cougar694u

Hello!

I've replaced all the hydraulic cylinders for the roof on my 2004 SL55 (ordered from Top Hydraulics), topped off the fluid, and started working the roll bar up & down to help prime it. After a few tries, the roll bar seemed good, so I topped off the fluid again and moved on to operating the entire roof.

Took a few tries, but the trunk lifts up, roof unlocks, then nothing. I've worked the trunk back & forth several times, topped off the fluid. It sounds like the pump is supplying pressure, but I don't really see any movement outside of the roof unlock.

I checked and double checked the lines are in the right ports, all is well there. With the roof unlocked, I opened the bypass and manually moved the top to lowered position, closed the bypass and tried to complete the operation, but the switch wouldn't do anything. Manually put the top back up, and had the system lock everything and it worked fine.

I can't tell if this is related to air in the lines, air in the pump, or a faulty cylinder replacement (either I crimped a line or something else).

I plan on giving Top Hydraulics a call here shortly, but wanted to also have a discussion here.

Any ideas?

chad500sl

I cycled the top as normal to remove air when I redid all cylinders. No special process was needed. It sounds like one of the electronic switch is unplugged or not working.

There are limit switches in the top around the roof unlock. Maybe you shifted the lock a little while installing the cylinder, causing the unlock to not register. They are easy to see without the roof liner

cougar694u

Thanks for that. I should have added that like most folks here, I replaced the roof latch, then the trunk lift failed. I replaced that one, then the roll bar started going slow, so I decided to replace everything else. So prior to replacing the cylinders for the roof lift, trunk locks, & roll bar, the roof latch sensors were working, and this current work didn't involve anything under the headliner.

ml320x5

Need more info about when it was stop. Did the windows moved at all? Was the trunk traveled all the way to the end, vertical position? Did the sides flaps ever came up?

As I understand, when you lift the switch, top latches unlocked, trunk went up to end position and stop. Now there're micro switches (under headliner) up front for the lock unlatch, make sure they are good (guess you refer them as roof latch sensors and you said they were good). Once the trunk travels to vertical, there's also a micro switch to tell the system before next step can be done. I would make sure the trunk up switch is working first before going any further.

It will take few try before it will get rid of all the air. It's a self bleeding system. Cycle the roll bar will speed it up.
Case like this, I will manually close the roof and start all over. To lock, you will have manually guide the roof top panel forward and lock it with the hex key. Unlock trunk lid latches on both side, access through a round cap and close the trunk.

Edit Trunk lifted then both unlock micro switches up front should be OK. Make sure trunk travels all the way to the end and check the trunk up switch (S119).

Thrasher5621

Good Morning,
I have done several tops. In fact... of the SL class vehicle I have bought.. ALL have had roof not working issues. The good part, you do a LOT of trouble shooting!
As you have seen the top is a complex set of movement and switches, all of which have to be in the correct position. This is in addition to things like ABS not having errors.
When you replace cylinders it takes several cycles to clear the air out. When it stops making progress reverse and top the tank off. make sure the "bleed" screw on the tank is opened to release any trapped pressure. This is the screw you would turn to allow for manual operation.
When things are working good you should not see any air bubbles in the tank. If you fluid is "milky" looking, you have air.
While the lines are small.... it still has to push the fluid through the system.
Not saying this is you problem.... just a few ideas to kick around.
Mark

cougar694u

Good shout. The windows do move down as you would expect. That being said, the trunk flaps never come up, so you may be on to something with the trunk switch.

I talked with Klaus yesterday, he also suggested checking the roof lock microswitches.

I have some checkpoints to go through now, thanks!

cougar694u

So I noticed my driver's door buttons quit working suddenly. They worked when I started because I lowered the windows and moved the seat with the switches on the door. I suspect this may be part of the problem because I can no longer control the driver's side window.

Thoughts?

