Boston-SLtics

Hi there,

Our manual states that a car records a lot of statistics about car's movement and operation such as speed, whether or not brakes were used, turn signal usage, etc. A Manual also states that MBenz will retrieve this data and give it to Law Authorities if requested. Now, i have nothing to hide but i still would like to enjoy my complete privacy in the car and be sure that insurance companies would not be able to get an access to this data.

Is there a way to erase car stats and/or disable recording of such data?

Itzkirb

wow, i really need to read the manual

LovinMercedes

This is actually quite typical in high end cars. I did not realize that MB had this feature but from my experiences you were never able to erase the information.

Actually, in my Vanquish S owners manual it had a warning about this feature and it actually advised that the informaton could be used by the authorities as information in an investigation against you. I don't remember the exact wording but it was certainly something like this. It blew my mind when I read this.

ClayJ

This has been posted on - I know that I have posted on this subject - so you might try a thread search to gather a little more information....

To my knowledge there is no way to erase the information logged, nor to stop the logging.

You can fight the accessing of the information logged, in court, should the need ever arise.

meegle

I had read elsewhere that this "spy" works like a black box on planes. It continuously records and re-records over the previous data in certain intervals so that law enforcement is able to get a better understanding on what happened prior to an accident.

lorinserbenz

From what I understand the car only records 30 seconds of data.. to be used in the event of collision.

There is no way car companies would spend the money to store say a months worth of data. That would require an enormous amount and costly flash memory or a hard disk which wouldnt last very long in a car environment.

harpz

well actually all you are storing is the data right? No pictures or videos, but still you would need an extremely powerful processor to accomplish that (record monthly), hard drive wouldn't be a problem, black box, sufficient protection (I did an experiment, used memory foam bubble rap then shoe box and then underpad carpeting...the processor took a beating and still worked no problems. the hardrive themselve are bullet proof (I'm not 100% sure) ) so all the car really needs is throttle position, brake position, steering position and if any driver aids came on right? I think that is doable but highly unlikely. + it records only the last 20 seconds (that's what i thought) so maybe 30 seconds. With that little time being recorded, and if the cop wanted to see all the data just idle the car and it would be clean right? And I don't think there is an easy way to get the info either

AMG 17GT

harpz

I thought it only had you top speeds I got into trouble from my father when the SA asked what i was doing going 250 KM/h ....now you have scared me my friend...data accompanied with GPS tracking would be bad. More and more cars are having GPS so imagine the possibilities!

Romeo how sure are you?

Boston-SLtics

Let's take this issue apart. As i see it, we have to consider 3 major points - legal, mechanical and marketing:

Point #1 (legality). The law states (the Constitutional rights), that if there is an expectation of privacy, such as at home, an entity that surveillances a person needs a warrant. Usually, a person in a car has less expectation of privacy, but still a cop can search a vehicle if he has a reasonable believe that something illegal is happening (cop can stop for a broken tail-light and he can search if he observes something inside a car that seems to be illegal). Therefore, if nothing illigal is happening, no one can observe us and our cars without a warrant. The funny part comes when a buyer consents to buy a car with such a device at a dealership. All of us have signed some papers that include a clause that states that we agree with everything that MB installed in our cars. However, this consent is UNCONSCIONABLE, that is where one party in a contract has huge bargaining power and forces a smaller party, like us, to enter into a contract and we comply because we have no other alternative (and this clause is hidden !!!). In such situations, courts can invalidate a clause in a contract that gives MB an ability to observe us and give us a protection against such surveillance. MB must remove these devices.

Point #2 (mechanical). I am sure that it is relatively simple to remove some chip and disconnect some wire, so that a car would not record any data. After all, all of us here are intelligent enough to find a way how to do it, otherwise we would not be driving such beautiful cars. The problem arises - if we do it, can MB waive a warranty and therefore punish those, who did it.

Point #3 (marketing). As was mentioned in a previous post, mostly high-end cars are equipped with such devices. But, it would be an enourmous marketing blow to any manufacturer, who releases any compromising data about any of its customers to anyone, and thus, losing trust of its customers. The question is - why do they install these devices and what's the point?

What are your thoughts?

P.S. Again, its not about breaking laws and concealing it, it is about a reasonable expectation of privacy. I don't really care what data my car records, it is all about distrust towards MBenz manufacturer.

uk1

I don't know what the concern is here.

