Bilbo7

HI all

Well I know tyres have been chatted over many times if not endlessly but after watching an interesting video on the fact MO tyres are actually VERY different in construction to none MO whatever the make after that say Mercedes or BMW in fact the video was on BMW M3.
It’s here see 3-4 minutes in https://www.motor1.com/news/510362/o...ket-tire-test/
I have like most of you 19” x J9 fronts and 20” x J10 rears fitted with 255/35/19 96Y and 285/30/20 99Y on my R231. These are shod with Continental sport contact 5p and I really don’t like them especially when even gently pushed

It’s not helped by the fact when I bought the car from a MB dealership front and rear tracking was out and the front offside caster angle so the tyres despite the 5/6mm of tread have worn at an angle and the front offside has a cupping causing tramlining even now that the geometry is corrected and the rear wobbles when cruising. Its also easier to turn left than right and the wheel is 10 degrees to the left
I also think the tyres are rather stiff but that’s not age related they are week 27 2019 the car when I bought it had only done 20+K miles

So I fancy pilot Sport 4S but as many of you have found out 255/35/19 96Y is available in MO1 Mercedes the MO1 standing for performance but not in 285/30/20 99Y so front tyres will have a different construction to the rears BUT 295/30/20 101Y are available in MO1Mecades

Some of you on here say they used the 295 tyre on the 10J rear others claim they needed 10.5J or 11J so I asked Michelin BUT after 3 emails no reply to the question will 295/30/20 101Y fit a 20” x 10J rim in fact 2 said my wheels should be 19” rears

Finally tonight after just giving make and model plus BHP current wheels /tyres and yet again Michelin say no“.....Saying that unfortunately I do not have good news. We do not have or produce the size you are requesting in the version of. the one I see with MO marking is the Michelin Pilot Super Sport with the estimated availability date of 25th April.....”
BUT that’s says buy a decade older design of tyre that’s know not to be as good and maybe asking verbally might get a different response than in writing?

I have asked again but I guess I will never get an clear answer on 295 vs 10J rim, I do appreciate that tyres stretched across any rim as the 285 are is far better than tyres bunched onto in this case a 10J rim as the 295 will be and that will mean in increase in contact to road patch area
See here for rim VS tyre size https://tiresize.com/tires/Michelin/Pilot-Sport-4S.htm
also https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tools/fit-t...e-rim/10-00x20
For which tyre fits rim sizes and it says 295/30/20 are fine .......... but is that a valid opinion many on the WEB are not

The other option is a CUP2 that’s is M01 Mercedes approved but that’s a track tyre and I have used track day tyres on my Caterham 7 they are really poor in the wet and near useless in torrential rain.

So finally to you that have fitted 295/30/20 on that 10J rim

1 Do the 295 fit well the last thing I want is the tyre rolling off the rim on hard cornering or even a puncher?
2 Are you impressed with the PS4S given most testing videos endlessly if not OTT praise them?
3 Are spacers required with 295 to clear framework?
4 if I use 295 should I use 265 on the fronts so both tyres look the same
5 Anyone using the CUP 2 as a day to day tyre?

Having said all that my wife’s BMW 540i (3litre) M Sport X-drive is fitted with Pirelli run-flats P Zero MO approved BMW and I cannot fault them. The car handles faultlessly at speed though bendy roads and far better than the SL63 R231 ever will as its not 4 wheel drive far heavier and has that heavier V8 up front and............ ABC suspension that's good for a mixture of used comfort and handling but I think useless for pushing anywhere near the cars full handling potential. If the PS4S are all they are claim they should much reduce that now enormous difference in handling but I think only if they a branded MO1 Mercedes

superswiss

I'm guessing there are many of us that run the PS4S on their AMGs. I've had them on my C63S coupe for a couple of years now. I'm running the non-MO/MO1 version and stock size. I'm not fond of going bigger. Bigger also means more unsprung weight.

The PS4S is a much newer tire with learnings from previous tires, so it's all relative. The PS4S rides better, handles better and communicates better than the stock MO/MO1 PSS my car came with. I actually was kinda disappointed with the MO/MO1 PSS. I had the PSS on cars before and I remembered them to be better, but I also had the PS4S on my previous car and the PSS was simply a noticeable step backwards, MO/MO1 or not. MO/MO1 does not mean inherently better, it just means AMG/MB worked with the tire manufacturers to tune the tires to what they wanted them to be.

It looks like we have the same sizes, and I'm aware that the fronts are now available as MO. The rears are actually available as BMW Star, which is the one on the M3. TireRack offers that combination for my C63S coupe. MO for the front and BMW Star for the rear. I'm considering that combination for my next set, but as I said, the standard PS4S is a great tire and performs exceptionally.

