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I recently picked up a 2005 SL65 with 10k original miles (actually being delivered tomorrow). I have owned a handful of modded SL55's and a Kleemann SL63 but never a 65. The car already has a Renntech ECU and TCU tune on it. However, I'm looking to do a few more upgrades.
1. Exhaust (3" from turbos to tips with 200 cell cats and stock mufflers removed. Also looking at SpeedDriven BOV's just for some sound/noise?)
2. Intakes (what's available for the 05-07 R230 65's?)
3. Cooling (new IC/HE pump, Bosch 010?)
I was reading this thread https://mbworld.org/forums/cl55-amg-...flanges-2.html and found this excerpt interesting "This should be linked to all the other threads lol, I posted results with downpipes with no air boxes as OEM air boxes restrict the air flow with 3 inch downpipes. car went from 540ish rwhp to 634.81 with no boxes, dyno sheet is on the R230 section, but the best run turned out to be a 636 run." Are the stock airboxes really that restrictive? The only two options I see are the Renntech $5k carbon box and Speed Driven Scorpion intakes, anything else out there?
As for cooling what are people doing here? On my 55's I upgraded the pump and added an additional heat exchanger. What is the best pump available to the 65 motors?
As mentioned, I am completely new to the 65. I am looking for some ideas to make a it a little more visceral whilst upping the power at the same time. Looking forward to hearing some feedback!
I recently picked up a 2005 SL65 with 10k original miles (actually being delivered tomorrow). I have owned a handful of modded SL55's and a Kleemann SL63 but never a 65. The car already has a Renntech ECU and TCU tune on it. However, I'm looking to do a few more upgrades.
1. Exhaust (3" from turbos to tips with 200 cell cats and stock mufflers removed. Also looking at SpeedDriven BOV's just for some sound/noise?)
2. Intakes (what's available for the 05-07 R230 65's?)
3. Cooling (new IC/HE pump, Bosch 010?)
I was reading this thread https://mbworld.org/forums/cl55-amg-...flanges-2.html and found this excerpt interesting "This should be linked to all the other threads lol, I posted results with downpipes with no air boxes as OEM air boxes restrict the air flow with 3 inch downpipes. car went from 540ish rwhp to 634.81 with no boxes, dyno sheet is on the R230 section, but the best run turned out to be a 636 run." Are the stock airboxes really that restrictive? The only two options I see are the Renntech $5k carbon box and Speed Driven Scorpion intakes, anything else out there?
As for cooling what are people doing here? On my 55's I upgraded the pump and added an additional heat exchanger. What is the best pump available to the 65 motors?
As mentioned, I am completely new to the 65. I am looking for some ideas to make a it a little more visceral whilst upping the power at the same time. Looking forward to hearing some feedback!
What you're looking to do is almost what my setup will be. I bought my car with the RT tune, cooling and LSD. I'm now going to the SD tunes, downpipes, scorpion intake and BOVs. The rest of my exhaust piping is stock and I did the muffler delete.
I would not do the scorpion intake. Half of It sucks air from the hottest part of the engine bay. It may work great on a dyno but when you close the hood heat soak can happen quickly. The rest of the mods are a good idea.
I would not do the scorpion intake. Half of It sucks air from the hottest part of the engine bay. It may work great on a dyno but when you close the hood heat soak can happen quickly. The rest of the mods are a good idea.
I think you have that backwards bud. How do you heat soak intake air when you are moving 50mph? Or any speed. If you are moving you have an exchange of air happening and you are not sucking air that is as hot as you think. Think about why your radiator doesn't need a fan at speed or why does an air cooled motor get hot parked but won't overheat when you are moving.
No, I don't have it backwards. Funny you mention the radiator. You don't think the air coming off the back of that radiator is hot or the area on top of the engine is hot. How much cool air do you think is running through the engine bay when you are going down the road? The V12 engine bay is an oven. There is a reason the factory pulls air from the front side of the radiator? Cold air intake (CAI) mean anything to you?
No, I don't have it backwards. Funny you mention the radiator. You don't think the air coming off the back of that radiator is hot or the area on top of the engine is hot. How much cool air do you think is running through the engine bay when you are going down the road? The V12 engine bay is an oven. There is a reason the factory pulls air from the front side of the radiator? Cold air intake (CAI) mean anything to you?
BlownV8 is correct. If you spend any time around a V12TT after a little bit of hard driving you can feel the crazy amount of heat generated. (even by the front wheels as it tries to escape from any opening. What you are referring to worked well on a 68 Camaro with no A/C and a ton of space under the hood. Fast forward to these cars we have weather stripping on the hood around the engine with plastic belly pans. You will see there is no space to fit even your wallet, (making it hard to see where all the money goes). Not much air flow going on. I think the benefit from the scorpions comes from getting a larger volume of air into the engine as opposed to relying on the undersized stock air boxes. In the end the cool air will help. It requires less heat absorption from the inter-coolers to get the same IATs, making it slower to heat soak.
What you're looking to do is almost what my setup will be. I bought my car with the RT tune, cooling and LSD. I'm now going to the SD tunes, downpipes, scorpion intake and BOVs. The rest of my exhaust piping is stock and I did the muffler delete.
How do you like the sound after the muffler delete? Any drone in the cabin?
I would not do the scorpion intake. Half of It sucks air from the hottest part of the engine bay. It may work great on a dyno but when you close the hood heat soak can happen quickly. The rest of the mods are a good idea.
