Gustav

At last

http://www.bmwm5.com/movies/m5vssl55amg.mpg

more here:

http://www.bmwm5.com/vbulletin/showt...threadid=31224

Finnish C32

stock m5 is slow as **** so maybe we should think something similar..670hp Kleemann SL55 vs nowack bimmers?

Gustav

Yes and I would be more than happy to see a video of that race. So please tell me when you got it and I'll gladly watch it. I love races.

terrence

The SL55 is not a dragster, nor is it an all out sports car. It was never meant to be a sports car. It is a fast luxury coupe/convertible. Mario Andretti tested it and already made that comment. It is merely a great daily driver that has lots of power. I have a modified 996TT and it is easily faster than my SL55, but I only take it out at night or maybe sometimes on weekends because compared to the SL55, the 996TT is such a pain to drive around town. That car was designed to be an all out sports car and so that's OK. They serve totally different purposes, and so does an M5. A fair comparison should be a stock E55 vs a stock M5, or a modified E55 vs a modified M5.

White Knight II

Terrence, you have it exactly. Similarly, my Dodge truck will haul more stuff than my S600. So now should I use the truck to go out to dinner? After all, if we want to take another couple, they can just sit in the back - we're not going far. Who needs a 4-door sedan when you have a nice Dodge truck?

Cars are aimed at different market segments, and no car, however expensive, will outperform all others in all aspects. My Barchetta is (in my opinion) the ultimate performace open sportscar. But the SL55 is better for driving to the office every day. And the Aston-Martin Vantage convertible feels and looks more luxurious than both of them, although the other two cars will leave the A-M in the dust.

Everyone who reads this forum who has an SL55 could have bought any BMW. Most of us didn't. Most people who have bought a high-end BMW could have bought an SL55 (perhaps after a bit of a wait). Most of them didn't. And since most of the people in both groups are quite happy with their decision, it's pretty hard to claim that either group bought an inferior car.

As I said, my Dodge is very nice. Dinner, anyone?

GermanBrute

Maybe it's an SL 500 with a SL 55 -AMG badge?

Gustav

Dont give me that. Didnt you recognize the sound? And the oval exhausts?

vraa

I'll take you up! Remember, lets go somewhere where kids eat free

I'm pretty sure on my dads SL500 i could get some Eisenmann exhaust with the AMG55 tips and get the same look.

FInality

Also in the middle east you can order a normal Mercedes with the complete AMG exterior (exhaust, kit, interior) direct from the factory.

You need to pop the hood and take a look at the signature plate to be sure its a true AMG car.

Wouldn't suprise me if that was a real SL55 though. Gustav any chance you could get some dyno graphs?

Klint

haha....i see big defence tactics come out

Go M5!

dNA3D

Hey Gustav, you member here too!

Guys, that M5 belongs to a Saudi Prince, and I believe him when he whopped that SL55, and a RUF 911 Turbo, and a Stock 996 Turbo, and a Lamborghini Diablo. Sure, lets have a Kleemann 640HP (NOT 670HP) SL55 AMG take on BlackM5's Supercharged 600HP M5. I'm sure tranmission losses of the slushbox should translate to similar RWHP figures. Oh, don't forget about the weight advantage the M5 has :o

muhri

Erm! dNA3D, trust me.. saudi princes don't go around racing in the streets.. ok!

MacedoMS

Hmm, I was pretty darn impressed with the M5 when it was introduced a few years ago and we put a few to the test against stock Vipers. Now from a standing start, the car was no match, but from a 55 to 130mph roll the Viper only put two car lengths on the M5. Also, wasn't the M5 spanking the E55 when both cars were introduced? No flames intended BTW!

MacedoMS

LOL, maybe not a Saudi prince, but I know of areas like the UAE for instance that may take a chance now and again.

JAYCL600

I own a 2000 E55 and have extensive dragstrip experience. I have seen M5's post better times at the dragstrip than my car along with M3's. I have also raced a handful of both models on the road, and I can always pull on the M3 over 100MPH and the M5 Iam always dead even with and have pulled on a few above 120MPH, but I have NEVER lost to either model, and I have no problem admitting a loss, I have had my *** handed to me by a few 6sp Vettes (not the automatics)

dNA3D

Uhhh ok, if you insist. After all, you DO know better don't you??

muhri

I sure do, hence the trust me part

vraa

Go M5! word.

I was just talking to the guy that Mark in Florida sold his Dinan M5 too.. man. I'm amazed.

FInality

The M5 will have NO weight advantage over the SL55. For all the ranting that some M5 members go on about the M5 with a supercharger would actually weigh the same if not more than an Sl55 go ask Black M5 about the weight gain his car has gone through. More importantly the SL has better aerodynamics than the M5 but its obvious that automatic drivetrain loss is greater than a manuals. I am not sure about the weight of the SL55 wheels but lets not also forget how heavy stock M5 double parallels really are.

dNA3D

A M5 weighs just a tad under 4000lbs, an SL55 weighs just a tad over 4400lbs. I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt a Supercharger would add on 400lbs to a car's weight. And aerodynamics, a highly overrated component of a car's performance. Yes, AMS somehow managed to clock 32.5 seconds to 300km/h using a 476HP SL55, which beat a Lamborghini Diablo with 100HP more. Yet other road tests show the SL55 with 493HP to be significantly slower than the car AMS tested. Forged results? or simply a case of AMG supplying AMS with a boosted car. You decide.

FYI, all of BMW wheels weigh less than the AMG Monoblocks. Heck, 18" BMW wheels weigh less than 17" Monoblocks.

