SL/R230: Want to purchase an R230, don't know where to begin!
03-06-2017, 07:11 PM
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1988 560SL (Sold)
Want to purchase an R230, don't know where to begin!
Hello, all. We just sold our 1988 560SL, after almost ten years of driving her. <<sigh>> We are retiring and moving south in the fall and just didn't feel the manual lift soft top was a good fit in a place where it can suddenly rain two inches in a half hour! Anyway, our intent is to pick up a 2003 or newer SL in the $15K to $20K range. Just doing a simple search on Autotrader or Carfax shows that we will have no problems doing that, but my fear is, I know next to nothing about this series of MB. I tried searching this specific forum (R230) but found an overwhelming amount of threads and simply couldn't narrow anything down to useful info.
It would be greatly appreciated if any of you would be willing to pass on your words of expertise and wisdom, even if it's a simple "Beware of model year 200*, because_____________." Or, if there is a thread for would-be purchasers and I have simply missed it, please feel free to direct me there!
Thanks for any help you can give. Really looking forward to getting started with this. Can't stand the thought of going into this summer without my 560!
It would be greatly appreciated if any of you would be willing to pass on your words of expertise and wisdom, even if it's a simple "Beware of model year 200*, because_____________." Or, if there is a thread for would-be purchasers and I have simply missed it, please feel free to direct me there!
Thanks for any help you can give. Really looking forward to getting started with this. Can't stand the thought of going into this summer without my 560!
03-07-2017, 12:14 AM
#2
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The R230 is a very complex car - one of the most complex machines on the road. You will need to do some repairs and maintenance that will require SDS. If you arr going to pay for these services, then budget several thousand$ per year. My advice, spend more money and get a newer car (MY2009+) with less miles.
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tsberkey (03-07-2017)
03-07-2017, 12:27 AM
#3
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beware of all model years as all have ABC (at least in the US, and no the newer 07+ ABC revision is not going to be much more reliable long term), which sooner or later will have hoses leak and burst regardless of how well they are maintained as a pressurized hydraulic hose (especially those subjected to engine compartment heat) will sooner or later have problems. Pumps, valve blocks and other system components are not cheap, especially if you can't DIY.
Don't waste your money buying a 500. If you are going to deal with the maintenance cost and headache at least get a 55.
other common issues: soft close trunk, front convertible top latch will be first to leak hydraulic fluid, rear trunk flap covers break, gear shifter, crank position sensor, tranny electrical connector (will begin leaking and wick fluid up the electrical wires and ruin the transmission computer), tranny conductor plates, gas tank baffles break (only earlier model cars), leaking rear window trunk seal (redesigned in 05, but still notorious for leaks), plastic tensioner pulleys cracking and breaking, SBC (sensotronic brake control) unit needs replaced after 300k brake actuations (usually between 75-125k miles), front lower control arm bushing usually are hammered at around 40k, tranny mounts at 50k, and engine mounts at 100k, ABC accumulators will need replaced about every 10/yr 100k (often times even sooner), and I'm sure there's a few other things I've missed.
Buying a nearly 15 year old R230 can get very expensive very quickly. Buying one that has had most of these problems recently attended to will save you thousands of dollars even if the purchase price is more.
If you plan on doing any work yourself, you need to buy a STAR tool, which is the diagnostic system used by MB. Many systems on the car are near impossible to diagnose or even maintain without one. If you don't plan on doing the work yourself, plan on spending at least a few thousand a year in repairs and maintenance.
Having said all that, when working properly, the R230, particularly the AMGs, are a dream. The issue is that often that dream can turn into a nightmare, particularly if you purchase a 'cheap' one that has been poorly maintained previously. You can easily drop 5 grand on one in a hurry if someone else is doing the work.
