SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: low mph in 1/4 for modded sl65
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2006 SL55
low mph in 1/4 for modded sl65
I have a 2006 sl65 with a tune from eurocharged (stage 2) along with a tcu from speedriven. The car has a brand new heat exchanger pump from mercedes (warranty replacement). I drove the car horribly at the track and understand that is why I was running between 12.2 and 12.6 (my best 60 ft was 2.2). What I don't get is why my best trap was 117. I got that once where I repeatedly got 114mph traps. (about 10 passes) The car will be going on a dyno in a few weeks to check the tune but I am confused. With the horrible traction I would expect a higher trap than usual. This car should be fully capable of low to mid 120 traps. Any suggestions? I thought it could be a IAT issue but like stated the car has a brand new pump. It was ideal conditions. The day was a peak of low 70's. I'm looking forward to the input of others. TIA!
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
I'd wager that your I/C pump is bad, even though it was just replaced. Or, they didn't properly bleed the I/C circuit, when they intalled your new pump.
114 mph is pitiful for a modded 65.
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
I'd hold off on upgrading the h/e because you're not even running stock mph yet. I'd have the dealer bleed the system and check the pump.
A quick a dirty way to see if your pump is workin is to bring the car up to temp, and have it idle. Press the schrader valve at the top/rear of
the engine and see of coolant shoots out.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Maryland
Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
Make sure it spits fluid when hot too. Checking the shrader will only tell you if the pump is working, not really how well it's working. Your symptoms sound like classic heat soak. My gut feeling is that your pump is bad, but there's a slim possibility its the tune. Doubtful, but possible.
When you got the tune done, did your car 'feel' faster to you?
Since the dealer just replaced the pump, I'd start there first. Why did they replace it, anyway? Was it to troubleshoot this exact issue?
When you got the tune done, did your car 'feel' faster to you?
Since the dealer just replaced the pump, I'd start there first. Why did they replace it, anyway? Was it to troubleshoot this exact issue?
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From: Texas
2004 E55
Have you checked for a boost leak?
I was running 113-114 mph at the track last weekend....... This thoroughly disgusted me as the car has ran 124 mph in the past. I opened the hood and noticed that the dealership that had recently done work on the car didn't tighten two clamps on the boosted side of the driver's side intercooler.... I tightened the clamps and immediately ran 120 mph.
Might check all the clamps.
I was running 113-114 mph at the track last weekend....... This thoroughly disgusted me as the car has ran 124 mph in the past. I opened the hood and noticed that the dealership that had recently done work on the car didn't tighten two clamps on the boosted side of the driver's side intercooler.... I tightened the clamps and immediately ran 120 mph.
Might check all the clamps.
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From: Maryland
Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
Have you checked for a boost leak?
I was running 113-114 mph at the track last weekend....... This thoroughly disgusted me as the car has ran 124 mph in the past. I opened the hood and noticed that the dealership that had recently done work on the car didn't tighten two clamps on the boosted side of the driver's side intercooler.... I tightened the clamps and immediately ran 120 mph.
Might check all the clamps.
I was running 113-114 mph at the track last weekend....... This thoroughly disgusted me as the car has ran 124 mph in the past. I opened the hood and noticed that the dealership that had recently done work on the car didn't tighten two clamps on the boosted side of the driver's side intercooler.... I tightened the clamps and immediately ran 120 mph.
Might check all the clamps.
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2006 SL55
When I checked the schrader the car was hot but the coolant that came out was cold. I figured it would be warm if not hot. should it be cold? the pump was replaced due to lack of power. the car did feel faster after the tune. either I quickly got used to the power or it now feels almost stock again. as far as a boost leak, other than visual items is there a way to tell?
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
When I checked the schrader the car was hot but the coolant that came out was cold. I figured it would be warm if not hot. should it be cold? the pump was replaced due to lack of power. the car did feel faster after the tune. either I quickly got used to the power or it now feels almost stock again. as far as a boost leak, other than visual items is there a way to tell?
If the engine was hot, and the coolant was cool, it sounds like the pump is doing it's job.
Hmmmmm, I wonder......
When the dealer replaced the pump for "lack of power", is there any chance that they reflashed your ECU? Many times, one of the steps for dealers to diagnose/repair power issues, is to reflash the ECU to their latest and greatest.
Jerry will retune your ECU for free, so it might be worth it to send it out to him, and let him take a look. He'll be able to tell instantly, if it has his tune or a stock tune on it.
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Supra
Running into a similar issue, but will start my own thread. I'm barely trapping 119mph on a Speedriven tune (run was 11.82 @ 118.8). I've logged the runs:
Boost: Peaked at 22.68psi, bottom of 3rd gear and trailed off to 16.38 at the top of 3rd.