Ted Baldwin

...........I agree with everyone that the fact that one single M5 did better in than one single SL55 somewhere in the world does not mean much and that the SL55 was not intended to be a a street racer. However, mercedes built the SL55 and billed as the fastes MB and gave it a well deserved incredibly high price. Many people that bought the car thought they were buying the fastest production MB. Then comes the E55 at almost half price and it outperforms the SL55 and mercedes had to "de-tune" the E55 so that it has less HP than the SL55 even though they both have the same engine. If indeed none of this mattered, then MB would have not gone through the trouble of messing with the E55 by placing more restrictive intake ststem etc to prevent its HP rating from being the same as the SL55. This has happened before. This is what happened with the early Camaro's and corvettes. Corvette was the flagship for Chevrolet and the Camaro would outperform it in every internal test but the results were never published in order not to erode the sales of the Corvette. My point is that because of the way the SL55 was billed, it does matter that the E55 and M5 outperform it. Maybe that is why MB is rumored to be replacing the SL55 with SL65.

Ted

internet_mafia

This attitude about the SL55 "being fast, but not fast enough" needs to go away. Cars like the M5 and 911's are built for only one pupose alone, to race. I don't think the 55 was ever meant to be a "racer". How many other "racers" have extensive wood grain, air-conditioned/massaging seats, a steel folding hard top, tons of useless gadgets, a silky smooth ride, an engine that will last a lifetime, and gorgeous looks? Yet, to some people the 55 just isn't good enough.

The point I am trying to make is that you cannot have it both ways: you cannot mix luxury and speed and expect the car to perform at the extreme end of the spectrum. Naturally, the car is going to fall somewhere in the middle and fall short of some people's expectations. Deal with it. I don't see anybody complaining about the fact that you can raise/lower the top in 16 seconds, with the single push of the button, requiring no human intervention. How many other "exotic & high performance" cars can you do that in?

Anybody who didn't think that the E55 wouldn't beat the SL55 in performance has played themselves. Obvioulsy if you put the same exact engine in two cars, one being much heavier than the other, then the lighter one will be faster. Sounds like simple physics to me. That should not have been a surprise, but I understand the frustration of the customer that spent $117k+ on the SL55 only to find out that a much cheaper derivative can outperform it. But who wouldn't take a stock SL500 over an E55 anyday? If you woulnd't, then I suggest that you re-evaluate your expectations from a LUXURY car maker. If performance is that serious then why don't you buy something else.

The bottom line is that the SL55 was overhyped by the media and industry, putting the car in the center of attention and comparisons with other high-end cars. When the SL55 does fail to live up to its performance hype, nobody ever criticizes the "other" cars for not delivering what the SL55 naturally excels in: looks, practicality, reliability, and luxury...

Ted Baldwin

The bottom line is that the SL55 was overhyped by the media and industry, putting the car in the center of attention and comparisons with other high-end cars. When the SL55 does fail to live up to its performance hype, nobody ever criticizes the "other" cars for not delivering what the SL55 naturally excels in: looks, practicality, reliability, and luxury...

.............I agree with you . I think the SL55 is a great car and very fast car and I did not start this controversy. The problem started when this car was marketed as the fastest production Mb and a Porsche beater. As a result, it invites scrutiny when the car is neither the fastes production MB nor a Porsche beater. You don't hear anyone complaining about the CL55 not being fast enough.......because the car was never marketed that way. I think it is like Bill Bennett being criticized for gambling........he invited the criticism by the way he portrayed himself as being holier than everyone else.

As far as SL500 vs E55. Yes these are totally different cars , but I don't think I'm the only one that would take the SL500, sell it and buy an E55 and use the extra money to have all the factory bells and whistles in my E55......thereby having the actual fastest production MB, that is an Porsche beater, a Ferrari beater and an M5 beater yet a sedate LUXURY car.

Ted

dNA3D

Well said internet_mafia, however do realize that the M5 does fall into a similar category. OK, it doesn't have a automatically folding hardtop roof to get the crowds wowing, but heck, its got Wood Grain, a load of Leather and some pretty fancy gadgets to keep those eyes away from where it should be.

Ted Baldwin, don't be so sure about a souped up E55 beating a Ferrari nor Porsche nor M5. The fastest E55 I know comes from Kleemann, pushing 640HP. RMS can reach that 600HP magical barrier with the M5 too, and that's with a manual so expect RWHP figures to be about the same. Gemballa will extinguish just about any car out there with their GTR750 EVO, which despite its name which is not suggestive of its power output, produces a healthy 850HP, in a manual package and in a body that weighs 1000lbs lighter. Ferrari has the Enzo, which pumps out 660HP and weighs well over 1200lbs lighter than the E55.

But still, for the money, nothing beats a beefed up E55 nor a supercharged M5; though I wish someone would give the E55 a little more macho massaging on the outside.

Ted Baldwin

..........As fas as not knowing physics: I believe the decision to put the supercharged 500HP engine in the E55 was made after the SL55 was already introduced and marketed. Mb's decision to place the same engine in the E55 was probably prompted by BMW's redesign of the M5 to a 10cylinder car with god know how much HP. (I love the HP wars.) In any case, at that time I imagine that the physics you mentioned, dictated that the E55 will be faster than the SL55. Mb decided to dwongrade the HP a bit, but not by much in order not to loose to let the E55 loose out to the RS6's and M5's of the world. I think at this rate, Cadillac's idea of a 1000HP sedan does not look as far fetched as it did last year.

Ted