Don't waste your money buying a 500. If you are going to deal with the maintenance cost and headache at least get a 55.
other common issues: soft close trunk, front convertible top latch will be first to leak hydraulic fluid, rear trunk flap covers break, gear shifter, crank position sensor, tranny electrical connector (will begin leaking and wick fluid up the electrical wires and ruin the transmission computer), tranny conductor plates, gas tank baffles break (only earlier model cars), leaking rear window trunk seal (redesigned in 05, but still notorious for leaks), plastic tensioner pulleys cracking and breaking, SBC (sensotronic brake control) unit needs replaced after 300k brake actuations (usually between 75-125k miles), front lower control arm bushing usually are hammered at around 40k, tranny mounts at 50k, and engine mounts at 100k, ABC accumulators will need replaced about every 10/yr 100k (often times even sooner), and I'm sure there's a few other things I've missed.
Buying a nearly 15 year old R230 can get very expensive very quickly. Buying one that has had most of these problems recently attended to will save you thousands of dollars even if the purchase price is more.
If you plan on doing any work yourself, you need to buy a STAR tool, which is the diagnostic system used by MB. Many systems on the car are near impossible to diagnose or even maintain without one. If you don't plan on doing the work yourself, plan on spending at least a few thousand a year in repairs and maintenance.
Having said all that, when working properly, the R230, particularly the AMGs, are a dream. The issue is that often that dream can turn into a nightmare, particularly if you purchase a 'cheap' one that has been poorly maintained previously. You can easily drop 5 grand on one in a hurry if someone else is doing the work.
Last edited by carguyshu; 03-07-2017 at 12:31 AM.
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tsberkey (03-07-2017)
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03-07-2017, 07:39 AM
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1988 560SL (Sold)
YIKES! Glad I asked!!! Now, I'm a little (a lot) scared. That's really NOT what I want to look forward to in retirement, spending a few thousand a year on maintenance. Oh, well, I am glad there are people who have been through this and are willing to share that info beforehand. Thanks, guys.
03-07-2017, 08:50 AM
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I know that it's a dice roll. I'm just a little nervous. Going into retirement, with a far smaller income than we had in our employed days, it will be a quite a bit more of a hit to our budget if the MB dealer says "Give me $2000!" I just have to decide how much of that risk I'm willing to take. Hopefully, by the time I get to FL, I'll know.
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03-07-2017, 12:17 PM
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03-07-2017, 03:29 PM
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Carguyshu, rudeney, by the amount of complaining and the long litany of problems one would think that we are rushing to sell our SL's however we still own them.
Why don't we also post the good about them, how they put a smile on your face when you drive them.
It would only be fair to prospective SL buyers who come to this forum for advice otherwise it's just weird to be bashing our own.
Indeed the ABC system has problems but it has been introduced in production 16 years ago so we have hardware and technology that is not really very new.
Why don't we also post the good about them, how they put a smile on your face when you drive them.
It would only be fair to prospective SL buyers who come to this forum for advice otherwise it's just weird to be bashing our own.
Indeed the ABC system has problems but it has been introduced in production 16 years ago so we have hardware and technology that is not really very new.
03-07-2017, 05:00 PM
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Carguyshu, rudeney, by the amount of complaining and the long litany of problems one would think that we are rushing to sell our SL's however we still own them.
Why don't we also post the good about them, how they put a smile on your face when you drive them.
It would only be fair to prospective SL buyers who come to this forum for advice otherwise it's just weird to be bashing our own.
Indeed the ABC system has problems but it has been introduced in production 16 years ago so we have hardware and technology that is not really very new.
Why don't we also post the good about them, how they put a smile on your face when you drive them.
It would only be fair to prospective SL buyers who come to this forum for advice otherwise it's just weird to be bashing our own.
Indeed the ABC system has problems but it has been introduced in production 16 years ago so we have hardware and technology that is not really very new.
Would you be willing to explain the ABC system that has been mentioned? I'm really new to that and haven't had time to even look it up, yet. Maybe you could give me the reader's digest version of it. Thanks for any input you can give, on EITHER side of the argument!
03-07-2017, 05:07 PM
#12
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gafitanu has it right. The good news is these cars accelerate until your eyes water, are tight in rain and drop the top in seconds for sun, can do donuts with friends, are rare to see on the streets (unlike a Vette), and ride very nice on the ABC suspension without loosening fillings. They get parked out front with the valet crowd, and many of us (me included) have never been stranded on multiple 3000 mile journeys.
