Fast_Bubba

I was cruising on the freeway @ 70mph on 8/12/03 after 15 minutes of driving when the car began to misfire slightly. I then lost throttle control and the car slowed to 10-15mph. I was able to exit the freeway and use the "limp home" mode to get to the dealer 8 miles away. The all powerful "master computer" has yet to diagnose the problem. You may remember that I had the supercharger/induction system problem last month requiring replacement of both. I am sure it is an electrical problem which has not been a traditional Mercedes Benz forte. Has anyone else had a similar experience. I am lucky that it happened in light traffic while I was in the right lane; I shudder to think what would have happened in heavy traffic or if I were in the center lane nearly motionless beyond a hill with an 18 wheeler coming.

Thanks,
Robert
_____________________
2003 SL55
2002 S430

RJC

Was there a malfunction showing? As if there was it should have memorized a specific code.

Fast_Bubba

ESP and Distronic failure malfunctions on com screen. No reproducible malfunctions initially at the shop. They finally found a loose connector in the throttle electrical system. If memory serves, Richard had a similar problem in his UK car. As this is the number 2 serious problem within the first year, I am considering a shift to a 996 TT X50 (Porsche did well in the three year JD Power data; unfortunately, Mercedes Benz did not.) I have had 6 Mercedes in the last 6 years. Four have had major problems (1999 CLK 430, 1999 E320, 2002 S430 and 2003 SL55). My cars with older designs and engines (1997 E300 and 2000 SL500) did not have any significant operational failures. I have had Fords, Chevrolets, Hondas, VWs and a Lexus and have never experienced the level of failure that I have seen since being able to afford Mercedes. I grew up with the rock solid reliability of the Mercedes of the 70's and 80's; my father was likely saved in a major accident by the safety engineering in an '87 350SDL. I vowed that I would drive them as long as I could afford them. My opinion of their quality is now quite soured; it will take quite a bit to bring me back. I believe Daimler Benz listened too hard to the marketers in the late 80's and 90's and felt that styling and affordability trumped engineering. Well, it looks like they got what they wanted; their cars are beautifully styled and more affordable than ever. Their sales are reaching new highs and they are bringing in younger buyers. It looks, like they leashed their engineers (except the techno guys) and quality assurance staff in the meantime. It saddens me not because people shouldn't be able to have a Mercedes but because a great marque has lessened itself in its core values to achieve that. Well, I've ranted enough

Thanks and Goodnight,
Robert
_____________________________
2003 SL55 (for now)
2002 S430 (wife's car, that's her decision)

RJC

Sadly its true, MB quality has really suffered. I too have owned many different cars most high end, I've had problems with them all, some more than others though. A big part of MB's problem is they keep shipping cars with known TSB's and let the dealer's service dept fix them ratrher than make the updates on the assmbly. line. My new 2004 still has the motor mount issue and that's been listed on a TSB for at least 6 months now! In addition dealer service (at least in my area) is hit or miss. I can understand with you having less problems with earlier Benzes, the previous generation engines (the non-modular ones) cost 50% more to produce than the current ones. Cost savings have really taken a bite out of many things.

I'm not a big fan of the new 996 based cars, more powerful engines and slicker gearboxes yes but the vault like build quality and super sweet air-cooled sounds have gone, supposedly some of that will be back in a year or two with an all new model...we can only hope.

sillydriver

Yikes! Robert, your new problem really strikes home. A few weeks ago my wife and I were returning from Vermont on crowded I93 going 70 MPH in the right lane when I heard a “pop” and lost engine power. We coasted to a stop in the breakdown lane without incident, although if I had been in the left lane (which is where I am 90% of the time) there could have been a major accident. The car was flatbedded back to my Boston-area dealer, where they pronounced it fixed after a week. They told me a fuse had been blown by the failure of one of the ignition coils, which they replaced. I picked the car up on a Monday but on Wednesday of that same week I was driving to the office at full speed down Route 1 when I hear a “pop” and lost power again in exactly the same way: it turned out to be the same fuse. Again, by sheer dumb luck I was in the right lane, which is unusual.

The upshot is that I have just sold my SL55, which I’ve had since last November, back to the dealer for what I consider to be a good price although not the full refund that some of my friends think I should have demanded. I’m now in line for delivery of an 04 SL600 at the end of the coming winter. I figured getting a new and perhaps more advanced car might put a silver lining on this cloud, although reviewing the discussions of Mercedes quality on this board makes me wonder whether I’ve made the right choice. Unfortunately, I can’t think of a better car than the SL given what I want: an ultra-performance luxury convertible with enough toughness and ground clearance to tolerate Boston potholes.

Ted Baldwin

The upshot is that I have just sold my SL55, which I’ve had since last November, back to the dealer for what I consider to be a good price although not the full refund that some of my friends think I should have demanded. I’m now in line for delivery of an 04 SL600 at the end of the coming winter.

............I totally understand your decision to sell your SL55. But your order for an SL600 may not be wise as it relates to reliability. You may wish to talk to MB mechanics first. Except for the ML which in its early stages was a fiasco, the mercedes V12 engines are by far the most problematic. At one time in 2002 there were 900 MB V12's in the shop at the same time for repairs. Now how many MB V12's do you think there were in the USA last year. Probably not much motre than 900.

Ted

blueSL

I think the issue with your SL55 is that the dealer did not get to the bottom of the problem and it just recurred. It all highlights the difficulty of correcting hard-to-diagnose problems in these cars, I've said here before that the complexity of the electronics is running far ahead of the capability of the resources - human and technical - out in the field to fix them. There's no doubt in my mind that the cost of maintaining these cars 5, 7, 10 years down the road is going to be huge.