Here's a video from when I first replaced the roof lock and everything worked fine then: https://photos.app.*******/pUzXsMeGsdmDSF2w8

*Edit: Link is obfuscated, try this: https://photos app goo gl/pUzXsMeGsdmDSF2w8
replace the spaces with dots

**EDIT 2**
That may be red herring. The rear window moves all the way down on both sides, but reading the Vario Roof Diagnostic Aid doc says:
Stage 1: Next (y5) energizes, causing cylinder 3 to unlock the front Vario roof locks. Switches S69/2 & /3 confirm it’s not locked. Next, cylinders 4 & 5 unlock the tubular frame. Switches S118/1 & S118/2 confirm it’s not locked. Front windows move to short stroke position, rear windows open completely. Cylinder 8 causes trunk lid to move to the raised position. Switch S119 confirms trunk lid is raised.
Stage 2: Side flaps are folded out. Switches S126/1 and S127/1 confirm both side flaps folded out completely.

It would appear that I don't make it to Stage 2. As pointed out, I need to check S119. I wish I could leave work to go "play" with my car, lol!

Thrasher5621

While it could be the switch... I would think not. When the top goes into operation the windows are being controlled by the ECM. Switched are out of it at that point. While anything is possible... I would not believe it is the switch.
Some where there is a switch that ins't giving the ECM that warm happy feeling. I am sure this comes as no revelation to you. The issues is finding it. Worse yet... a switch that fails intermittently. Those are TOUGH!!!!
.
I will say that if you are gonna work on your car... getting the DAS system makes life a LOT easier and more enjoyable.
I did my research when I bought mine... went with Peter (BenzNinja). His service is by far the best I have had in almost 30 years in business.
I only work on my cars for fun.... not in the automotive business.
This isn't a sales solicitation by any means.... but, tracking down one of the MANY switches that make the top work can be a large task if you are doing it with a multi meter. I know!!!! Been there... done that.

Mark

cougar694u

The car sat at benz-certified body shop for around 7-8 months after my neighbor backed into it. When I got it back, it was throwing all kinds of errors/codes due to the batteries going dead, so I bought the iCarsoft and it said it couldn't communicate with the driver door module, but everything worked at the time. I ended up parking it in storage when COVID hit, only recently wanting to tackle the roof. I definitely want to look into the DAS system and had already started looking at the BenzNinja stuff.

MikeJ65

Does your driver window function properly - lower slightly when you open the door and then close after you close the door? If not, it is highly unlikely that the roof will work. All four windows need to be functional and their control modules communicating on the CAN Bus for the roof to work. If it happens to be just a window switch issue, that shouldn't affect the roof, but (other than the lever breaking off) the window switches are pretty reliable, so I would suspect that you have module or other issues issues on that door.

ml320x5

Deleted (Sorry for the double post)

ml320x5

If you reread post #6, Did mention windows move. Beside if the trunk lid traveled to the end of the stroke, windows sensing is already done which is part of the sequence otherwise trunk won't lift at all. You can always lower all windows manually prior to the top operation.

Now assuming S119 switch done it's job (Make sure trunk lid is at the end of travel), next would be the flaps switches. Lift flaps up and down slightly and you should be able to hear click sound from those switches, If not, you have a problem. One more thing, make sure the battery at back is in full working condition. Next would be the flaps track mechanism. I've seen people didn't really understand it and turned those jam and lock nuts to it's extreme and binding the whole movements.

cougar694u

Driver's window was already down, and the left rear window moves as it should.

I believe S119 may be the issue because flaps don't flap, lol. I should have time to tinker with it tomorrow and hopefully make some headway.

ml320x5

One more thing that I can think of. Since you rework the front lock cylinder, there may be a chance when you bolted it back on, those bolts may not be the exact locations. I normally go by the old marking on the matting surface. Misaligned will cause binding. Manually turn the unlock with a hex key to make sure the top can be lift by hand.

cougar694u

The top worked after I replaced the front lock. That was the first one to fail. Then the trunk lift. The top functioned as intended after replacing both of those. The top started going really slow after those, so I believe some cylinders had internal bypass, and I noticed the trunk/tubular lock cylinders started seeping a little. That's when I decided to do all remaining cylinders.

ml320x5

So if the top worked after you replaced the trunk lift cyclinder, I would guess S119 is good.
Falps is what I would concentrate at this point.

cougar694u

Except I removed it during this last venture forgetting that I had replaced it already and removed both the switch & the cylinder.

cougar694u

Made some progress today. As it turns out the drivers door module had partially come unplugged. While at the body shop, I had the MB tech replace the window switch (typical broken pull tab), and looks like they didn't plug everything back in properly. Was odd that the window switch worked, but I guess opening & closing the door eventually loosened it up enough to completely disconnect it. Once I remembered they replaced the switch, that seemed obvious.

