cal1

It’s Saturday morning and I’m heading into work driving I465, the beltway around Indy metro. Moto GP is in town out at the speedway. Indiana State Police (ISP) unmarked Mustang GTs are everywhere. I guess they planned on a real Hoosier welcome for all of the visitors. I have been on 465 three miles and have seen as many ISP stangs when I come up on another one. Everyone around him (must have been locals) knew who he was so they were all going way slow, maybe 50 – 55. The speed limit is an incredibly slow 55 that nobody does unless a cop is around. I’m doing 61 and slide into the left lane and pass him slowly. Looking at him as I pass, I see his ISP patch on his shoulder through the heavily tinted window no doubt darker than 35, the legal state limit. There is a car in front of me that passed him as well; I am mirroring his speed… still 61. Moments later, in the rearview mirror, I notice the unmistakable Mustang grille looking as if it was going to go up my ***. I did not see the lights for a moment as they were blocked by my roll bar which for some reason I love to keep up even when the top is closed. I quickly pull over.

I have only been pulled over a few times in over thirty years of driving and quickly have license, registration and proof of insurance in my hands that are both clearly visible on the top of my steering wheel ready for the officer. This time, I am baffled, wondering why this guy pulled me over. Did he want to tell me he liked my car? He appears at my door and says: you past me. Now even more baffled, I said: yes sir at 61 MPH. He said that he clocked me with radar going 71. After giving him my vitals, he left and quickly reappeared with a ticket for 71 in a 55. I told him I knew he was unmarked and carefully watched my speed at 61 and passed him at that speed just as the nondescript sedan in front of me did. He acknowledged the sedan and then became a bit angry when I told him I planned to contest the ticket. To try and calm him, I said I was not angry with him; I was just going to exercise my legal rights. He then walked away.

My plans are to schedule a court date and explain the events to a judge. Although the easy thing to do is pay the $150 fine, I feel he was in error. I would even be happy for the judge to reduce my speeding ticket to 61 in a 55. At least it would be fair and accurate. So I seek the forums advice. Should I quit being a dumb *** and just pay the fine or should I contest? At this point I would even spend $1,000 on a lawyer to right what I feel is wrong.

Exotic-metal55

Unless you need to vent, your word against the officer and I think we know who the judge will site with everytime.

My ticket record is as good as your but me and my wife have both recieved bogus speeding tickets in the last month.. I mean really bogus.. I feel the economy has forced more tickets to be written to increase city revenues, lost from lower tax base..

charles pearson

Dude, get an attorney and go to court if at all possible, if in fact what you say is true I call you stand a good chance in court on this. If you just pay the fine you will have other repercussions to suffer ie. points, insurance premiums, and a guilty plea. As for myself, I would rather pay money any day as opposed to a guilty plea with points added to my driving record. Just so that you know I just left the court room this past Wednesday facing suspension plus jail time for reckless driving (105 mph in a 45 mph zone), and I left with a $2,000 fine, no jail time, and no suspension, it's all about the money and not safety Bro. However, your case is not as complicated as mine therefore you stand a good chance in court. I would not go without seeking legal counsel, reason being those officers are supposed to be certified in Radar as well as the calibration too, and you really need an attorney to be on the safe side in assisting you in this matter, as the prior post stated, his word against yours carries more weight that you alone. I am willing to bet my Ranger tab that he pulled you and only you because of your car. Once again, Forum members, just as I have stated in the past, police officers fail to use discretion and act off of impulse, furthermore inadvertently stereotyping seems to be the trend with the boy's in blue. Sometimes I just want to put them in a bent arm bar and wait for it to snap as they plead for leniency via tap out, now they will act like they are human

photonut

ask for an informal hearing. at the hearing, if the cop shows up, plea bargain down the offense to an offense with no points. the courts and the police department are just interested in collecting the fee!! as long as you are willing to pay to play, they will let you off and your insurance costs will remain the same! if the cop fails to show, your case is over!!

