SL/R230: DB9 over SL600 – I don't think so.
10-14-2004, 08:31 AM
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DB9 over SL600 – I don't think so.
I have (or had) on order for a DB9. When I ordered the car I hadn't seen or driven one but it sure looked good. My order was in production and before it was completed I had to see and drive this car before paying for it. Well, in fine, courteous Aston Martin style they arranged for me to see and drive a DB9 last week.
I don't get it. First of all, their claim that this car is 30% larger than the DB7 from what I can tell is just not true. They claim 4 more inches in the shoulders and that too, I don't see. I am 6'2" and I could not fit into the car without my head hitting the top. The new design of the seats, while pretty, actually make the seat smaller because of the sides. The new power seats are a joke and don't work very well. They say that the front and back both go up and down. They forgot to tell you when you lower the back of the seat for headroom, the front of the seat goes up so your legs hit the steering wheel. It is one of worst power seat configurations I have seen. The SL600 has way more room in every area and dimension and their seat design and power modes are far superior to the DB9.
Also, all the insturmentation looks and is so small. The controls in the center console seem to be designed for the Munchkins from the Wizard of Oz. Try reading the letters and numbers on the controls. Not going to happen so you better have a good memory. The GPS unit, well, its a joke and not worth even mentioning.
Pretty car, yes. Technically sound, yes. Great sounding engine, absolutley. BUT comparing both cars overall, I cancelled my DB9 order and went back to Mercedes and ordered a new SL600.
The SL600 drive is more powerful. The interior on the SL600 is as nice if not nicer than the DB9. It is certainly more practical and everything flows together. It has all the bells and whistles which the DB9 is sadly missing. I mean, for that kind of money, the DB9 has no bells and whistles. Hey, they said it was a GT so don't tell me it shouldn't have at least an outside air temperature gauge. I know the DB7 had one but I guess they ran out of space or money in the DB9.
Then, there is the center console storage area that I was told about. Don't count on it. The center armrest cover does not open so you better find a place to store your garage door openers because there are no automatic openers in the DB9 either.
This was suppose to be a touring car and I am afraid I don't see it that way. If, in the alternative they are wrong and it really is a performance car, then it falls short of its high performance competition.
The SL600 is much faster, much smoother and equally as responsive. It is also a hard top convertable so you get a Coupe and Volante all in one. I just don't get what all the fuss is about the DB9.
If I was designing a car and then building a factory to manufacture it, I would have done things alot differently. But then again, I don't make cars for a living.
Like I said, DB9 over the SL600, NO CHANCE for me!
I don't get it. First of all, their claim that this car is 30% larger than the DB7 from what I can tell is just not true. They claim 4 more inches in the shoulders and that too, I don't see. I am 6'2" and I could not fit into the car without my head hitting the top. The new design of the seats, while pretty, actually make the seat smaller because of the sides. The new power seats are a joke and don't work very well. They say that the front and back both go up and down. They forgot to tell you when you lower the back of the seat for headroom, the front of the seat goes up so your legs hit the steering wheel. It is one of worst power seat configurations I have seen. The SL600 has way more room in every area and dimension and their seat design and power modes are far superior to the DB9.
Also, all the insturmentation looks and is so small. The controls in the center console seem to be designed for the Munchkins from the Wizard of Oz. Try reading the letters and numbers on the controls. Not going to happen so you better have a good memory. The GPS unit, well, its a joke and not worth even mentioning.
Pretty car, yes. Technically sound, yes. Great sounding engine, absolutley. BUT comparing both cars overall, I cancelled my DB9 order and went back to Mercedes and ordered a new SL600.
The SL600 drive is more powerful. The interior on the SL600 is as nice if not nicer than the DB9. It is certainly more practical and everything flows together. It has all the bells and whistles which the DB9 is sadly missing. I mean, for that kind of money, the DB9 has no bells and whistles. Hey, they said it was a GT so don't tell me it shouldn't have at least an outside air temperature gauge. I know the DB7 had one but I guess they ran out of space or money in the DB9.
Then, there is the center console storage area that I was told about. Don't count on it. The center armrest cover does not open so you better find a place to store your garage door openers because there are no automatic openers in the DB9 either.