IAT: Peaked at 127.4F at the end of the run.
I even flashed the car to stock and logged to make sure the tune was "working", I confirmed that the tune did in fact raise boost and was accepted by the ECU.
Only thing haven't checked yet is Fuel Rail Pressure...that was Marcin's suggestion. He said the static FP should be 60-61psi. If that's low, obviously, it'll rob HP.
*edit* why bother starting a new thread...I have an S65, but we share motors...
Boost: Peaked at 22.68psi, bottom of 3rd gear and trailed off to 16.38 at the top of 3rd.
IAT: Peaked at 127.4F at the end of the run.
I even flashed the car to stock and logged to make sure the tune was "working", I confirmed that the tune did in fact raise boost and was accepted by the ECU.
Only thing haven't checked yet is Fuel Rail Pressure...that was Marcin's suggestion. He said the static FP should be 60-61psi. If that's low, obviously, it'll rob HP.
*edit* why bother starting a new thread...I have an S65, but we share motors...
Last edited by Philly Single; Nov 29, 2010 at 10:28 AM.
Thread Starter
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2006 SL55
If the engine was hot, and the coolant was cool, it sounds like the pump is doing it's job.
Hmmmmm, I wonder......
When the dealer replaced the pump for "lack of power", is there any chance that they reflashed your ECU? Many times, one of the steps for dealers to diagnose/repair power issues, is to reflash the ECU to their latest and greatest.
Jerry will retune your ECU for free, so it might be worth it to send it out to him, and let him take a look. He'll be able to tell instantly, if it has his tune or a stock tune on it.
Hmmmmm, I wonder......
When the dealer replaced the pump for "lack of power", is there any chance that they reflashed your ECU? Many times, one of the steps for dealers to diagnose/repair power issues, is to reflash the ECU to their latest and greatest.
Jerry will retune your ECU for free, so it might be worth it to send it out to him, and let him take a look. He'll be able to tell instantly, if it has his tune or a stock tune on it.
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From: Houston, TX
18 Titan XD 13 Cayenne TT 13 BMW HP4
Where were you at - elevation wise? How long did you wait in between runs? It would be nice to see if you could see the timing as well. I had a similar issue with my Cayenne turbo and Jerry's first attempt to tune. Turned out it was a less than stellar tank of gas. After getting a couple of fresh tanks (at another station) he was able to get the power out of it. The program was just simply doing its job to protect the engine. Might be worth doing the same and throwing a couple of gallons of race unleaded in there to see if it picks up.
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2006 SL55
I was at sacramento raceway. I'm not sure of the elevation but it is quite low...thinking less than 100ft. My very first run which was my best was after driving 100 miles. Half of the runs were done back to back. The remaining few had maybe anywhere from 15-45 minutes in between. Jerry was going to come out this sat for a dyno day but not enough people showed interest. I wanted to get it on the dyno with him there to see. Hopefully this will happen soon.
Last edited by SS2Z06; Nov 29, 2010 at 02:14 PM.
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From: Maryland
Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
Man....
I'm running out of ideas. So, we don't think it's the I/C pump, boost leak or just bad track conditions. We know the dealer didn't flash it back to stock, because ECU was done after it left the dealer for performance issues.
Wait....! You're stating that you had the car in for service, for what felt like a decrease in HP, before the car was tuned by Eurocharged? Did the dealer validate your claim and diagnose the problem, or did they just blindly throw a part (I/C pump) at the problem? What was the dealer's conclusion?
Honestly, I'd have Jerry flash your car back to stock with one of his remote tuners, and have the dealer successfully diagnose and repair your issue with a stock ECU file. Once your back to what your stock numbers should be, then have Jerry re-flash it.
What you don't want to do is keeping introducing new factors into the equation while troubleshooting. You'll end up just chasing a red herring.
You know....as I'm typing this, I just had an epiphany. You should PM user Marcus Frost, as I believe his SL65 also had a very mysterious loss of power. It took months to figure out, and in the end, it was something very simple IIRC. I'm having a hard time remembering what the issue was, exactly.
Either PM him, or search his posts.
I'm running out of ideas. So, we don't think it's the I/C pump, boost leak or just bad track conditions. We know the dealer didn't flash it back to stock, because ECU was done after it left the dealer for performance issues.
Wait....! You're stating that you had the car in for service, for what felt like a decrease in HP, before the car was tuned by Eurocharged? Did the dealer validate your claim and diagnose the problem, or did they just blindly throw a part (I/C pump) at the problem? What was the dealer's conclusion?
Honestly, I'd have Jerry flash your car back to stock with one of his remote tuners, and have the dealer successfully diagnose and repair your issue with a stock ECU file. Once your back to what your stock numbers should be, then have Jerry re-flash it.