It seems like the diameter of the piping within the stock airbox really restricts flow? As mentioned before, I read the thread that I quoted above and the member said that he gained almost 100whp by removing the stock airbox completely. Did this really happen? Can't positively say since I wasn't there but seems possible after looking at pictures of the stock boxes.
If the speed Driven intake is no good and the Renntech carbon airbox is out of the question at $5k, are there no other viable options? I'd love to run 3" plastic piping through the bumper and have the two filters in front of the grill for outside air. However, as I understand it, the 2005-2008 SL65/600 can't do this due to lack of space.
Here's the dyno sheet from that thread that shows a run with and without the stock airboxes.
I know this graph is of a very respected member here and his car is running very well!
But what is interesting here, that the gap between Stock airbox and no airbox is THAT big.
From my experience, I have seen 65 cars on the dyno with downpipes and tune, Stock airbox and Stock turbos that DID approx.600 HP at the wheels = 700 HP at the crank.
563HP at the wheels is normally only with a tune. So this value seems low to me, maybe heatsoak on this run? From my experience after the second or latest at third attempt on the dyno (e.g. because of spinning on the rollers when the torque really kicks in) our cars are not on full power anymore.
Also the graphs are measured in the 3rd Gear which is not the 1:1 Gear.
We measure always in 4th gear, which is 1:1, but obviously very fast on the rollers and need professional cooling on the dyno. I think values in 3rd gear could be different...
Anyway, I think the stock airboxes are very restrictive and a big cold air intake wake the car really up, but if they are worth something like 70 RWP in real life, I doubt this.
Last edited by AMG-Driver; May 20, 2016 at 06:31 AM.
I did, see links below as I was in the process of making my intake setup, I also had it on the dyno, with the filters in place for a more realistic number. The chart above was from V12TTenthusiast. From a performance point of view the intake tubes along with the catless downpipe gave me a 3.5 mph in the 1/4 mile in 20 degree warmer weather.
The intake that RaceHorse fabricated looks to be ideal. However, on the 2005-2007 SL's there is literally no room to run piping to the left/right of the radiator and headlights. I believe that it's entirely possible to do with the 2009-2011 model years though.
It seems that the older SL65's have three options.
Would installing an additional heat exchager be beneficial like it is with the 55k cars? Is the updated Bosch 010 pump the best plug/play pump to run with the m275 cooling system or is there something better?
Does this SL65 belong to anyone on the forum or know what's done to the exhaust?
Found the answer to my question by member sl65amg2008
"I did a muffler delete which keeps the car looking stock. Mufflers and AMG Tips are still intact but gives a great throaty tone. Muffler has been made internally to be a straight pipe. Cost is only the time needed to weld the pipe perforations closed. See the video shot by an unknown person at our Cars and Coffee Meet this weekend which gives a fairly good representation of the sound."
"ECU/TCU tune by OETuning which took the original stock 505 WHP up to 565WHP. Then we added SpeeDrivens Intercoolers, larger heat exchanger, constant running IC pump and muffler delete."
I think you have that backwards bud. How do you heat soak intake air when you are moving 50mph? Or any speed. If you are moving you have an exchange of air happening and you are not sucking air that is as hot as you think. Think about why your radiator doesn't need a fan at speed or why does an air cooled motor get hot parked but won't overheat when you are moving.
Maybe heat soaking isn't the right word, as there's a continuous flow of air through the engine compartment, but the point is that all the air entering the engine compartment passes through the radiator and heat exchangers first.
Apart from the turbos, cat and exhaust, everything under-hood tends to settle at an operating temperature of just over 80 deg C, in other words, the engine coolant temperature. I measured this with temperature sensitive tape at various locations.
Ekselent did a very neat and effective job on his SL600:
Maybe heat soaking isn't the right word, as there's a continuous flow of air through the engine compartment, but the point is that all the air entering the engine compartment passes through the radiator and heat exchangers first.
Apart from the turbos, cat and exhaust, everything under-hood tends to settle at an operating temperature of just over 80 deg C, in other words, the engine coolant temperature. I measured this with temperature sensitive tape at various locations.
Ekselent did a very neat and effective job on his SL600:
Ekselent really did do a an excellent job creating his own intakes. They honestly look like they're ready for mass production. His car is a 2009+ however which has more room in between the radiator and headlights. On the 2005-2007, there is literally no room to do something like this due to the bubble headlights.
To those who have created their own intakes. What are you doing with the stock intake air temperature sensors that are removed from the stock airboxes?
To those who have created their own intakes. What are you doing with the stock intake air temperature sensors that are removed from the stock airboxes?
For info, those sensors are B28/4 and B28/5, and they're pressure sensors, used to prevent turbo over-speeding with blocked air filters.
There's also a pressure sensor between the charge cooler and the throttle (B28/5), and another on the inlet manifold itself (B28/6).
They're held in with two small screws (rather than screwing in themselves, like many other sensors). Therefore they're quite easy to fit, but not many people bother.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; May 29, 2016 at 05:38 AM.
It may be that a longer intake reduces power but the cold air should more than make up for the difference. I'm building a 4" CAI for mine. Will need to remove the vertical braces that are in the way on either side so it will fit.
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). Not much air flow going on. I think the benefit from the scorpions comes from getting a larger volume of air into the engine as opposed to relying on the undersized stock air boxes. In the end the cool air will help. It requires less heat absorption from the inter-coolers to get the same IATs, making it slower to heat soak.