This was suppose to be a touring car and I am afraid I don't see it that way. If, in the alternative they are wrong and it really is a performance car, then it falls short of its high performance competition.
The SL600 is much faster, much smoother and equally as responsive. It is also a hard top convertable so you get a Coupe and Volante all in one. I just don't get what all the fuss is about the DB9.
If I was designing a car and then building a factory to manufacture it, I would have done things alot differently. But then again, I don't make cars for a living.
Like I said, DB9 over the SL600, NO CHANCE for me!
10-14-2004, 10:29 AM
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Interesting to see BlueSL's opinions after driving the car. Probably looks like it might have to be an F430 instead of the DB7. Oh life can be hard sometimes 
10-14-2004, 03:05 PM
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I'm test driving at the beginning of November but already your comments strike a chord. I agree with you that the car is successful in the headline items - how it looks, how it sounds. That said, I think the packaging is flawed and it's cabin space which suffers. The inside is claustrophobic, especially in a dark colour where the SL is light and airy.
The DB9 does have the exclusivity which the SL will never give you - in the US, it sounds like there are enclaves in Florida, California and New York where every other car is an SL and here in the UK, the SL600 is largely indistinguishable from a "cooking" SL350. Mercedes are churning out the SL at 750 a week; Aston are likely to make no more than 2000 DB9s a year. On the road, the Aston is immediately recognisable, the SL looks so much like any other Mercedes. Exclusivity may or may not be important to you.
But in my book, it's how it drives which counts and against a background of my SL55 redeeeming itself with its new brake modification (roof still creaks though), the DB9 is going to have to be head-over-shoulders, no contest, better to drive than the SL55 for me to continue with my order. Otherwise, the DB9 and SL55 are too close in what they are trying to achieve. And it's difficult to contemplate selling my SL55 now that I've installed my ace illuminated door sills!!
I can't help wondering whether the DB9 has received so much praise not because it is an outstanding car in absolute terms but because it marks a big step forwards from the DB7 which cynics might see as a prettied-up Jaguar XK8. Aston is owned by Ford and they've recently been doing some hard talking here about their other UK operations - Jaguar and Land Rover - and none have a particularly good story to tell. Aston's challenge now is to turn rave reviews into happy customers with product that convinces beyond the initial euphoria.
That's why, for just $20k more, an F430 seems, from where I am sitting, rather more appealing. Still, I'll go into the test drive with an open mind and report back here.
The DB9 does have the exclusivity which the SL will never give you - in the US, it sounds like there are enclaves in Florida, California and New York where every other car is an SL and here in the UK, the SL600 is largely indistinguishable from a "cooking" SL350. Mercedes are churning out the SL at 750 a week; Aston are likely to make no more than 2000 DB9s a year. On the road, the Aston is immediately recognisable, the SL looks so much like any other Mercedes. Exclusivity may or may not be important to you.
But in my book, it's how it drives which counts and against a background of my SL55 redeeeming itself with its new brake modification (roof still creaks though), the DB9 is going to have to be head-over-shoulders, no contest, better to drive than the SL55 for me to continue with my order. Otherwise, the DB9 and SL55 are too close in what they are trying to achieve. And it's difficult to contemplate selling my SL55 now that I've installed my ace illuminated door sills!!
I can't help wondering whether the DB9 has received so much praise not because it is an outstanding car in absolute terms but because it marks a big step forwards from the DB7 which cynics might see as a prettied-up Jaguar XK8. Aston is owned by Ford and they've recently been doing some hard talking here about their other UK operations - Jaguar and Land Rover - and none have a particularly good story to tell. Aston's challenge now is to turn rave reviews into happy customers with product that convinces beyond the initial euphoria.
That's why, for just $20k more, an F430 seems, from where I am sitting, rather more appealing. Still, I'll go into the test drive with an open mind and report back here.
10-14-2004, 05:32 PM
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sl 500
thanks blueSL for your comments. no doubt DB9 will be exclusive but these guys do not make alot of cars which translate to limited experience to customers wants. MB is making lots of SL and I think your choice of SL will be hard act to follow. Why not SL 65....are your experience so burnt with your SL55 that AMG products are no longer appealing ?