320 dreamer

indiana has traffic school. 8 hrs boring talk 100$ and the ticket dissapears

cal1

Thanks for all the great input. You guys are all touching on what is nagging at me. First, the merc got picked out of the pack and second, it seems to be all about revenue instead of safety. In my state as I guess everyone’s, the real safety issue is DUI and people running red lights on surface streets, not 61 or 71 from the ISP officer’s perspective on the very safe freeway. The other issue that really gets me is; on the back of the ticket, it clearly states that if I have not gotten a speeding ticket in the last 6 months which I have not and I pay the fine, the county (Marion) will not report to the state Bureau of Motor Vehicles (BMV). This way, my insurance company will never know. If I contest and lose, the info will be reported. It just doesn’t seem right and clearly set up to motivate me to contribute to the state coffers.

charles pearson

I have never heard of this, the back of your ticket states that if you pay the fine and as long as you have not been cited for speeding within the past 6 months, they will not report it to the (BMV). I know Virginia is screwed up, but what kind of state do you live in Bro? I understand your delima, sounds like you are STUCK like Chuck! I wonder who the crooks are, the criminals or the Police? Well you gotta do what you gotta do Bro, good luck, I am baffled, but one thing is for sure, I can't play the race card, I have seen everyone get hammered by the police, Whites, Blacks, hispanics, Asians, handicap, and even heard of attorney's and Judges from other counties in VA to get hammered for speeding were I come from. There is no discrimination here at all, outside of cops not giving cops speeding tickets. You know I was considering on becoming a state trooper or a member of a S.W.A.T. team when I retire, but now I would not feel like a professional knowing that the public hated me. In fact I respect DEA task force's comprised of various agencies and other police detachments, I just dislike traffic cops. I will say this, I have encountered the most professional VA state trooper the other day while getting caught driving in a HOV-3 lane in my SL, LOL. He saw my military I.D. and maybe he didn't want to cite me in front of my 8 year old son sitting in the passenger seat playing with his Nintendo DS game, so he asked if I served in Iraq. I told him yes and that I had survived two near ambushes over there, so he thanked me for my service as he very politely ran down the law to me as to who, what, when, and were are allowed to drive in the HOV-3. Turns out that just because you see two passenger cars in those lanes, people pay for a sticker to travel in those lanes, oops on my part for assuming that I could do the same. Anyway he stopped all traffic and allowed me to back out in the middle of traffic and sent me on my mary way, I wish they all were professional like him, and he was a pretty big fella too, a bit bigger than me so I knew he wasn't some squirmy old fragile cop who hides behind his badge.

sakodik

What you did was wrong, speeding above the speed limit of 55. That is what the judge will say if he or she has a bad day. Thats how I felt the judge treated everyone in the courtroom I went to. If he said he clocked you, then he clocked you. I was "paced" at doing 60-70 in a 45 while clearly cruise controlling at 51 on the speedometer and satellite tracking. I went to court and the cop did not show up and I won my case. Luckily, I made friends with the cop and what not, so I believed that played a huge part in him not showing up. But aside my story, I believe you should contest and the judge should lower the limit to 61. But as for breaking the law, yes you are at fault. Ultimately, its up to the judge! I hope you get a victory. Goodluck

cal1

You’ve got it my friend. Here it is, word for word it is called the Safe Driver Diversion:

“If you are eligible for the safe driver diversion program and pay this ticket within 60 days from the date you received this ticket then it will not be reported as a judgment against you to the Indiana Bureau of Motor Vehicles and your licensing state. You are not required to attend any classes in order to take advantage of this option. You are eligible if you have had no moving violations within the past six months.”

It goes on to say that there are certain offenses it does not apply to, but they don’t include my situation.

IngenereAMG

It's all about the revenue.