Wolfman

Sounds like a good suggestion to go the MO/BMW route. Our M8comp has MO PS4s tires, awesome tires which easily beat the Pirelli's they otherwise install on their cars. We also had the PS4s on our last SL (2017) 19" F & 20" R and the tires were fantastic as well, MO or not. That said, it's ok to run 295s without any issues.
Strongly suggest to stay away from Cup2's; this is a track-ready tire that is not great in the wet. Something I would put on a AMG GTR, not a SL...

superswiss

I echo the suggestion on the Cup 2. I actually haven't driven my car in the rain for pretty much the last 2 years, so Cup 2's here in NorCal could be an option, however, one thing to be aware of is that the Cup 2 starts out at a lower tread depth. 7.1/32" if I remember correctly vs ~10/32" for the PS4S and most other street tires. Dry performance of tires gets better as they wear. They don't achieve peak dry performance until they are worn down to about 6-7/32". Remember, the grooves are only there to expel water, but they negatively impact dry handling and grip. The grooves and tread blocks add flex to the tire and reduce the amount of compound that makes contact with the road, so track tires have less tread depth when new to improve dry handling out of the box, but that means you get less mileage out of them. Obviously wet performance diminishes as the tire wears, so you have to pick what's most important to you.

crconsulting

Just to clarify, is this currently happening? You said you had the alignment done, but with the worn/cupped tires in place? Rear wobble?
(I know alignment can be done with old tires but rear wobble might be a bent rim)

As Wolfman (and superswiss) stated, these are track tires and will wear quickly on an SL. They aren’t very good once it rains either. Plus they have less thread, so that will translate into a noisier/stiffer ride
Since you have An SL63 you may be ok with that, but it may be something to consider.

billvp218

I have 295/30/19 PS4S on my SL63's rear, and they fit fine. They also handle great IMO. They were a vast improvement on the stock Continentals, in both handling and traction/acceleration.

Bilbo7

Hi all

Thank you for your kind replies and I fully agree with the comments especially track tyres great for quick heat up but as i said I use to run Yokohama Ao48's on my 7n that near useless in torrential rain but wonderful in the dry.
I have asked Michelin about 285/30 MO BMW but they take 2 days to reply and I think that will be a straight from the catalogue reply anyway. Currently I am seeing if I can square up the Continentals now that the tracking camber and the caster angles have been corrected. so today I overinflated to wear the centers down and 250miles later it seemed the slight cupping was a tad better but all that's just a short term solution
Thank you for saying the 295/30/20 are fine but at present the front and rears have the same sidewall height but I don't see 295/30 looking different.
As the 285/30% of width is 85.5mm high and the fronts 255/30% are 89.5mm. So if I fit 295/30 then its even better at 88.5mm but that's not the whole story as the 295/30 will bulge a tad more than the 285/30.

Crconsulting the rims are fine spin tyres and run a piece of chalk across the with shown clearly the wear. Its just that although the car off MB main approved site turned out to be a total lemon and its taken from 1st July 2021 until now to get all the issues sorted but none at my expense and I have 2weeks to say yes that's the lot but they will not change the tyres as they are legal with mostly 5+mm tread. So in 10 days I will write 8months in the life of a Lemon over 8 days one post a month but not post garage names etc.

Superswiss well the PSS are at least a decade earlier than the PS4S and no I bet there is a PS5S that has been in development since before the PS4S was launched. That video link I posted shows these manufactures tweaks are substantial but I could question if all the MO are the real tyre and the non MO are a commercial cost saving in manufacture?

So billvp218 its nice to read your happy with the 295/30/19 rears but did you also change the fronts to 265/35/19?

In all of this such wide tyres are a huge investment just for me to decide after 2 days it was the wrong one GRIN

Great weather in UK the cars been out 3 times since it came back again from MB with top down going from London to the south coast in barmy 17C that's unusually high for March for you all on the other side of the pond

In 2 months its off to Spain hopefully top down all the way there and back etc so my choice is swap tyres now/before then or after I get back some 3000 miles later but I would rather do it within 4 weeks

superswiss

@Bilbo7 I would not generalize the level of differences in the BMW Star variant. While all car manufacturers work with the tire manufacturers to tune the tires to their needs, they are not generally at this level. The most recent Inside AMG episode is actually about this very topic of how AMG works with the tire manufacturers to tune their tires. On some of them they certainly go to the extreme like the Cup 2 R that Michelin specifically developed for the GT BS. BMW puts more emphasis on track prowess with their M cars, and they essentially wanted a tire that's closer to the Cup 2 while not compromising on daily driving and wet performance quite as much. I think it's a good tire over the standard PS4S for somebody like me who lives in a mostly dry climate and doesn't really need the improved wet performance of the standard PS4S (300+ dry days in a typical year here).

Wolfman

The other issue we have in the US is availability. All AMG GTC's came with PSS instead of PS4's (even in 2020). Needed new rears and figured we go to PS4s just to find out they are backordered to infinity and beyond. Hope you have better luck in the UK!

billvp218

No, I have 255/35/19 PS4S on the front.

