SL/R230: Vario Roof hydraulics replacement
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Vario Roof hydraulics replacement
Ive had several components replaced on my vario roof hydraulic system and am thinking about just replacing everything with a kit from tophydrolics. looks like i can get everything for about $1500 which is about what im paying per part to be replaced by my mechanic i am/was using... Does anyone have any experience with these referb parts and recommend using them? thanks
#2
Member
I sent every cylinder to top hydraulics and got replacements for my car. I didn't update the pump, just all cylinders. Took some work, but the roof now works perfectly with no leaks. I had one minor issue with the roll bar cylinder when I got the replacement, which top hydraulics quickly fixed. Customer service was excellent and I'd highly recommend them.
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JamesMitchell (06-20-2021)
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
I had tophydraulics rebuild my pump some years back. TOTAL PROS ! I would not hesitate to do business with them again.
As to whether or not it makes sense to replace everything at one time ... I suppose that has to do with how much that piece of mind (of knowing everything is good as new) is worth to you. If you have had more then a few actual failures in the vario roof system, then perhaps the rest of the hydraulic parts are on borrowed time. ...
As to whether or not it makes sense to replace everything at one time ... I suppose that has to do with how much that piece of mind (of knowing everything is good as new) is worth to you. If you have had more then a few actual failures in the vario roof system, then perhaps the rest of the hydraulic parts are on borrowed time. ...
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JamesMitchell (06-20-2021)
#4
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The one that causes the most problems and can do the most damage is the front latch and that would be the first one to proactively replace, especially if you have the fancy headliner. The trunk lift and frame latches are also fairly high failure rates and are easy to replace. Doing those four would be in the $500 range and take care of probably 75% of the common problems. The pump, main roof, and load assist cylinders are all pretty reliable.
Also, the majority of roof issues are not pump and cylinder related. You can have all new hydraulics and still have roof issues. I'm not saying not to do it, but I don't think that it is necessary or something that will greatly decrease roof problems.
That said, everything that I have heard about Top Hydraulics has been positive and I think that their prices are reasonable for the work required to rebuild cylinders that were not designed to be rebuilt.
Also, the majority of roof issues are not pump and cylinder related. You can have all new hydraulics and still have roof issues. I'm not saying not to do it, but I don't think that it is necessary or something that will greatly decrease roof problems.
That said, everything that I have heard about Top Hydraulics has been positive and I think that their prices are reasonable for the work required to rebuild cylinders that were not designed to be rebuilt.
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#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
The one that causes the most problems and can do the most damage is the front latch and that would be the first one to proactively replace, especially if you have the fancy headliner. The trunk lift and frame latches are also fairly high failure rates and are easy to replace. Doing those four would be in the $500 range and take care of probably 75% of the common problems. The pump, main roof, and load assist cylinders are all pretty reliable.
Also, the majority of roof issues are not pump and cylinder related. You can have all new hydraulics and still have roof issues. I'm not saying not to do it, but I don't think that it is necessary or something that will greatly decrease roof problems.
That said, everything that I have heard about Top Hydraulics has been positive and I think that their prices are reasonable for the work required to rebuild cylinders that were not designed to be rebuilt.
Also, the majority of roof issues are not pump and cylinder related. You can have all new hydraulics and still have roof issues. I'm not saying not to do it, but I don't think that it is necessary or something that will greatly decrease roof problems.
That said, everything that I have heard about Top Hydraulics has been positive and I think that their prices are reasonable for the work required to rebuild cylinders that were not designed to be rebuilt.
thanks
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
The one that causes the most problems and can do the most damage is the front latch and that would be the first one to proactively replace, especially if you have the fancy headliner. The trunk lift and frame latches are also fairly high failure rates and are easy to replace. Doing those four would be in the $500 range and take care of probably 75% of the common problems. The pump, main roof, and load assist cylinders are all pretty reliable.
Also, the majority of roof issues are not pump and cylinder related. You can have all new hydraulics and still have roof issues. I'm not saying not to do it, but I don't think that it is necessary or something that will greatly decrease roof problems.
That said, everything that I have heard about Top Hydraulics has been positive and I think that their prices are reasonable for the work required to rebuild cylinders that were not designed to be rebuilt.