Reckless

I tell you what I do when cops **** me off.... I call the local police department if he is a local cop, I ask to speak to the manager on duty at the time of the incident. I explain who I am and what I do politely. Then I tell him the story and tell him who the cop was. I also mention if I felt the cop was anything but polite and understanding. I suggest to the manager that this cop should be reprimanded for his behavior and that if I had an employee like him I would terminate his employment (depending how I feel). I also remind the manager what their sworn duty is and how my rights were infringed. I explain if I was unfairly profiled and if the cop treated me like a perp. I do take the time to compliment if necessary the village for their good work and applaud them for keeping the streets clean esp from DUI offenders.

If the manager doesn't help then I go to the police commissioner. Call and ask him if he would like to go a steakhouse for lunch (haven't been taken up the offer yet).

I got one police officer in trouble 6 months ago, the next month got pulled over by his partner and was let go because he didn't want to deal with the headache. He was fully aware of the trouble I caused his partner, his boss viewed the video tape of the incident more than once.

BTW, I have testified against police officers and won twice and lost once. I usually put on my republican suit (navy blue jacket with the gold buttons) with the republican walk when going to court.

I always ask to see the radar whenever I get pulled over, sometimes they admit I was going to fast for them to get me on radar. Sometimes, they refuse to show me. I've had times where they let me go because I called them out (I accelerate/decelerate so fast they cant even begin to tell how fast I was going -braking from 130 down to 60). I have countless stories...

It is worth the effort to make friends with the gas station attendant where the cops hang out. State prosecutors/judges/officers all have to buy gas and donuts.

carcommander

Most local budgets are in trouble. Sales tax is down, property tax is down, revenue sharing is down. They don't really have a choice. NEVER pass a cop especialy in a car he will never be able to afford. you were going over the limit and passed him that's like daring him to stop you. What do you exspect. Pay the fine and go on with your life. I got a ticket in my F430 that was completely bogus. Got it reduced so that it did not go on my record. ticket was 500 attourney was 1500. Speed tax.

charles pearson

OK I can understand your point, but what about the stereotype? Clearly he stated that a car had passed the same cop right in front of him, and then the cop clips him...you said it yourself, most cops can not afford this car and that gives them a clear case of the Dumb A$$. Also what happened to the 5mph buffer zone? I have passed cops doing 5mph over the limit, I think your waisting the courts time by writing a citation anywhere from 5 to 8 mph over the limit. Let's face it and keep it real, sometimes you have to do a little extra just to get in and out of a situation. My thing is there is a difference between someone speeding for a long extended period of time as opposed to a few seconds and than dropping it back down, that's were police discretion should come into play, but I guess they don't teach that. I will follow a cop when I truly believe that he or she is not on a emergency call as they are doing anywhere from 10 to 20 mph over the limit, just to find them pulling into a restaurant were all of the Calvary has already parked, but sometimes it's justifiable. Either way it's difficult to be certain as to their intent, but I think that they believe that they are above the law and know that we have no real way of knowing when and when not they should speed. Cops kill other motorist too by speeding, I know this for a fact.

Akademiks

You played with fire and got burned. I don't see the problem here. Essentially you admit to breaking the law (by the officers sworn declaration of 16mph or your own admission of 6mph, it makes no difference), and are asking for leniency; wether the judge decides to play nice or not depends entirely on how his or her day is going, but if you go up there and admit to breaking the law do not expect a dismissal.

cal1

I am not denying I exceeded the speed limit by six miles per hour. I admitted as much to the officer that pulled me over. I would feel exonerated and happily accept an entry by the court of driving 61 in a 55. I am not asking for leniency. With an unblemished driving record in Indiana, I can simply pay the $150 and continue to have a spotless driving record. This is certainly not about the money. Writing the check makes everything go away and is the easiest most simple thing to do. Maybe I will. Apparently, I did a poor job of expressing what I believed to be deeper issues in my original post.