After I fixed that, the trop worked fine, trunk opened quickly, flaps out, closed & locked the trunk, windows rolled up (assuming completed Stage 5 of opening). Then I tried to close the roof, nothing, "visit workshop" appeared.

I'm getting DTC B1197-000 for S69/1 and S69/11, "Switching status not plausible".

I checked S69/11 because the top is open and it's right there. It's functional because I actually removed the switch, which released pressure on it, signaling that the roof is up and it threw about 6 different DTCs. Reinstalled the switch, cleared the codes, and B1197-000 came back. Neither the roof nor the rollbar work, and the luggage button doesn't do anything, either.

The Vario Roof Diagnostic Aid doc says the value for S69/1 is 373 and should be recognized or not recognized. I can't find that in my iCarsoft MB II, unfortunately, nor 372 for S69/11.

According to that doc, either S69/1 is "shorted"/"sticking" - OR - S69/11 is "Open", since the top is fully open, but does nothing.

Here are the values that iCarsoft had for the RVC module (ignoring ignition & voltages, and other obvious ones):
312 - vehicle speed below shutoff threshold - YES
313 - solenoid valve and pump outputs ok - YES
314 - position and function of limit switch are ok - YES
315 - Actuation of rollover bar NOT ACTIVE - YES
316 - Actuation using diagnosis NOT ACTIVE - YES
532 - Switch Vario roof not operated - YES
533 - limit switch ok - NO <---- assuming this is for S69/1 and/or S69/11
534 - Actuation of rollover bar NOT ACTIVE - YES
535 Actuation using diagnosis NOT ACTIVE - YES
490 - luggage compartment lid and rotary tumbler opened - RECOGNIZED
491 - Vario roof open in end position - NOT RECOGNIZED <---- this bugs me, but assuming due to S69/1?
492 - Switch Vario roof operated - NOT RECOGNIZED
494 - Activation of rollover bar - NOT ACTIVE
495 - Actuation using diagnosis NOT ACTIVE - YES
497 - Load assist switch - NOT OPERATED

ml320x5

So you are saying..you completed the open cycle then when you want to close it, nothing happen at all?!

I can think of 1 thing. Hope I guess it wrong. Check the guide pin housing at the top RHS of your windscreen. You know when the top closed, on either side, there is a black, hard plastic, guide pin at the leading edge of your top which will trigger a micro switch within the housing. If the pin was broken and part of it was sitting inside that housing, your system still thinks your top is at stowed position.

MikeJ65

I figured that it was door module related. 533 refers to the roll bar and switch S83/10 (roll bar up/down limit), but if you have an issue with it there should be related codes, 491 is roof open AND trunk lid open for the load assist feature. If you checked with the trunk closed, that would explain that one (or trunk was open but not open fully enough to make the switch, typically because of bad trunk struts). Given the B1197-000 code, roof thinks that it is both up and down, so there is probably some issue with the S69/1 switch or wiring as mentioned above.

cougar694u

Is S69/1 located inside the windshield frame at the top right?

ml320x5

Yes and that is the micro switch, S69/1 that I was talking about.
Once you found it, compare Left & Right side. Put a ballpoint pen or something similar into the opening. It should go right thru...if you catch my meaning.

cougar694u

This was exactly it. Any ideas where I can purchase this?



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MikeJ65

You have to buy the whole latch assembly 230 790 09 71, about $360 from the discounters, a bit less on ebay.

ml320x5

I can tell you what I did. It's up to you what to do.

The whole Assy. was riveted together so it's a lot of work to take it apart and replace the guide pin (if you can find the pin). You can find a whole Assembly on EBay....

I went the lazy route. Luckily enough, that one car I worked on, has only the tip broken off (about inch or 2). I took a hard plastic body (material that can take some load) from a ballpoint pen with the right size, cut it to the right length, clean all surfaces, slip it into the still attached base with JB weld. Make sure the alignment, no binding. Put a lot of grease to the fabricated pin and the housing where the switch is. As long as there is grease and good alignment, it should slide right in. The pin has to be long enough to trigger the switch though!