Also, the majority of roof issues are not pump and cylinder related. You can have all new hydraulics and still have roof issues. I'm not saying not to do it, but I don't think that it is necessary or something that will greatly decrease roof problems.
That said, everything that I have heard about Top Hydraulics has been positive and I think that their prices are reasonable for the work required to rebuild cylinders that were not designed to be rebuilt.
I agree about the "the non-pump/cylinder related parts" being an issue as well. One that comes to mind is the https://www.mbdirectparts.com/oem-pa...ate-2307500111 . This kit includes 2 updated design parts (and the mounting screws) and is less than $50. If left in place, the original part(s) eventually fail when it is least convenient.
Cheers,
Chris
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JamesMitchell (06-20-2021)
#7
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes, two of the more common problems are the flap rack and pinion drives as Chris pointed out and PSE pump problems. The PSE only has one function related to the roof - reading the trunk divider switch, but if it goes bad and blows a fuse the trunk divider will show as open and the roof won't open.
You can also break off the alignment pin on the right leading edge of the roof which actuates the roof closed switch. It can stick in the switch giving you a roof closed signal when it is open, or it can fall off and you will not get a roof closed signal and the roof will not latch.
Another common problem is a malfunction with any window. The roof module asks the door modules to lower the front windows to the short stroke position and report back when they are in position. The RVC itself lowers the rear windows and checks positions. All four window positions must be verified for the roof to work. The trunk (tubular frame) open cylinder has a limit switch on a long plastic rod that is prone to failure.
CAN B communication is essential for roof operation. The RVC must communicate with the Lower Control Panel (roof switch), Upper Control Panel (roof closed switch), both door modules (window positions), PSE (trunk divider), Rear SAM (trunk lock) and it also gets a vehicle speed signal. I'm not sure where this comes from, but it probably originates from the wheel speed sensors read by the SBC on CAN C and gateways through the EIS. So, that would be around 9 modules that all need to be working and communicating for the roof to work.
There are another dozen or so prox switches that must all work, have good wiring to the RVC, and have good grounds. In addition, the roll bar must be functional or at least verified as down. There are a total of 7 electric motors that need to be working - the four window motors, PSE motor (at least not locked and blowing fuses), hydraulic pump motor, and the flaps motor.
What is your roof doing? Does it start to open, are you getting any messages on the dash?
You can also break off the alignment pin on the right leading edge of the roof which actuates the roof closed switch. It can stick in the switch giving you a roof closed signal when it is open, or it can fall off and you will not get a roof closed signal and the roof will not latch.
Another common problem is a malfunction with any window. The roof module asks the door modules to lower the front windows to the short stroke position and report back when they are in position. The RVC itself lowers the rear windows and checks positions. All four window positions must be verified for the roof to work. The trunk (tubular frame) open cylinder has a limit switch on a long plastic rod that is prone to failure.
CAN B communication is essential for roof operation. The RVC must communicate with the Lower Control Panel (roof switch), Upper Control Panel (roof closed switch), both door modules (window positions), PSE (trunk divider), Rear SAM (trunk lock) and it also gets a vehicle speed signal. I'm not sure where this comes from, but it probably originates from the wheel speed sensors read by the SBC on CAN C and gateways through the EIS. So, that would be around 9 modules that all need to be working and communicating for the roof to work.
There are another dozen or so prox switches that must all work, have good wiring to the RVC, and have good grounds. In addition, the roll bar must be functional or at least verified as down. There are a total of 7 electric motors that need to be working - the four window motors, PSE motor (at least not locked and blowing fuses), hydraulic pump motor, and the flaps motor.
What is your roof doing? Does it start to open, are you getting any messages on the dash?
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#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Yes, two of the more common problems are the flap rack and pinion drives as Chris pointed out and PSE pump problems. The PSE only has one function related to the roof - reading the trunk divider switch, but if it goes bad and blows a fuse the trunk divider will show as open and the roof won't open.
You can also break off the alignment pin on the right leading edge of the roof which actuates the roof closed switch. It can stick in the switch giving you a roof closed signal when it is open, or it can fall off and you will not get a roof closed signal and the roof will not latch.