With regards to Ferrari new F430...looks absolutely great , but ask any Ferrari owner and they all say it is not a daily drivers car, more like Hobby car. Even though the new F430 is meant to be more driveable as a daily car I still have my doubts !
well, i go back to my cubby hole now and continue reading all your comments....good hunting !
monty
With regards to Ferrari new F430...looks absolutely great , but ask any Ferrari owner and they all say it is not a daily drivers car, more like Hobby car. Even though the new F430 is meant to be more driveable as a daily car I still have my doubts !
well, i go back to my cubby hole now and continue reading all your comments....good hunting !
monty
10-14-2004, 06:05 PM
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Bentley Arnage Red Label
Are you guys considering the Volante as well as the DB9? That would be a better comparison to the SL. I am also looking at these same cars as I wait for my Cont.GT convertible on order. I love the SL55/65 but as mentioned they do not differ enough(looks wise) than the 20 SL500's I see every day. As far as the Ferrari, I have one and love the looks but is no where near what I would call a daily driver. The 430 should be much better but unless you have been on a list for a year, you won't have a shot at one(at msrp) for another two. The Gallardo to me is a better car anyway and if the spider was out I would be all over it.( all wheel drive,v10, navigation etc) makes a decent semi daily for me. I am still anxious to see the Volante but it won't be here until March. If Benz changed up the body work on the AMG cars to make them look much different from the SL500, that would make it an easy choice for me.
10-14-2004, 06:11 PM
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Mercedes C400, BMW X3
Glad to read this stuff
Glad this thread has been started and the people posting here seem sophisticated and possessing of similar biases as my own.
I love the look and sound of the DB9 and visited the Gaydon factory in May for a brief experience with the DB9. I have now owned four SL's including the SL55. My current GT is a 2004 CL600 and I am picking up a CL65 in Germany in less than 2 weeks.
Frankly I am a little bored with Benz. The driving experience is mostly sedan like (perhaps a funny way of putting it since I have owned 4 E55's and the handling is much worse than either the SL or CL) and the interiors are staid. I moved away from the SL because I thought too many interior pieces were plasticky, I hated the sensotronic brakes and I could not get comfortable in the seats. I do like the ride and handling and the fact that everything works most of the time. The Top is a marvel when it isn't squeaking. The CL65 is another car I don't expect to keep mostly because the price is a little ridiculous- I could add a RennTech kit to my CL600 and achieve the same thing for $40,000 less.
I actually own a 2005 Bentley Continental GT as of Tuesday- I ordered it long ago and after testing driving it, decided it was way too heavy to be enjoyable and have asked the dealer to sell it for me. It is a very nicely finished interior but reminds me so much of my late VW Phaeton that ultimately I cannot be happy with it.
The Aston is more exotic for us SL/CL types. The noises from the V12 are music, and the design is a modern classic. Judging from the various articles we have all read from the car books, the drive is severely compromised by its design confusion over whether it wants to be a GT or sports car. I am eagerly awaiting BlueSL's observations after his hopefully lengthy test drive.
You know, maybe we have become too jaded by our expensive toys and should go back to Z4's and Boxsters for a while so that we would kill to own any of the cars being discussed here.
I love the look and sound of the DB9 and visited the Gaydon factory in May for a brief experience with the DB9. I have now owned four SL's including the SL55. My current GT is a 2004 CL600 and I am picking up a CL65 in Germany in less than 2 weeks.
Frankly I am a little bored with Benz. The driving experience is mostly sedan like (perhaps a funny way of putting it since I have owned 4 E55's and the handling is much worse than either the SL or CL) and the interiors are staid. I moved away from the SL because I thought too many interior pieces were plasticky, I hated the sensotronic brakes and I could not get comfortable in the seats. I do like the ride and handling and the fact that everything works most of the time. The Top is a marvel when it isn't squeaking. The CL65 is another car I don't expect to keep mostly because the price is a little ridiculous- I could add a RennTech kit to my CL600 and achieve the same thing for $40,000 less.
I actually own a 2005 Bentley Continental GT as of Tuesday- I ordered it long ago and after testing driving it, decided it was way too heavy to be enjoyable and have asked the dealer to sell it for me. It is a very nicely finished interior but reminds me so much of my late VW Phaeton that ultimately I cannot be happy with it.