You can't do that with many cars.
You can't do that with many cars.
03-07-2017, 05:11 PM
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gafitanu has it right. The good news is these cars accelerate until your eyes water, are tight in rain and drop the top in seconds for sun, can do donuts with friends, are rare to see on the streets (unlike a Vette), and ride very nice on the ABC suspension without loosening fillings. They get parked out front with the valet crowd, and many of us (me included) have never been stranded on multiple 3000 mile journeys.
You can't do that with many cars.
You can't do that with many cars.
03-07-2017, 06:16 PM
#14
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There can be a lot of scaremongering by owners that have been unfortunate with their SL's but not all SL's are the same. When buying an R230 there are a few common things to look out for.....
1. Check the ABC struts, hoses and resevoir for leaks and check the fluid is a nice light green colour. Ask the seller when the fluid was last changed, it should be done every 2 years. Brown or black ABC fluid is bad.
2. Check that the rubber seal between the bottom of the rear window and the trunk lid is not leaking, this is a common issue but is easy to fix.
3. Whilst in the trunk check in the spare wheel well for water (this is where the leaking seal dumps its water), if there is any or it looks damp check the PSE pump and the sponge that surrounds it, a wet pump or sponge is bad.
3. There is an airbox under one of the hood vents that can collect water if the drain is blocked, the drain empties in the nearest wheel well and needs to be clear. If the airbox has any water in it then water can overflow into the inside of the car which causes havoc with the electrics. If any of the underside of the carpet is wet then that is an indication the airbox has overflowed.
4. Check the rear wheel arches for rust, mud and water collects under the rim and causes rust. Front arches are aluminium so no issues there.
5. Lastly check all the electrics are working and the roof operates smoothly.
If you buy a bad R230 it will cost you so make sure at least the things mentioned are ok.
1. Check the ABC struts, hoses and resevoir for leaks and check the fluid is a nice light green colour. Ask the seller when the fluid was last changed, it should be done every 2 years. Brown or black ABC fluid is bad.
2. Check that the rubber seal between the bottom of the rear window and the trunk lid is not leaking, this is a common issue but is easy to fix.
3. Whilst in the trunk check in the spare wheel well for water (this is where the leaking seal dumps its water), if there is any or it looks damp check the PSE pump and the sponge that surrounds it, a wet pump or sponge is bad.
3. There is an airbox under one of the hood vents that can collect water if the drain is blocked, the drain empties in the nearest wheel well and needs to be clear. If the airbox has any water in it then water can overflow into the inside of the car which causes havoc with the electrics. If any of the underside of the carpet is wet then that is an indication the airbox has overflowed.
4. Check the rear wheel arches for rust, mud and water collects under the rim and causes rust. Front arches are aluminium so no issues there.
5. Lastly check all the electrics are working and the roof operates smoothly.
If you buy a bad R230 it will cost you so make sure at least the things mentioned are ok.
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tsberkey (03-07-2017)
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03-07-2017, 06:32 PM
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There can be a lot of scaremongering by owners that have been unfortunate with their SL's but not all SL's are the same. When buying an R230 there are a few common things to look out for.....
1. Check the ABC struts, hoses and resevoir for leaks and check the fluid is a nice light green colour. Ask the seller when the fluid was last changed, it should be done every 2 years. Brown or black ABC fluid is bad.
2. Check that the rubber seal between the bottom of the rear window and the trunk lid is not leaking, this is a common issue but is easy to fix.
3. Whilst in the trunk check in the spare wheel well for water (this is where the leaking seal dumps its water), if there is any or it looks damp check the PSE pump and the sponge that surrounds it, a wet pump or sponge is bad.
3. There is an airbox under one of the hood vents that can collect water if the drain is blocked, the drain empties in the nearest wheel well and needs to be clear. If the airbox has any water in it then water can overflow into the inside of the car which causes havoc with the electrics. If any of the underside of the carpet is wet then that is an indication the airbox has overflowed.