Another common problem is a malfunction with any window. The roof module asks the door modules to lower the front windows to the short stroke position and report back when they are in position. The RVC itself lowers the rear windows and checks positions. All four window positions must be verified for the roof to work. The trunk (tubular frame) open cylinder has a limit switch on a long plastic rod that is prone to failure.
CAN B communication is essential for roof operation. The RVC must communicate with the Lower Control Panel (roof switch), Upper Control Panel (roof closed switch), both door modules (window positions), PSE (trunk divider), Rear SAM (trunk lock) and it also gets a vehicle speed signal. I'm not sure where this comes from, but it probably originates from the wheel speed sensors read by the SBC on CAN C and gateways through the EIS. So, that would be around 9 modules that all need to be working and communicating for the roof to work.
There are another dozen or so prox switches that must all work, have good wiring to the RVC, and have good grounds. In addition, the roll bar must be functional or at least verified as down. There are a total of 7 electric motors that need to be working - the four window motors, PSE motor (at least not locked and blowing fuses), hydraulic pump motor, and the flaps motor.
What is your roof doing? Does it start to open, are you getting any messages on the dash?
You can also break off the alignment pin on the right leading edge of the roof which actuates the roof closed switch. It can stick in the switch giving you a roof closed signal when it is open, or it can fall off and you will not get a roof closed signal and the roof will not latch.
Another common problem is a malfunction with any window. The roof module asks the door modules to lower the front windows to the short stroke position and report back when they are in position. The RVC itself lowers the rear windows and checks positions. All four window positions must be verified for the roof to work. The trunk (tubular frame) open cylinder has a limit switch on a long plastic rod that is prone to failure.
CAN B communication is essential for roof operation. The RVC must communicate with the Lower Control Panel (roof switch), Upper Control Panel (roof closed switch), both door modules (window positions), PSE (trunk divider), Rear SAM (trunk lock) and it also gets a vehicle speed signal. I'm not sure where this comes from, but it probably originates from the wheel speed sensors read by the SBC on CAN C and gateways through the EIS. So, that would be around 9 modules that all need to be working and communicating for the roof to work.
There are another dozen or so prox switches that must all work, have good wiring to the RVC, and have good grounds. In addition, the roll bar must be functional or at least verified as down. There are a total of 7 electric motors that need to be working - the four window motors, PSE motor (at least not locked and blowing fuses), hydraulic pump motor, and the flaps motor.
What is your roof doing? Does it start to open, are you getting any messages on the dash?
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes, two of the more common problems are the flap rack and pinion drives as Chris pointed out and PSE pump problems. The PSE only has one function related to the roof - reading the trunk divider switch, but if it goes bad and blows a fuse the trunk divider will show as open and the roof won't open.
You can also break off the alignment pin on the right leading edge of the roof which actuates the roof closed switch. It can stick in the switch giving you a roof closed signal when it is open, or it can fall off and you will not get a roof closed signal and the roof will not latch.
Another common problem is a malfunction with any window. The roof module asks the door modules to lower the front windows to the short stroke position and report back when they are in position. The RVC itself lowers the rear windows and checks positions. All four window positions must be verified for the roof to work. The trunk (tubular frame) open cylinder has a limit switch on a long plastic rod that is prone to failure.
CAN B communication is essential for roof operation. The RVC must communicate with the Lower Control Panel (roof switch), Upper Control Panel (roof closed switch), both door modules (window positions), PSE (trunk divider), Rear SAM (trunk lock) and it also gets a vehicle speed signal. I'm not sure where this comes from, but it probably originates from the wheel speed sensors read by the SBC on CAN C and gateways through the EIS. So, that would be around 9 modules that all need to be working and communicating for the roof to work.
There are another dozen or so prox switches that must all work, have good wiring to the RVC, and have good grounds. In addition, the roll bar must be functional or at least verified as down. There are a total of 7 electric motors that need to be working - the four window motors, PSE motor (at least not locked and blowing fuses), hydraulic pump motor, and the flaps motor.
What is your roof doing? Does it start to open, are you getting any messages on the dash?
You can also break off the alignment pin on the right leading edge of the roof which actuates the roof closed switch. It can stick in the switch giving you a roof closed signal when it is open, or it can fall off and you will not get a roof closed signal and the roof will not latch.