What you don't want to do is keeping introducing new factors into the equation while troubleshooting. You'll end up just chasing a red herring.
You know....as I'm typing this, I just had an epiphany. You should PM user Marcus Frost, as I believe his SL65 also had a very mysterious loss of power. It took months to figure out, and in the end, it was something very simple IIRC. I'm having a hard time remembering what the issue was, exactly.
Either PM him, or search his posts.
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From: Maryland
Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
I don't think this was the issue I was remembering but quite interesting, none-the-less
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-airboxes.html
Pay particular attention to post #15
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-airboxes.html
Pay particular attention to post #15
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From: Houston, TX
18 Titan XD 13 Cayenne TT 13 BMW HP4
IIRC, my trap speeds dropped to 117 after back-to-back runs, but I have a stock tune. Probably a good idea to go back to the stock tune and see what happens. Was your 60' time high because of wheelspin with TC (traction control) off, or did you leave the TC on and let it handle things?
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From: Maryland
Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
IIRC, my trap speeds dropped to 117 after back-to-back runs, but I have a stock tune. Probably a good idea to go back to the stock tune and see what happens. Was your 60' time high because of wheelspin with TC (traction control) off, or did you leave the TC on and let it handle things?
117 was his best trap while most of his traps were 114. There's something going on here, without a doubt.
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SL55 AMG
hmmmn sounds like a mysterious problem...BOR is on the case
I think that with these cars they are so advanced that even the smallest detail gone wrong can lead to sub-optimal performance. Start modding and that adds more layers of uncertainty.
I think that with these cars they are so advanced that even the smallest detail gone wrong can lead to sub-optimal performance. Start modding and that adds more layers of uncertainty.
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From: Malibu, Ca
SL65, 427 COBRA (CSX-3127)73 911S, 246GTS (DINO SPYDER), CORNICHE,1962 PORSCHE TWIN GRILLE ROADSTER+
We had an S65 that with a Tune was slower! The ECU/TC/TCU saw too much power!
When the numerous computers in todays cars see too much power, torque or even boost the computers will sometimes take control and back down timing or release the boost pressure to protect the engine/trans from damage. This was designed into the computer programs and some of these files need to be modified along with the tune for the performance upgrade. Many performance tunes are tested on the dyno at WOT during a warm day. But sometimes as temps get lower or throttle position change in real life driving applications sometimes causing problems to arise.
I have read about problems tuning numerous V12s using a few different tuning companies TUNED FILES because the ECU ,Traction Control and Trans Control see way too much power and the cars computers often FIGHT BACK and dial down the timing/boost. There have also been issues with part throttle applications where the computers think the boost is too high at a certain throttle position and this can cause the ECU to shut down momentarily.
In one 2007 S600 the owner said his car would run AMAZING when it was 75+ degrees plus ambient temp... But when it cooled down below 70 degrees and the air got thick the ECU/TCU would see too much boost and randomly and instantly open the waste gate causing the car to buck violently. The bucking would only happen intermittently sometimes three times in a day then no problems for a week or more then it would start bucking again out of no-where. Needless to say diagnosing the issue was very very difficult.
I have read about problems tuning numerous V12s using a few different tuning companies TUNED FILES because the ECU ,Traction Control and Trans Control see way too much power and the cars computers often FIGHT BACK and dial down the timing/boost. There have also been issues with part throttle applications where the computers think the boost is too high at a certain throttle position and this can cause the ECU to shut down momentarily.
In one 2007 S600 the owner said his car would run AMAZING when it was 75+ degrees plus ambient temp... But when it cooled down below 70 degrees and the air got thick the ECU/TCU would see too much boost and randomly and instantly open the waste gate causing the car to buck violently. The bucking would only happen intermittently sometimes three times in a day then no problems for a week or more then it would start bucking again out of no-where. Needless to say diagnosing the issue was very very difficult.
Last edited by EXECMALIBU; Nov 30, 2010 at 06:35 PM.
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From: OC, CA
215
I have a 2006 sl65 with a tune from eurocharged (stage 2) along with a tcu from speedriven. The car has a brand new heat exchanger pump from mercedes (warranty replacement). I drove the car horribly at the track and understand that is why I was running between 12.2 and 12.6 (my best 60 ft was 2.2). What I don't get is why my best trap was 117. I got that once where I repeatedly got 114mph traps. (about 10 passes) The car will be going on a dyno in a few weeks to check the tune but I am confused. With the horrible traction I would expect a higher trap than usual. This car should be fully capable of low to mid 120 traps. Any suggestions? I thought it could be a IAT issue but like stated the car has a brand new pump. It was ideal conditions. The day was a peak of low 70's. I'm looking forward to the input of others. TIA!