The Aston is more exotic for us SL/CL types. The noises from the V12 are music, and the design is a modern classic. Judging from the various articles we have all read from the car books, the drive is severely compromised by its design confusion over whether it wants to be a GT or sports car. I am eagerly awaiting BlueSL's observations after his hopefully lengthy test drive.
You know, maybe we have become too jaded by our expensive toys and should go back to Z4's and Boxsters for a while so that we would kill to own any of the cars being discussed here.
10-14-2004, 06:21 PM
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I don't think the number of cars you make limits your ability to judge what's needed. If that logic held true, GM would make the world's finest cars and Ferrari would miss their mark. It does though limit your development budget and force compromise. Mercedes' great advantage is the sharing of parts across a wide range of cars which keeps costs down and makes the SL actually rather good value for money. If you are a small volume producer your budget has to focus on essentials and you may need to fall back to raiding your owner's parts bin for what you believe to be less important. It's a tough call where you draw the line.
In many areas, Aston has got it right and provides a significant opportunity to tailor the product. People over on the SL55 forum agonise whether to have dark grey, light grey or red interior. The Aston has 24 shades of leather as standard and they can do that because the sewing machines used to make the interior trim are right next door to the line - I've seen them - compared to using bought-in components made half-way across Germany. There's also a similar number of paint colours available, and, in my judgment, the quality of paint finish is vastly superior to the SL which is painted alongside C Class sedans in Bremen. If you're painting 8 cars a day, you can take your time to get it right. If you're painting 1500, you cant. The wood in the Aston looks like real wood instead of plastic as it does in the Mercedes. And so it goes on...
Many will go for the Aston because of the more bespoke buying opportunity instead of the "me-too" Mercedes buying experience. Others will go with the SL because of the "bangs-per-buck" it provides. Neither is wrong, it's down to personal preference. But when you've sampled the gizmos, it's easy to lose sight of what's important. Many of the issues are raised here about the car - quality of the sound system, satellite radio, seat adjustment and so on - are not even on my radar. What I crave is driver involvement - a driving experience where I am in touch with what the car is doing and not merely piloting it. The SL55, for all its competence, does not give me that and nor would an SL65. My hope is that I will find the Aston delivers but there have been mixed reports and I have to make up my own mind. The fallback is to the F430. Of course it's not a daily driver, no mid-engined Ferrari will ever be but it looks to me to be a truly exciting car to have sitting alongside my SL55. I doubt it has illuminated door-sills though...
In many areas, Aston has got it right and provides a significant opportunity to tailor the product. People over on the SL55 forum agonise whether to have dark grey, light grey or red interior. The Aston has 24 shades of leather as standard and they can do that because the sewing machines used to make the interior trim are right next door to the line - I've seen them - compared to using bought-in components made half-way across Germany. There's also a similar number of paint colours available, and, in my judgment, the quality of paint finish is vastly superior to the SL which is painted alongside C Class sedans in Bremen. If you're painting 8 cars a day, you can take your time to get it right. If you're painting 1500, you cant. The wood in the Aston looks like real wood instead of plastic as it does in the Mercedes. And so it goes on...
Many will go for the Aston because of the more bespoke buying opportunity instead of the "me-too" Mercedes buying experience. Others will go with the SL because of the "bangs-per-buck" it provides. Neither is wrong, it's down to personal preference. But when you've sampled the gizmos, it's easy to lose sight of what's important. Many of the issues are raised here about the car - quality of the sound system, satellite radio, seat adjustment and so on - are not even on my radar. What I crave is driver involvement - a driving experience where I am in touch with what the car is doing and not merely piloting it. The SL55, for all its competence, does not give me that and nor would an SL65. My hope is that I will find the Aston delivers but there have been mixed reports and I have to make up my own mind. The fallback is to the F430. Of course it's not a daily driver, no mid-engined Ferrari will ever be but it looks to me to be a truly exciting car to have sitting alongside my SL55. I doubt it has illuminated door-sills though...
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10-14-2004, 11:25 PM
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none of this seems relevant to me after seeing one in person; sorry, but the look of the car overwhels all these things IMHO (of course, I've never actually driven it, but...)