Another common problem is a malfunction with any window. The roof module asks the door modules to lower the front windows to the short stroke position and report back when they are in position. The RVC itself lowers the rear windows and checks positions. All four window positions must be verified for the roof to work. The trunk (tubular frame) open cylinder has a limit switch on a long plastic rod that is prone to failure.
CAN B communication is essential for roof operation. The RVC must communicate with the Lower Control Panel (roof switch), Upper Control Panel (roof closed switch), both door modules (window positions), PSE (trunk divider), Rear SAM (trunk lock) and it also gets a vehicle speed signal. I'm not sure where this comes from, but it probably originates from the wheel speed sensors read by the SBC on CAN C and gateways through the EIS. So, that would be around 9 modules that all need to be working and communicating for the roof to work.
There are another dozen or so prox switches that must all work, have good wiring to the RVC, and have good grounds. In addition, the roll bar must be functional or at least verified as down. There are a total of 7 electric motors that need to be working - the four window motors, PSE motor (at least not locked and blowing fuses), hydraulic pump motor, and the flaps motor.
What is your roof doing? Does it start to open, are you getting any messages on the dash?
Only thing that I can think to add (that is somewhat common failure item) is the gas strut for the tubular frame (buried in the rear trunk wall). When this starts to go, the trunk may move in a jerky fashion and can clunk when it reaches the fully open position during the top up/down process.
Cheers,
Chris
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
warnerca,
The trunk just coming up slightly is often low fluid or another reason for lack of hydraulic pressure. It is possible that you had a leaking cylinder that need to be replaced and then a roll bar cylinder with an internal leak, but I get a bit worried when it starts sounding like someone is just throwing parts at it.
The trunk just coming up slightly is often low fluid or another reason for lack of hydraulic pressure. It is possible that you had a leaking cylinder that need to be replaced and then a roll bar cylinder with an internal leak, but I get a bit worried when it starts sounding like someone is just throwing parts at it.
#11
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2005 R 230 SL350 (M112 3.7). Sold the 1966 W113 230SL recently
“Im taking it to the dealer this week and going to attempt to get the real story. thx”
The dealer will strip you financially and they’ll probably refuse to give you guaranteed functionality. Get their quote, if you must, easen your heartbeat, then dive into the alternatives at hand.
The dealer will strip you financially and they’ll probably refuse to give you guaranteed functionality. Get their quote, if you must, easen your heartbeat, then dive into the alternatives at hand.
#12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
“Im taking it to the dealer this week and going to attempt to get the real story. thx”
The dealer will strip you financially and they’ll probably refuse to give you guaranteed functionality. Get their quote, if you must, easen your heartbeat, then dive into the alternatives at hand.
The dealer will strip you financially and they’ll probably refuse to give you guaranteed functionality. Get their quote, if you must, easen your heartbeat, then dive into the alternatives at hand.
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Frederick NL (06-21-2021)
#13
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Great info in this thread, especially by MikeJ65. Thanks you for sharing this great info. This should be a sticky. Thanks again!
#14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Just to close the loop on my original post, I did find a competent mechanic and he fixed the roof issues for less than $1k. I got lucky because apparently these SL 'whisperers' are not easy to find. As i said in a previous post, this is who the Mercedes dealer told me to call.
So my lesson learned is since im not a mechanic, i probably should have sought out a competent one prior to buying the car. It would have saved me a ton of money and stress.
So my lesson learned is since im not a mechanic, i probably should have sought out a competent one prior to buying the car. It would have saved me a ton of money and stress.
#16
Junior Member
Thread Starter
He also gave me a run down on other things that would break and he said the ABC issues were overblown. Said it was usually just an 'actuator', not exactly sure thats the right word, but regardless he said its usually a couple hundered dollar fix. He also said the breaks are electronically controlled, and they can have have issues. Again, said it wasnt a ton of money to fix, just a nusense when it happens.
#17
MBWorld Fanatic!
He was probably talking about the ABC accumulators, which have a high failure rate and will cause brief red dash warnings when you hit a bump or dip. Most of the parts for ABC repairs are relatively cheap, but labor can get expensive on a couple of the hoses.
#18
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Ah yes, sorry, it was accumulators. And that was basically how he discribed it, dash warning, rougher than usual ride.