4. Check the rear wheel arches for rust, mud and water collects under the rim and causes rust. Front arches are aluminium so no issues there.
5. Lastly check all the electrics are working and the roof operates smoothly.
If you buy a bad R230 it will cost you so make sure at least the things mentioned are ok.
1. Check the ABC struts, hoses and resevoir for leaks and check the fluid is a nice light green colour. Ask the seller when the fluid was last changed, it should be done every 2 years. Brown or black ABC fluid is bad.
2. Check that the rubber seal between the bottom of the rear window and the trunk lid is not leaking, this is a common issue but is easy to fix.
3. Whilst in the trunk check in the spare wheel well for water (this is where the leaking seal dumps its water), if there is any or it looks damp check the PSE pump and the sponge that surrounds it, a wet pump or sponge is bad.
3. There is an airbox under one of the hood vents that can collect water if the drain is blocked, the drain empties in the nearest wheel well and needs to be clear. If the airbox has any water in it then water can overflow into the inside of the car which causes havoc with the electrics. If any of the underside of the carpet is wet then that is an indication the airbox has overflowed.
4. Check the rear wheel arches for rust, mud and water collects under the rim and causes rust. Front arches are aluminium so no issues there.
5. Lastly check all the electrics are working and the roof operates smoothly.
If you buy a bad R230 it will cost you so make sure at least the things mentioned are ok.
I just looked up what the ABC system was. Wow, I can see why those things are scary, when they go bad.
03-07-2017, 06:40 PM
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03-07-2017, 06:45 PM
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Question for you all, and don't shoot me: given my concerns (and dwindling resources, as a retiree), should I consider an SLK model? It seems to be far less complicated without the ABC system, and maybe that would suit our needs better. Thoughts?
03-07-2017, 09:27 PM
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I bought my 2003 SL500 about two years ago from the original owner. It had 17k miles. I replaced the original tires with Michelins. So far I've put about 10k miles on it with no issues.
While I'm knocking on wood........I find that most, if not all, car forums have far more complainers than praisers. I'm not suggesting that these ppl don't have issues, I'm simply suggesting that when ppl are happy they spend their leisure hours driving their cars because they're not searching for answers to car problems.
While I'm knocking on wood........I find that most, if not all, car forums have far more complainers than praisers. I'm not suggesting that these ppl don't have issues, I'm simply suggesting that when ppl are happy they spend their leisure hours driving their cars because they're not searching for answers to car problems.
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tsberkey (03-07-2017)
03-07-2017, 09:31 PM
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I bought my 2003 SL500 about two years ago from the original owner. It had 17k miles. I replaced the original tires with Michelins. So far I've put about 10k miles on it with no issues.
While I'm knocking on wood........I find that most, if not all, car forums have far more complainers than praisers. I'm not suggesting that these ppl don't have issues, I'm simply suggesting that when ppl are happy they spend their leisure hours driving their cars because they're not searching for answers to car problems.
While I'm knocking on wood........I find that most, if not all, car forums have far more complainers than praisers. I'm not suggesting that these ppl don't have issues, I'm simply suggesting that when ppl are happy they spend their leisure hours driving their cars because they're not searching for answers to car problems.
I agree about the negatives. I'm the same way. When things are going well, I'm not checking in as often as I should. Hopefully, I'll get lucky like you did. Thanks for the feedback.
03-07-2017, 09:47 PM
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A good alternative might be a Boxster or Cayman. Oldest model year Cayman is '06. I had a Cayman S MY '06 and it was a great car. Mid $20's should get you one. Fact is that any car of the vintage you're looking at will require some repairs and maintenance. ALL German cars can be money pits.
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03-07-2017, 09:55 PM
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2008 SL550
Response from a newbie...
It's been exactly one week since taking delivery of my 08 SL550 so here are some thoughts:
- I researched and confirmed the vehicle received vast amounts of maintenance over it's life thus far, all MB dealer performed.
- Recent work (within 7 months & 6k miles): Tranny/differential fluid change, motor mounts, brake flush, AC work, oil change, air filter.
