially word from AMG on the hybrid GT 73 4 door. With 800hp that car should easily be to close that 4 second gap or “hang with the AMG GT coupé.
03-15-2018, 01:43 AM
#95
Super Member
What reputable auto magazine would make a comparison between a semi pro driver in a souped up luxo barge sedan vs a novice driver in a sports car?
Ridiculous.
03-15-2018, 08:18 AM
#96
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kenilworth, il usa
Posts: 2,924
Received 378 Likes
on
244 Posts
'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
You still don't get it.
The difference in even on track performance between cars made for it vs luxo barges as you call them, is becoming negligible for the most of us.GTS or GT4, regardless, their limits are beyond your abilities anyway, either car is great everywhere, you choose what tickles your senses the most....
03-15-2018, 03:48 PM
#97
Super Member
You still don't get it.
The difference in even on track performance between cars made for it vs luxo barges as you call them, is becoming negligible for the most of us.GTS or GT4, regardless, their limits are beyond your abilities anyway, either car is great everywhere, you choose what tickles your senses the most....
Furthermore by your logic we all should be driving a Tesla Model S in Ludicrous mode since it spanks Ferraris and Lambos.
A sports car is more enjoyable for many of us to drive which is why we own one. We favor balance, handling and how it performs on the twisties, canyon carving, even as a daily driver.
Newsflash, a pro driver in a C300 beats a novice is a GTR. If that makes you feel better for owning a sedan then good for you.
03-15-2018, 11:22 PM
#98
Member
Funny how the conversation goes into “diluting brand” and “performance around track”
1) agree with the origin of AMG (beefed up MB) and therefore hard to say ...”dilution”
2) Perfomance comparison ? Who cares... beyond the number is how the car feels and drives ...its okay to need more space and 4 doors...and have great performance too....
The real interesting discussion and opinions, is about the design and looks ....exterior and interior ....
A) I don’t think the exterior design looks good from many angles ..
Interior: I don’t like the big rectangle screen from other MB for what is intended to be a “pure AMG”....This is where they could have created an AMG DNA vs..the beefing up of MB cars approach....
B) it is awfully close to a CLS design ...therefore not very unique ....
C) in similar price range, BMW seems to have come up with a pretty cool design with the M8 GC (assuming it stays very close to the Geneva car).
1) agree with the origin of AMG (beefed up MB) and therefore hard to say ...”dilution”
2) Perfomance comparison ? Who cares... beyond the number is how the car feels and drives ...its okay to need more space and 4 doors...and have great performance too....
The real interesting discussion and opinions, is about the design and looks ....exterior and interior ....
A) I don’t think the exterior design looks good from many angles ..
Interior: I don’t like the big rectangle screen from other MB for what is intended to be a “pure AMG”....This is where they could have created an AMG DNA vs..the beefing up of MB cars approach....
B) it is awfully close to a CLS design ...therefore not very unique ....
C) in similar price range, BMW seems to have come up with a pretty cool design with the M8 GC (assuming it stays very close to the Geneva car).
The following users liked this post:
qmciver (03-15-2018)
03-15-2018, 11:48 PM
#99
Member
I agree with you 100% the thread was thrown off course focusing on can a E63-S stay on the *** of a much lighter dedicated sports called the GT-S around a race circuit. Who cares.
I sure don’t. But I agree that Mercedes could’ve did a better job differentiating this new 4 door GT from the CLS and E-class. I understand that they share underpinnings, but do they all have to share interiors too. I truly believe once the smoke clears BMW could potentially be the winner here if they truly introduce a production M8 GC that looks like the concept and drives similarly or better than the new M5 I’ve been reading about.I love all cars especially Porsche’s and AMG’s I own both dedicated sports cars and luxury sports sedans and I have to say the cars serves different purposes but all excite me when I drive them for various reasons. Let’s please stopping arguing here and start focusing on the conversation has AMG made a mistake or will this be a big success like the first gen CLS was in 2006.
I really want to see this AMG GT 4 in person before I judge it’s looks. In my personal opinion the GT coupé don’t always photograph as well as one might expect it to. I don’t know why, but when I see them in person they always look much better. Maybe the same effect will conjure with the 4 door. Tobias says it’s gonna be a very very fast car around the Nürburgring. I hope they debut the hybrid GT 73 4 door at Paris Motor Saloń although it could show up at Frankfurt.
Last edited by qmciver; 03-15-2018 at 11:50 PM.
The following users liked this post:
thebishman (03-16-2018)
03-16-2018, 12:22 AM
#100
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: DMV
Posts: 1,142
Received 121 Likes
on
75 Posts
AMG GTBS, AMG GTR Pro, AMG GT, C63 AMG, Porsche Panamera 4S, RX-7 FC Turbo II
As a proud owner of a C63 AMG which just happens to be a Mercedes Luxury sedan that can be tracked if the owner desires I have to disagree with your above statement. Mercedes AMG makes some the most comfortable and snug performance seats in the business. The the Wing spoiler is part of a optional track package that the purchaser can choose to add to the car if they drive the car at very high speeds like 180 mph. I’ve chased down guys driving Lamborghini Huracans and Acura NSX’s at my last track event in a so called Luxury car. This car does serve a purpose, it may not be your cup of tea, but I have no doubt I will see these things flying around some closed courses once it debuts. In fact I prefer driving my luxury car over my 2900lb 981 Cayman S which is fun to drive fast, but lacks the torque that I want to pass up slower moving cars above 100 mph. In the hands of the right driver these modern AMG sedans (particularly the E63S and C63S) are brutally fast and shouldn’t be underestimated.