So I'm guessing your answer to my question is: quit being a dumb *** and pay the fine

Akademiks

I never said you denied it, I simply meant contesting a ticket would imply you will deny it. I would be hard pressed to believe you would go to court in the interest of true justice to simply have the ticket reduced to 61 from 71, in which your contestation would result in you still being in the wrong and still having to pay the fine. It just doesn't make any sense.

I'm not saying you are a dumb *** at all. Just make sure if you contest, you deny everything The judges don't care by what margin you broke the law-- the fact you broke it is their only concern.

Try a trial by written declaration. You have nothing to lose, you post bail, submit your story and if you win, you get your money back and if you lose, you at least contested.

Best of luck, I myself am currently dealing with two tickets as well, and am due in court tomorrow. Joy...

allenjdmb

but yes, the judge is going to ask you "Mr. X, are you in fact admitting to exceeding 55 MPH here?" Since you are under oath, you will say yes, and in about 10 seconds will be found guilty. If the insurance is really your concern, then sounds like payiing the State the "Tax" (which is all it is) is your best bet. One other small point of order--whether it's a speeding ticket, DUI, or auto accident, I always tell my friends and clients this--you can't fix it on the side of the road. When you let him know you planned on appearing, you virutally guaranteed his appearance as well. Best to take quick action immediately afterwards, and NOT with the officer, but with a good contact if you have one.
If you're driving one of these cars that we love, I say you got off cheap at $150. Next.

roberthechter

Same thing happened to me in Las Vegas, NV Its tuff to win because the state will call a witness, the cop that pulled you over and he will testify he got you on radar. If you don't have a witness to call, they are already one up on you. just my 2 cents, ps I lost my case

cal1

Your right, you never did say I denied it. I hit the submit reply button in haste.

You may have just hit the nail on the head. I am seeking true justice. I am the type of guy that would go to court and feel exonerated if I was found guilty doing 61 in a 55. I am a dumb *** (calling myself that). By the way, the police normally do not pull people over for doing 61 in a 55. Not that it matters in court.

Thanks for the info regarding a written declaration. I will check into it.

good luck today.

cal1

One of your jobs as a lawyer is to mitigate the damages your client has already done, correct?

Next time I get pulled over, I will keep my big mouth shut. The funny thing is, the policeman did the same thing. I commented at one point about how I see them all the time. Meaning the unmarked Mustangs. He responded by saying: you haven't seen me, in a very terse way. This got me thinking so I used information on the ticket to figure out were his post is. It is in southern Indiana in a little Podunk town 120 miles south of Indy. He was likely up here because of the Moto GP this weekend. He may not want to spend most of his day at the Marion County courthouse which is a very busy place and a couple of hours from home. He won't know the judges either like he probably knows judge Billybob in his small town.

I may have a good contact as well. My neighbor is a judge in the Marion Co. Courts. I suppose I should chat with her. I shut her water off after a pipe froze last winter. Maybe she will help.

Do you think I should take a shot at contesting and see if he drives up from BFE Indiana or just pay the fine?


Thanks for the advice.

donjrky

From my past experience, if you don't take an attorney with you, it's 2 against 1. The judge will almost always side with the cop, even if he thinks you're right. So, the cost of an attorney vs the cost of the ticket comes down to wanting to prove a point. That point being right, at the cost of 4 or 5 times the cost of the ticket for the attorney, or just pay the ticket. Why do you think they price the fines the way they do. You can't beat their system. Even if you win in court, you loose. Your only chance for total victory is if the cop doesn't show up for court.
Good luck which ever way you go.

BeltFedBob

Round these parts, the cop does not need to show up for routine traffic. The Judge takes the statement on the reverse of the NOI as sworn testimony. It all depends on how the cop articulates the event including everything said during the stop. (you don't see that part of the NOI unless you request Discovery)

donjrky

There’re figuring out other ways to put the screws to all of us. It's hard to beat the system!

cal1

Thanks, I'm checking to see how it works in Indiana.