I agree with Ted that you should not automatically think the SL600 will be any different. They are built on the same line, they just put different cosmetic parts on it and then stuff a different engine and other mechanical bits into the engine bay towards the end of the production. All the basic car, including the electronics which is likely responsible for the majority of problems seen on these cars, is the same.

I'm intrigued to hear there were so many V12s in for repair. Problems here a couple of years back in BMW engines were traced to an intolerance in the metallurgy to the fuel on sale here and it's possible the V12 in the US has some sort of similar problem which we don't see here - my V12 has been never less than 100% reliable.

Fast_Bubba

Well, I guess I'm just a hot head. I have traded in on a somewhat different flavor, a GT2. It will certainly be less luxurious and a little more spicy. Hopefully I will have better luck this time; maybe not. Anyway, as I was cleaning out the trunk, I discovered another fault reported on this board, dampness in the spare tire well (nearly ruining the manuals). I am really sad to have done this, I sincerely liked the car, the engine and the suspension; it simply did not live up to the quality level that Mercedes purports to produce.

Robert
________________________
2003 911 GT2 (Lapiz Blue/Black) as of this week
2002 S430

RJC

It is reported that the 04 GT2 gets a nice power increase, see if your dealer can order the new ECU etc at their cost (providing you want it or care about the extra power)

sillydriver

BlueSL, I agree with you that there is probably some simple underlying cause like a chafed wire. Once it is found and fixed the car will be fine: I’ve had no significant problems with the car otherwise. My selling it is an indictment only of that individual car, not the SL55 model as a whole. Nor do I expect that the average reliability of the SL600 will be greater than the SL55; I recognize that the opposite may well be true. My problem is that the failure mode due to this particular problem on this particular car is intolerably dangerous. Or at least it is for my wife, who has declared she would never ride in it again. If it were not for her opinion and that of other friends I would probably give it another shot. But as she points out, even if my remarkable record of emerging from major car crashes without a scratch is extended (hence the handle “sillydriver”, by the way) the driver who runs into me as I try to cross two lanes of traffic with a dead engine might not be so lucky. It would be one thing if this recurring problem meant the car wouldn’t start in my garage, but the error in this particular game of trial and error is intolerable.

With respect to the SL600, my bet is that by the luck of the draw the one I receive will be one that doesn’t have the chafed wire or its equivalent. I am a little daunted by Ted’s statistic about V12s in the shop. However I assume this refers to all V12s, the majority of which are probably the old 6.0 liter 4-valve unit. Particularly since engines are more likely to end up in the shop as they age, I assume most of those 900 were of the older type. My question is whether anyone has information about the reliability of the new bi-turbo V12? Also, part of my interest in the SL600 stems from reading about treynor’s positive experience tuning the S600 on this board. I’m intrigued by the possibility of adding a Renntech or Brabus ECU to return the engine to the 550 HP Maybach spec.

BlueSL, it’s interesting to see you bring up BMW’s engine problem. I assume you are referring to sulfur in the fuel corroding the linings of the early 4.0 liter V8s. I used to own a 1994 740i whose engine was the type with that problem. I never had trouble with that car, but concern over the issue caused me to sell that car sooner than I otherwise would have.

blueSL

I can sympathise about your wife not wanting to travel in the car; my MSO has not liked travelling in my F355 ever since I stuffed it into the central reservation of a motorway here.

It was the BMW cylinder lining problem I was referring to but I didn't realise it was so long ago. I know it caused many owners to have free-of-charge replacement engines and the problem was put down to the metallurgy of the cylinder liners.

If the old Mercedes V12 (which is what I have) has an above average number of problems in the US, it's probably down to something similar because, other things being equal, reliability should be the same in Europe and the US. Mine has done 72000 miles, uses no oil and thermally is nice and stable.

Problem with that V12 and the new one is that many fewer are made, so there is not the same base of experience, even though the engine will have covered millions of miles under test which will have shown up the problems. I do like the V12 though, really smooth and a real feeling of iron fist in a velvet glove.

bimmerlover

damn, it's a shame that car manufacturers arent up to snufff anymore. a lot of it is due to the increase use of electronics in the cars nowadays. but no sweat


GT2>sl55

GT2 is a lot more rare and faster as well, and if power is ever a problem just take it to RUF and you'll be around 600 hp

please post pics

absent

Previous 600 (in S and CL only) were notorious for problems with their "stupid" economy mode (shutting cylinders when not all needed).The new twinturbos have a really good record so far.(more then a year in production already)

1SICKLEX

Sad to read this about some of my dream cars.

Guest0001

This really is sad.

Goodluck with your Porsche man.

IngenereAMG

I have an '03 that I have had for almost a year and the car hasn't missed a beat. It has been extremely fast and extremely reliable.

After reading all the problems you guys have had I'm a bit scared.

On the other hand I've had Ferraris and Porsches and none of them have had any real problems either.

evanichka

i've had my '03 almost a year, have slightly over 5000miles on it, not major problems except for one of the side lights going out and the wheels making a "clicking" noise which were both fixed in half a day. haven't gotten around to the fuel tank rattle as it doesnt bother me too much with all the music in the car and stuff.

ever since I switched to a new salesperson/mechanic, the service at Theodavies has been great (crossing my fingers).

the only problem i have with the car is under heavy rain (sometimes hawaii gets crazy amount of rain in a short amount of time and then the sun comes up) the car will aqua glide? i dunno if thats the term but it definitely is very unstable when an inch or two of water are under the car.