- The dealer where I purchased the car performed a bunch of additional stuff including: new brakes, tires, fuel filter, performed rear deck flap update, serviced top mechanism, flushed ABC with new filter and oil change (again).
- I purchased an extended warranty for an additional 48 months/48k miles which covers just about every parts except typical wear items.
- The car drives like an absolute dream! She tracks straight, brakes beautifully, takes corners better than my Porsche, and can go like mad when asked.
- I wasn't too keen on the ABC suspension, mainly due to the potential issues posted on this and other forums, but I must admit that the system is fantastic. She holds the road and glides over bumps so much better than my C Class (traded in).
- She's a bit thirsty around town (@18mpg).
- I feel like I cheat on my wife everytime I grab the keys...
It's been exactly one week since taking delivery of my 08 SL550 so here are some thoughts:
- I researched and confirmed the vehicle received vast amounts of maintenance over it's life thus far, all MB dealer performed.
- Recent work (within 7 months & 6k miles): Tranny/differential fluid change, motor mounts, brake flush, AC work, oil change, air filter.
- The dealer where I purchased the car performed a bunch of additional stuff including: new brakes, tires, fuel filter, performed rear deck flap update, serviced top mechanism, flushed ABC with new filter and oil change (again).
- I purchased an extended warranty for an additional 48 months/48k miles which covers just about every parts except typical wear items.
- The car drives like an absolute dream! She tracks straight, brakes beautifully, takes corners better than my Porsche, and can go like mad when asked.
- I wasn't too keen on the ABC suspension, mainly due to the potential issues posted on this and other forums, but I must admit that the system is fantastic. She holds the road and glides over bumps so much better than my C Class (traded in).
- She's a bit thirsty around town (@18mpg).
- I feel like I cheat on my wife everytime I grab the keys...
Last edited by pfarah77; 03-07-2017 at 10:13 PM.
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tsberkey (03-07-2017)
03-07-2017, 09:58 PM
#24
Senior Member
Tsberkey, I am sure you probably read a lot about the ABC by now. Will you see the difference like from night to day? Drive a Corvette and immediately after drive the SL and you will see it. Or take one of those 270 degrees interstate ramp-offs at a speed that you would never do, like 80 and you will feel what ABC does. And this while I have the suspension set on comfort which is almost like my W211 airmatic.
Flowrider99 from U.K. is right, his #1 item is the most important. As I posted in another thread I had to change the valve block o-rings and that was only $10 because I did it myself and I had to change the pump (also myself), new pump $600. And maybe $100 worth of hydraulic oil. I have the SDS so I probably saved $3-4000 from the stealership. Actually that's what made me get an SDS when the dealer quoted me $1500 to do a "rodeo" which is a 15 min. procedure.
SL comes from the German Sport Lite, SLK is Sport Lite Kurz, where kurz means short. Try them both and then decide, it's smaller but you can get a SLK55 (I think) which should be fun.
Flowrider99 from U.K. is right, his #1 item is the most important. As I posted in another thread I had to change the valve block o-rings and that was only $10 because I did it myself and I had to change the pump (also myself), new pump $600. And maybe $100 worth of hydraulic oil. I have the SDS so I probably saved $3-4000 from the stealership. Actually that's what made me get an SDS when the dealer quoted me $1500 to do a "rodeo" which is a 15 min. procedure.
SL comes from the German Sport Lite, SLK is Sport Lite Kurz, where kurz means short. Try them both and then decide, it's smaller but you can get a SLK55 (I think) which should be fun.
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tsberkey (03-07-2017)
03-07-2017, 10:22 PM
#25
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One afternoon in 2004 a friend and I drove an SLK32, an SL55, an SL600, and an SL500. I remember the SLK being extraordinarily entertaining -- perhaps even more than the SLs.
In your situation on your budget I would also consider an R129, since it would have all the amenities of an R230 except for ABC, of course. The '99-'02 SL500 even has the same engine as the R230 SL500.
In your situation on your budget I would also consider an R129, since it would have all the amenities of an R230 except for ABC, of course. The '99-'02 SL500 even has the same engine as the R230 SL500.