The stats do not prove who was driving so what use are they, except .........

The stats aren't going to be used for it's current journey, exceptionally if there's been a fatal accident. It isn't going to be used for a simple speed prosecution because the police aren't able to calibrate MB's systems and prove their accuracy to a court. Further - they will be relying on their own systems.

This system is therefore designed to assist in understadning why someone got killed and to help MB develop safer cars and cannot effectively be used to spy on drivers.

Jeff

Vik888

By the time they get a court order to get the records, you could have driven several hundred miles and overwritten the records.

velvet fog

Not if your car is smashed so badly it can't be driven. It will sit in a police impound yard until they have gathered any data needed to support he investigation.

harpz

If they alread have this recording device, how much longer until the police can just download the information when you get pulled over?
I don't mind the black box too much i don't like the thought, idea but have to live with it. I'm just worried about where it can go, especially when accompanied with gps.

AMG 17GT

First off, I have verified what i posted before from civil plaintiff experts...and they concur its a matter of time before its all linked up with gps, however, they do not believe the gps part will pass a constitutional attack....I didnt want to get too deep here but i want it to be clear.... You do have a fourth amend right to privacy and as such an expectation thereof, but this exists primarily in your own home and it protects you against unreasonable searches and seizures (Exactly what is unreasonable is what is litigated), but they can surveill all they want from the outside....OK autos...different animal.... the courts have pretty much destroyed any right to privacy through case law.....u should read the cases through the years ...its like dominoes......first the car, then the glovebox, then the trunk then the passenger then the passengers pocketbook or briefcase on and on until quite frankly i dont know whats left...and officers have become trained experts on how to lie when testifying...i am not making this up i have had hundreds of cases like this.........but the reason it is this way is because driving is a privilage not a constitutional right and the gov has a valid public safety concern when your driving a 5000pd weapon on their roads....so with all that being said your right to privacy is not contractual issue through mercedes.......In conclusion your right to privacy is eroded because mercedes as a third party is not the government and therefore cannot violate your privacy rights.............. the constitution only protects against governmental violations and/or intrusions...... get it...aha!!!!!.............So if you have a serious accident the car will be impounded and the evidence preserved by mercedes the company and it will be admitted because a plaintiff (A person, not the gov) needs it as evidence of negligence...its that simple..........Sorry...... I have a problem with it as well......And as a final point, mercedes will decline warranty coverage if it finds abuse....wait till the e55 guys start blowing up their engines youll see......Hope this helps

harpz

I wasn't saying you were a phony, just wanted to make sure your were sure..lol...yeah that helps, now i'm going to look at the canadian laws and see what they cover...


Maybe we should warn the E55 AMG drivers? lol

bigmac834

I know they do that with the BMW M3 SMG.

Grey.Coupe

I read where in all but two states that the recordings of the audio from the interior of wrecked cars confirm that the most often used exclamations just prior to impact were "OhmyGod!" and "Look out!"

In Louisiana and Mississippi those two were second and third after
"Here! Hold my beer and watch this!"

Dans_SL

Big Brother? I know my car, she likes me, and she'd sooner take the 5th Amendment than testify against me If it begins to look like we are entering that 1984 world, let's all trade in our new cars for old 1984 models (before black boxes were even invented) Here's what I heard, if there's an accident where an air bag is deployed, then a few seconds of data is saved in the Black box... (speed, acceleration, yaw, brakes, gas, steering etc). Yes, there are some people in jail today, some for life, because they were driving DRUNK (and killed someone) and their car proved they were speeding and didn't touch the brake nor even swerve when the impact occurred. This data is very compelling to any Jury. So the car data was used against them as part of the case, but it took more than the data alone (ie- blood alcohol level, witnesses etc). Someday you may be right, GPS and longer data memories in black boxes might tell Big Brother where we are and what we do at all times.

By the way, Rented cars already have much of this capability, that's how they know that you were speeding and crossed the State line etc so they can charge you more Ouch that HERTZ Drive Carefully

Bounty Hunter

Just wear one of these --> and all is well

AMG 17GT

Perfect.

SL600 V12

This has been true of almost any car built after 1996. My friend's 1998 Kia Sephia did the same thing. It is not just luxury cars.

ZedStyle

i think you're confusing OBD-II with Event Data Recorders.... i can pretty much guarantee that kia's don't have EDR'...

here's more info:

http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/edr.html