Bilbo7

Hi

Thank you all and BillVP218 I don't want to go wider on the fronts despite the heavy engine trying to straighten a corner.
Some I read say there is little feedback from the wheels but that's true of every power steering car and this is not the worst for that that I have driven in fact adding more air pressure seems to give better feedback BUT that will be always detrimental to center of the tyre wear.

I had a reply from Michelin on Rim width
Minimum 10" optimal 10.5" and maximum 11"

Bilbo7

Superswiss I liked the Video once you get past the Hello Mr Tracy start GRIN

Few interesting bits on the 2022 model

1. The car had the rear built in roll bars deployed but looked lower than the AMG drivers head
2. Being tall where to I buy that FIA roll bar GRIN
3. I failed to work out which Michelin tyre they tested as they were not badged from model but looked a tad different to PS4S and will Continentals not have aan approved tyre for the 2022 car. I doubt that as tendering laws in EU say they have to have competitors. I found that when I wanted a new widescreen a decade ago and the tint colour was vastly different and I had to get it changed again to a Pilkington glass manufacturer screen
4. I would not have turned down the wet track ride
5. Yes they do as the BMW video link I posted check tyres and I note he says for every car but I still feel it must a size and weight for a car model not one size fits all and is recommended sizes. So its odd there is no 285/30/20 MO1 approved tyre
6. Lastly I liked the nervousness look on the AMG drivers face when the presenter drove on the first set of tyres but he was far more relaxed with the err corrected second set of tyres

My Sl63 R231 2015 was a pig when driven even slightly enthusiastically, in fact even when slower when I bought it and nearly got rid of the car after a short test run but I always thought it was tyres and steering geometry
So I well understand that stated in the video tiring feeling from driving when needing to make endless constant changes with the SL handling more like a 1960's car. I nearly got rid of the car until MD dealership finally admitted the front and rear tracking and offside caster angle was out but only after I had them checked a a tyre shop. Caster angle was sorted by fitting a cam bolt on the lower suspension arm not something Tyre shops do. The difference since then is amazing.

Wolfman

SL's are known to wear the inner tire even with correct alignment. After a tip from a master tech we increased the tire pressure by 2-3 psi on the rears only and voila, problem solved. And NO, there are zero issues on uneven wear including the center (rears only)
We had three R231 with the exact same wheel setup as yours.

Keon

+1 on 295-wide PS4S. It's an amazing tire.

rorywquin

I was looking at tyres this morning and cannot find any Michelins in the country to fit my rears285/30 R19 . There does seem to be stock for the front 255/35 R19. The car was delivered PZEROS and I have no complaints except that they seem to be about 25% more expensive that Michelins and I hear&read Michelin are better hence my interest.

Wolfman

Similar to the conversation above, look for 295's. They will work just the same and Michelin PS4s are dramatically better than P Zeros IMO. Better grip and cornering plus longer lasting.

rorywquin

How about the front - can I go 10mm wider if needed?

Wolfman

Yes you can. At that point you do want to use 295's then. Please see chart...

rorywquin

Thanks.

rorywquin

I’m not unhappy with the handling performance of the PZero. I also had them (but directional) on my daily driver R172 SLK 350 without issues.

Michelin, for my car, are 20% more expensive than MO Pirellis.

Do you get 20% more miles on the Michelin tyres or are you mainly interested in grip and cornering.

I’ll probably get 20,000 miles out of the rears - what do you get on yours?

Wolfman

We usually got 10-12k miles out of Pirelli rears. I felt that the ride felt less smooth are the tire profile was wearing.

PS4s and PSS before lasted as long as we had the cars, which was usually 20-25k miles.
But the handling was the highlight, durability the gravy

rorywquin

Thanks for the feedback.

Perhaps you drive your car harder than I do mine and most of my mileage is accrued on long road trips (however this also implies a load in the boot adding to the wear). The original P-Zeros on the rear (18,400 miles) are still comfortably clear of the wear indicators.

However right now, it is all academic as I cannot find any MIchelin stock to suit the car.

Bilbo7

Hi

Well I have a cut in the center of the tread to my offside rear Continental Contact 5P and its failed MOT so I need a tyre ASAP. Therefore it is a good time for me to change to Michelin Pilot Sport 4S and use 295/30/ ZR20 XL M01
BUT on back order for over 1 month............. EVEN Michelin UK do not have any. Before I found that out I wasted 4 days with promises yes they are in stock for tomorrow etc orders then sorry out of stock............
Don't use RAC Tyre's or Formula 1 websites....... the latter's actual shops were helpful

I guess I will end up with another Continental Contact 5P tyre I hate just to get the car back on the road (MUTTER)


Don't think I want CUP 2 it rains in the UK

ToeKneee

Shame you don't have 19" wheels, I have a tyre sitting in the garage you could of had.

rorywquin

Stop bragging .